Need opinions on helm instrumentation for Great Looping.

Here's my helm layout which doesn't contain much. I am going to start the loop this summer. I do have an autopilot and a VHF which are just out of view on the right. I have an auto foghorn and hailer feature on the VHF. I use the fog horn here in Long Island Sound quite often, but I've really only used the hailer to screw around have not had much need for it yet for serious communications.
I don't have AIS , don't use DSC, and my chartplotter is a small Garmin 192C and I just got the additional map cards I need for the areas I plan on cruising this year.
The only other item I might put at the helm is either a laptop or Droid tablet, and a pair of binocs, and of course the paper charts when I have them.
I like it simple also.
I don't plan on taking any fishing gear. I have enough "stuff" on board already.:lol:

I would add radar. You can get a relatively cheap one with plotter for less than $2,500 such as a Garmin 41612 GPSMAP 740S radar pack w/GMR 18 HD (I know you said you were going to buy the 431S). You will be in areas that has fog and thunder storms. Sometimes charts are off or navigation aids have moved. The radar is real time and the chart plotter is based on historical data.

We did the "little" loop in 2000 with Loran, hand held GPS, paper charts, RADAR and depth sounders. Don't put off going because of electronics. I saw folks in aluminum bowriders and tents doing the loop. If you forgot something you can always pull over and take a taxi home and pick it up.

One of the most used pieces of equipment: wipers.

jleonard said:

Here's my helm layout which doesn't contain much. I am going to start the loop this summer. I do have an autopilot and a VHF which are just out of view on the right. I have an auto foghorn and hailer feature on the VHF. I use the fog horn here in Long Island Sound quite often, but I've really only used the hailer to screw around have not had much need for it yet for serious communications.
I don't have AIS , don't use DSC, and my chartplotter is a small Garmin 192C and I just got the additional map cards I need for the areas I plan on cruising this year.
The only other item I might put at the helm is either a laptop or Droid tablet, and a pair of binocs, and of course the paper charts when I have them.
I like it simple also.
I don't plan on taking any fishing gear. I have enough "stuff" on board already.:lol:

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Thanks.That's about what I think I will do.I'm a hands on guy so I don't think I will use an auto pilot.I'll do a couple week trips on some of the larger lakes here before I completely rule that option out.

Larry M said:

I would add radar. You can get a relatively cheap one with plotter for less than $2,500 such as a Garmin 41612 GPSMAP 740S radar pack w/GMR 18 HD (I know you said you were going to buy the 431S). You will be in areas that has fog and thunder storms. Sometimes charts are off or navigation aids have moved. The radar is real time and the chart plotter is based on historical data.

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Thanks.I understand what you mean.I won't pull anchor if there's any threat of fog or questionable weather.A good rain is one thing but storms will be dealt with on anchor.I'll have some quality ground tackle on board.If I feel we maybe having some weather that I'm not comfortable being in,I will dock the boat,and ride it out on land.

alormaria said:

We did the "little" loop in 2000 with Loran, hand held GPS, paper charts, RADAR and depth sounders. Don't put off going because of electronics. I saw folks in aluminum bowriders and tents doing the loop. If you forgot something you can always pull over and take a taxi home and pick it up.

One of the most used pieces of equipment: wipers.

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Thanks.Wipers are one piece of equipment I have been debating on.I like RainX.My boat will have laminated safety glass like an auto windshield.

ben2go said:

I am trying to get an idea of the electrical load of my helm station.There will only be one helm.I may have a rear trolling helm, but I will discuss that later.I will set up the boat with minimum equipment,within reason,and keep things simple with low power consumption.The boat will mainly be used on large lakes around SC,GA,and NC.It will occasional see the ICW and make the Great Loop cruise a few times.I'm mainly concern with being safe on the ICW and Great Loop.I have been researching what others are using for navigation and communication and came up with my minimum set up.I have never been on the ICW or Great Loop,but I have been doing my homework and talking to people that have.

I'm a cruiser and gunkholer that occasionally fishes.

1)Communications-I am use to a basic VHF radio,so I am open to advice.Do I really need AIS,DSC,and hailing features?I will also have a back up floating hand held VHF.I will have a small TV with antenna for weather,plus the weather feature on the VHF.I plan to stay put during rough weather.

2)Navigation-I am almost dead set on getting a Garmin 431S chart plotter with the transducer to provide speed,water temp,and dual beam for depth.I will also have a second depth sounder only for a back up.I have my own Laptop GPS set up for back up navigation.Here's my write up for those interested. USB GPS BU-353 and Earth Bridge - Setup Instructions - Laptop GPS World

I don't think I will have any grounding issues as my draft will be 12 to 16 inches with the I/O up,24 inches max with I/O down.

All of my antenna will be externally mounted on a mount that can be rotated to allow clearance under bridges or other obstacles.

I have seen pics of some members helms.WOW!Most have to much gadgets to distract me.The more "stuff" in front of me,the bigger chance I will become distracted.

Now the rear trolling helm.I'm not 100% sure I am going to set this up as I don't troll for fish much.The plan is/was to add a 9.9hp high thrust kicker, on a bracket, with remote steering on the rear cabin.There, I would mount a portable fish finder.I may still do the 9.9 kicker and rig it to be driven from the helm.This would give me a limp home feature in case the I/O pukes on me.

So what is everyone's opinion on minimum nav and comm gear for safely cruising the Great Loop?

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Worrying that your chartplotter has water temp, speed and dual beam worries me that you understand very little about boating electronics and their value to cruising.

Water temp...ok..so you want to go swimming..stick your foot in or check the local water temps when in the area.

Speed...speed through the water for cruising is worthless...your gs will give you speed of advance...the only useful speed in practical nav.

Dual beam...unless fishing in deep water another useless item unless you are REALLY good and use the differences in the beam responses to help you figure out bottom composition and any layering.

While I not saying you shouldn't do the loop...these are some really rookie issues that I hope you surpass before taking the family on the loop.

psneeld said:

Worrying that your chartplotter has water temp, speed and dual beam worries me that you understand very little about boating electronics and their value to cruising.

Water temp...ok..so you want to go swimming..stick your foot in or check the local water temps when in the area.

Speed...speed through the water for cruising is worthless...your gs will give you speed of advance...the only useful speed in practical nav.

Dual beam...unless fishing in deep water another useless item unless you are REALLY good and use the differences in the beam responses to help you figure out bottom composition and any layering.

While I not saying you shouldn't do the loop...these are some really rookie issues that I hope you surpass before taking the family on the loop.

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I am still researching and studying.I'm not doing any passage making.I know people that have done the loop without any electronics.I'm not that brave so I signed on here.

Water temp really isn't important,I agree.Speed isn't either since I will be at 6 or 7 knots displacement speed.

I do fish but usually 50' and shallower.It would be nice to see basic bottom contours before running aground.With my low draft I don't think that will be a huge issue.On some of the lakes I go on there has been odd shoaling due to the droughts we have and then the sudden heavy rain storm's run off.I've seen the careless speed demons get killed because of this.

What would you use for simple depth sounding and chart plotting?Preferably combined.My current set up works good, but I want redundancy with my GPS and depth.I don't need anything fancy,large,or with a lot of features.

I could put over sized curb feelers on the lower bow for depth and feeling my way through shallow channels.

RainX or no Rainx, if you go boating when you are in a heavy rainstorm, that's a matter of when, not if, you will be cursing the day you didn't install wipers. Even heavy spray wll blind you.

You may not intend to be out but those conditions can occur whether allowed for, intended or not.

Wipers are king and could make the difference between a safe, rainy, sprayed passage, or a not so safe passage.

Put them in, and good ones.

If you don't use them fine but if you need them and don't have them, then what? When the water is thick on the windshield RainX will do no good.

As far as electronics gear, minimum:

-a good mainstation VHF and good antenna properly installed. I believe all of them now come with provision for DSC and have done for some time. Whether you hook it up or not is up to you.
-sounder suitable for the depths you expect
-handheld vhf

The rest of it is optional but very usefull;
-gps
-radar
-autopilot
-Ais
Lots of other stuff of course but depends on what you want.

C lectric said:

RainX or no Rainx, if you go boating when you are in a heavy rainstorm, that's a matter of when, not if, you will be cursing the day you didn't install wipers. Even heavy spray wll blind you.

You may not intend to be out but those conditions can occur whether allowed for, intended or not.

Wipers are king and could make the difference between a safe, rainy, sprayed passage, or a not so safe passage.

Put them in, and good ones.

If you don't use them fine but if you need them and don't have them, then what? When the water is thick on the windshield RainX will do no good.

As far as electronics gear, minimum:

-a good mainstation VHF and good antenna properly installed. I believe all of them now come with provision for DSC and have done for some time. Whether you hook it up or not is up to you.
-sounder suitable for the depths you expect
-handheld vhf

The rest of it is optional but very usefull;
-gps
-radar
-autopilot
-Ais
Lots of other stuff of course but depends on what you want.

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I have already decided on dual wipers with their own motors.That way if one motor fails I can switch them, if need be,until a replacement can be sourced.

It will be a while before I am ready to start buying electronics so I'll be doing some homework and check for new products.

We do'nt even have wipers and even in Alaska rarely want them and almost never need them. Only once needed them and that was in a thick snow storm. I reached out the pilothouse window w a thing like they have in gas stations. Would have just stalled most wipers.

Met a chap before that had thick plastic (Lexan I think) windows and knew he went to Alaska frequently and asked him how he got along w/o wipers and he said he did'nt need them. I thought he was nuts but now I can say the same. I would like to have them though.

Most of the loop is similar to the ICW.

Many nav aids are in sight almost all the time.

A microfiber wipe for sub glasses is about the total bridge requirement.

An Auto pilot is nice for some long stretches , but hardly necessary.

Charts , esp in Canada where the day marks are further apart are required.

If you have an eyeball, you are all set.

FF

Worrying that your chartplotter has water temp, speed and dual beam worries me that you understand very little about boating electronics and their value to cruising.

Water temp...ok..so you want to go swimming..stick your foot in or check the local water temps when in the area.

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I've used water temperature readings often in the Gulf Stream. Higher temperatures in the GS reflect the stronger currents which can be used to your advantage or disadvantage.

Thanks.That's about what I think I will do.I'm a hands on guy so I don't think I will use an auto pilot.I'll do a couple week trips on some of the larger lakes here before I completely rule that option out.

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Just don't be too quick to rule out the value of an autopilot. With a slow boat on a long trip the pilot will relieve you of a lot of "tedium" and stress, will allow you to concentrate more on some other aspects of cruising such as sightseeing, checking the charts, radar if you have it, eating your lunch, etc.
No it is not necessary, but I believe it's one of the best additions I made to my boat. We named the autopilot "Abe" because Abe freed the slaves.

Anode said:

I've used water temperature readings often in the Gulf Stream. Higher temperatures in the GS reflect the stronger currents which can be used to your advantage or disadvantage.

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good point...but gimme a break...listening to the vhf for axis info will be more accurate or go online. just how many times do you ride the gulf stream that that's an issue and is really irrelavant to my post anyway if you understood where I was coming from...but you do make point....

The most important item for a single handed run would be a well mounted OVERSIZED midship cleat.

In a lock its quite easy to operate with one line , and ride the slider up or down.

I have zero ideas how a single-hander could use a lock with out a midship cleat.

FF

jleonard said:

We named the autopilot "Abe" because Abe freed the slaves.

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LOL!!! We adopted the name a friend of ours, who sails in Jamaica, gave her autopilot... Fred (Fu**ing Remarkable Electronic Device)

GonzoF1 said:

LOL!!! We adopted the name a friend of ours, who sails in Jamaica, gave her autopilot... Fred (Fu**ing Remarkable Electronic Device)

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:lol:

"Abe freed the slaves."

But not in the country he was ruler of ,

Only in the country he was attacking.

Anode said:

I've used water temperature readings often in the Gulf Stream. Higher temperatures in the GS reflect the stronger currents which can be used to your advantage or disadvantage.

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Good point.I had been advised of that previously.Thanks for the reassurance.

jleonard said:

Just don't be too quick to rule out the value of an autopilot. With a slow boat on a long trip the pilot will relieve you of a lot of "tedium" and stress, will allow you to concentrate more on some other aspects of cruising such as sightseeing, checking the charts, radar if you have it, eating your lunch, etc.
No it is not necessary, but I believe it's one of the best additions I made to my boat. We named the autopilot "Abe" because Abe freed the slaves.

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I am considering an auto pilot.I looked at a boat that a disgruntled owner was ready to rid himself of.It had everything I need for my boat,plus a few nice additions.As far as auto pilot,I could always say," here honey,take the wheel."LOL

Good ole Abe.Quite a unique fellow to say the least.

FF said:

The most important item for a single handed run would be a well mounted OVERSIZED midship cleat.

In a lock its quite easy to operate with one line , and ride the slider up or down.

I have zero ideas how a single-hander could use a lock with out a midship cleat.

FF

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I don't think I'll ever go solo 100% of the trip.I had planned a midship cleat just outside the helm window and one on the opposite side just in case.

GonzoF1 said:

LOL!!! We adopted the name a friend of ours, who sails in Jamaica, gave her autopilot... Fred (Fu**ing Remarkable Electronic Device)

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That is hilarious.I almost lost my drink through my nose.:lol:

Cap, We did the Great Circle Cruise in five years and over 9,000 miles. On the 3 rd day out you will pull in to the nearest port and install an auto pilot.
I had two of the simplest depth gauges made, and that was all that we ever needed.
Used a laptop for navigation and had two identical GPS units one attached to the computer that was used ONLY for navigation.
No electronics were coupled, all separate. Had a loud hailer and gave it away after over 20 yrs of non use----ever, that is what a VHF is for.
Our experience and as always YMMV
About the cleats, it would be difficult to have too many, if you even think that you may need one in a spot install it.
CCC

charles said:

Cap, We did the Great Circle Cruise in five years and over 9,000 miles. On the 3 rd day out you will pull in to the nearest port and install an auto pilot.
I had two of the simplest depth gauges made, and that was all that we ever needed.
Used a laptop for navigation and had two identical GPS units one attached to the computer that was used ONLY for navigation.
No electronics were coupled, all separate. Had a loud hailer and gave it away after over 20 yrs of non use----ever, that is what a VHF is for.
Our experience and as always YMMV
About the cleats, it would be difficult to have too many, if you even think that you may need one in a spot install it.
CCC

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Cap, I do have one other suggestion.
LIke the Oil discussion, rope is rope, in my opinion, of course it should be all nylon and not a mix, yes there is such. Anyway, since we live in the oil patch I used the commercial style hardware stores that sell to the oilfield.
For lines I always purchased an ENTIRE SPOOL of 5/8 nylon line, this was, a few yrs. ago, always less than $150 for 600 ft. (45ft boat)
Do the math!
I would get a full set of 40 ft dock lines AND an anchor rode of 300 ft from one spool.
Note all of my lines had FOUR FOOT eyes spliced in them, makes docking a pleasure, well almost. Splicing is not hard and saves a tonn of money!
On occasion I would share a spool with a friend if I did not need a new rode to go with the new dock lines.
Again, my experience and YMMV

Cap, We did the Great Circle Cruise in five years and over 9,000 miles. On the 3 rd day out you will pull in to the nearest port and install an auto pilot.
I had two of the simplest depth gauges made, and that was all that we ever needed.
Used a laptop for navigation and had two identical GPS units one attached to the computer that was used ONLY for navigation.
No electronics were coupled, all separate. Had a loud hailer and gave it away after over 20 yrs of non use----ever, that is what a VHF is for.
Our experience and as always YMMV
About the cleats, it would be difficult to have too many, if you even think that you may need one in a spot install it.

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Some of the best advice I've seen on the TF. Are you listening?

jeffnick said:

One More Time Around: Keeping It Simple

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We're from the same area.I book marked your link.

About Abe----Lincoln that is

FF said:

"Abe freed the slaves."

But not in the country he was ruler of ,

Only in the country he was attacking.

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Right on FF, not many are aware of that fact, The Emancipation Proclomation applied ONLY to the states that had seceded from the union.

I learned something recently about Abe, Garibaldi, look him up, the major freedom fighter in South America and the one who unified Italy, offered his services to Abe at the outset of the war of Northern Aggression (Civil War). Aside, how can a "war" be civil but I digress.
Anyway Gary had two demands, the first was that he would be made General of the Armies, Abe went along with this, the second Abe demurred. Gary demanded the IMMEDIATE FREEDOM FOR ALL SLAVES. Abe would not and did not do this, thus the Emancipation Proclomation NOT freeing the slaves in the Northern states.

And the point is??????

Obviously if "Abe" felt it was morally correct AND politically expediant he would have supported it. However remember "Abe" was NOT an abolitionist but rather a realist. He wanted to "preserve" the union and operated accordingly. Certainly does not justify the continuation of slavery as an approved practice if that is what you are implying.

Regards,

RB Cooper

rbcooper said:

And the point is??????

Obviously if "Abe" felt it was morally correct AND politically expediant he would have supported it. However remember "Abe" was NOT an abolitionist but rather a realist. He wanted to "preserve" the union and operated accordingly.

*** Certainly does not justify the continuation of slavery as an approved practice if that is what you are implying.***

Regards,

RB Cooper

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Are you kin the the guy who hijacked the plane and killed himself in the parachute landing?
Gotta be.
I hesitate to question someone who I do not know but that is some wild a__ statement. You have got way too much time on your hands.

ben2go said:

I have seen pics of some members helms.WOW!Most have to much gadgets to distract me.The more "stuff" in front of me,the bigger chance I will become distracted.

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I don't think it's so much the amount of stuff in front of you as it is how you use it. We have two large plotters, one of which is also a radar, a multifunction VHF radio, depth-speed-etc instrument, loud hailer-intercom, and of course the engine instruments in front of us and dont' find it at all distracting. Most of the time we're holding our heading by the compass and using the plotters to determine the correction needed to the compass heading to remain on course. The compass is mounted directly in front of the helm so looking at it pretty much automatically makes you look out the window at the same time.

Now if you get all wrapped up in manipulating the plotters and radar and whatnot that can certainly be distracting and cause you to overlook something outside the boat. Like another boat.

So what is everyone's opinion on minimum nav and comm gear for safely cruising the Great Loop?

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Don't know much about the GL other than it includes rivers, some pretty good size sections of lakes, and the ICW which as I understand it includes some larger bodies of open water along the way.. So I don't think the basic requirements for navigating a boat safely on the loop are much different than the basic requirements for navigating a boat out here.

Based on the 13 years we've been doing the kind of boating we do in the GB, if I was you I would want to be able to "see" when I can't see, communicate, know where I am at all times in relation to everything that isn't water at least ten feet deep, know when the water we are in is shallowing toward that ten foot deep figure, and be able to plot and follow a course reasonably accurately if all the electricicals on the boat stop holding hands.

So that dictates a radar, a VHF radio, a GPS plotter, a depth sounder, paper charts and the tools to use them, and a magnetic compass.

One can go on forever debating the brand name benefits. For me, radar means Furuno, VHF means Icom, and plotter means C-Map (so Furuno or Standard Horizon). But everyone will have their own preferences and favorites-- you'll have to arrive at your own.

Anything in addition is gravy. Two plotters can be nice--- we run each of our plotters in different modes and so get more positioning and steering information than if we had just one. But modern plotters can do so much that having more than one really isn't necessary in my opinon unless you want a backup. Or just like plotters.

AIS can be useful in some areas. I gather the ICW is one of them. We have it on an iPad but so far have not found it to be of much actual navigational value out here. It's interesting, but it's not proven to be necessary.

Multiple VHF radios can be handy but like the plotters, the modern VHF has so many capabilities you can monitor just about everything you need to monitor with just one.

Obvioulsy you don't need any electronics to get safely from Point A to Point B via points C, D, and E. Boaters did just fine before the advent of radar, radios, plotters, and electronic depth sounders. But it would be pretty limiting to boat that way today. So I think you need to make sure you can see what's around you, communicate with the people around you, know where you are, and stay off the bottom. However you choose to set yourself up to do all that is your preference.

"Boaters did just fine before the advent of radar, radios, plotters, and electronic depth sounders. But it would be pretty limiting to boat that way today."

Really? Inshore? how?