Another Client Almost Scammed

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Sidclark

Sidclark

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Messages
215
Location
us
Vessel Name
Jubilee
Vessel Make
Marine Trader 36 Sundeck
I've got a listing that's going to survey, (yep, folks are still buying boats), next week and the owner calls me up in a panic. He tells me he forgot to renew his CG Documentation, but don't worry he just went online and renewed and paid for expedition. Right then I knew what he had done. I asked him what he paid and ready for this? $460 bucks! You got it, he went to one of the look a like Coast Guard documentation web sites. After I scolded him for not calling his broker first, he was able to get a refund and all was well. But they almost got hundreds of dollars from another victim.

If you're renewing or requesting new documentation make sure you're at the right web site. If there's not a .mil in the address, you're at a scammer's site. Also, another little tidbit. If you have your boat listed for sale with a broker, don't spend a dime on it without consulting your broker. :thumb:
 
Sidclark said:
I've got a listing that's going to survey, (yep, folks are still buying boats), next week and the owner calls me up in a panic. He tells me he forgot to renew his CG Documentation, but don't worry he just went online and renewed and paid for expedition. Right then I knew what he had done. I asked him what he paid and ready for this? $460 bucks! You got it, he went to one of the look a like Coast Guard documentation web sites. After I scolded him for not calling his broker first, he was able to get a refund and all was well. But they almost got hundreds of dollars from another victim.

If you're renewing or requesting new documentation make sure you're at the right web site. If there's not a .mil in the address, you're at a scammer's site. Also, another little tidbit. If you have your boat listed for sale with a broker, don't spend a dime on it without consulting your broker. :thumb:
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They aren't scammers.

They are legitimate businesses offering to do something simple for you for an exorbitant amount.

You get the documentation as promised.
 
They are legitimate businesses offering to do something simple for you for an exorbitant amount.

Years ago when paying under the table was in vogue (still lots of that going on around me here on Vancouver Island), some scammers would tell you by paying them under the table you could save lots of money. The problem was they were quoting more for the job than would have been charged if the service had been properly contracted out. The person naively believed the quoted price was below cost.
 
menzies said:
They aren't scammers.

They are legitimate businesses offering to do something simple for you for an exorbitant amount.

You get the documentation as promised.
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Agreed. In a capitalist economy, you're allowed to charge a fee for goods provided and services rendered. You're also allowed to make a profit. Whether the buyer feels the goods and/or services are being provided at a reasonable cost, and whether the vendor is charging 'too much', is strictly a matter of opinion.

It would be a scam if monies were paid, and no goods provided or services rendered. Lacking situational awareness and failing to do ones due diligence is the problem here.
 
You guys are right, scammers is probably not the right description. I still believe they're taking advantage of folks. My client thought it was the correct site because it had .us in the address. In my mind that's kinda deceiving.
 
Sidclark said:
You guys are right, scammers is probably not the right description. I still believe they're taking advantage of folks. My client thought it was the correct site because it had .us in the address. In my mind that's kinda deceiving.
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Yes, they really do a good job of making people believe that they are official - including a neat logo at the top of the letter that looks like a US government logo. Then their wording is vague, with the fact that they are a third party company in very small print.
 
Instead of calling them "scammers" (which, as has been pointed out, they are not either technically or legally), I refer to them as "unscrupulous". They make A LOT of money taking advantage of unsuspecting people.

Sidclark's client was likely able to get a refund if he quickly contested the charge within a certain period of time. I have a friend who fell for the same ruse last year. However, in that particular case they even had the audacity to tack on "late fees" as she had let the documentation lapse. She told me what happened a few days later, and by that time even AmEx would not help her to reverse the charges. So she was out close to $500.
 
Moonfish said:
Instead of calling them "scammers" (which, as has been pointed out, they are not either technically or legally), I refer to them as "unscrupulous". They make A LOT of money taking advantage of unsuspecting people.

Sidclark's client was likely able to get a refund if he quickly contested the charge within a certain period of time. I have a friend who fell for the same ruse last year. However, in that particular case they even had the audacity to tack on "late fees" as she had let the documentation lapse. She told me what happened a few days later, and by that time even AmEx would not help her to reverse the charges. So she was out close to $500.
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He did contest it right after he hung up from me, so that was about a half an hour after the transaction. I advised him to call the credit card company first, but not sure who in the end refunded him. I'll have to call him and find out, I'm curious myself.
 
I agree that it is not technically a scam. But where I see the shadiness is in making it seem like you are on the "official" site (according to what people are saying who have seen it).

I don't mind paying more for something if I have decided it is worth it to me for one reason or another. But that's done out in the open. I know West Marine is West Marine, and I may pay more for the convenience (or not). But I don't think they are someone else.

So, apparently perfectly legal, but to my mind, a bit "oily" due to method used.
 
menzies said:
They aren't scammers.

They are legitimate businesses offering to do something simple for you for an exorbitant amount.

You get the documentation as promised.
Click to expand...

Personally, I think of them as scammers because they do everything they can think of to make themselves look like they are an official governmental agency, if not USCG itself. Maybe fraudsters is a better word.
 
What also concerns me is that the owner was distressed about being late with his documentation. There is no hurry, they won't come looking for you of your paperwork is late, especially nowadays.

pete
 
Simi 60 said:
Scammers giving a refund?
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You'd be surprised what happens with the threat of a significant law suit from an attorney and posting their company's name on a computer site such as this site. And turn their sorry ass into the USCG.
 
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The USCG isn't above shortening your renewal period if you pay early.. Lost two months registration period myself. For renewal, don't do it before six weeks of expiration..
 
menzies said:
Nope.

The USCG are fully aware already.

These are legitimate companies offering a legitimate service, regardless of what we think of them.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/1a25ee8
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They are walking right up to the line. Do you honestly doubt that most of their revenue comes from people who believe they are dealing with USCG, or at least a non-profit gov agency? Do you not recognize their subterfuge? Is that behavior you would engage in? Be proud of? Tell you children that you make money that way? Let's call a spade a spade. These people are despicable crooks (or at least crooked), but caveat emptor.
 
MYTraveler said:
... Let's call a spade a spade. These people are despicable crooks (or at least crooked), but caveat emptor.
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They are, beyond doubt, scammers.
 
MYTraveler said:
They are walking right up to the line. Do you honestly doubt that most of their revenue comes from people who believe they are dealing with USCG, or at least a non-profit gov agency? Do you not recognize their subterfuge? Is that behavior you would engage in? Be proud of? Tell you children that you make money that way? Let's call a spade a spade. These people are despicable crooks (or at least crooked), but caveat emptor.
Click to expand...


BruceK said:
They are, beyond doubt, scammers.
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They can clearly be found - so why haven't they been charged?
 
MYTraveler said:
They are walking right up to the line. Do you honestly doubt that most of their revenue comes from people who believe they are dealing with USCG, or at least a non-profit gov agency? Do you not recognize their subterfuge? Is that behavior you would engage in? Be proud of? Tell you children that you make money that way? Let's call a spade a spade. These people are despicable crooks (or at least crooked), but caveat emptor.
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Exactly.

It's a scam. They're not giving you anything of value, and they're misleading you.

Just because they've hired a team of lawyers to ensure they can get away with it doesn't change the fact that it's a scam.

If it makes you feel any better, call it a "con." To me, same thing.
 
Hey, here's a thought.
Go to the USCG site, buy the 5 year doc and forget about for a long long time SMILE
 
Hard to figure out how people continue to get taken by these “scammer fraudster con-man” bums. We get no fewer than a dozen pieces of “scam mail” every week that some lowlife has spent a lot of time disguising as something official, so it’s not like the cod renewal scam is unique. First clue, if it says “official”, “important”, or “time limited” on the envelope, it’s not, just drop it in the recycling bin on your way back from the mailbox.
 
Y'all do realize, don't you, that you are arguing about the definition of the word "scammer" and not about what these people do. This is strictly a semantic disagreement.


Whatever you want to call it, their approach to business is dishonest. They are very clearly trying to confuse people into believing that they are an official government agency. The fact that so many people ARE confused about that is pretty clear evidence that it is not accidental.


So, maybe what they are doing is not illegal, but it is certainly not very ethical. As another posted intimated, it is not the way that I would ever do business, nor would I be proud to tell my children that this is the sort of business I operate.
 
They are giving you something of value - they fill in the half dozen fields on the USCG site and have the document sent to you. For that they charge anywhere from three times to twenty times the cost if you did it yourself.

So either do it yourself for $25 or be careless and pay through the nose.

Doesn't make it a scam, a con, or illegal in any way.

Now if the USCG were to make it a rule that only the vessel owner can request the document directly, then it becomes illegal.

Wishing it were otherwise does not make it so.
 
menzies said:
They are giving you something of value - they fill in the half dozen fields on the USCG site and have the document sent to you. For that they charge anywhere from three times to twenty times the cost if you did it yourself.

So either do it yourself for $25 or be careless and pay through the nose.

Doesn't make it a scam, a con, or illegal in any way.

Now if the USCG were to make it a rule that only the vessel owner can request the document directly, then it becomes illegal.

Wishing it were otherwise does not make it so.
Click to expand...

You seem to interpret "scam" as meaning an illegal act. Using that definition, you would be correct.

But Merriam-Webster defines scam (in the sense we're using it) as:

a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
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Seems pretty clear to me.

I'd also disagree that they're offering any value. It's no harder to fill in a few fields on the legitimate site than it is to provide that same information to the scammer.

The only way I could argue that there's value is for those people who like to impress others with conspicuous consumption, and brag that they hire people to do menial tasks for them. That's fine, but I think far more people would never intentionally pay for this "service."
 
You folks do realize each year we discuss this topic??
Just get the 5 year ticket.
 
Pete Meisinger said:
What also concerns me is that the owner was distressed about being late with his documentation. There is no hurry, they won't come looking for you of your paperwork is late, especially nowadays.

pete
Click to expand...

Pete, he thought because he was late it might affect the sale of the vessel. We go to survey next week. It doesn't matter if if he was late or not, it won't affect the sale. He didn't know that and panicked.
 
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