NewMemberOldManYachterWannabe

Yeah, all that.

Boats are almost entirely about dreams, right? Some of us are drawn to the water like moths to a flame, to re-use a well-worn adage. For those so drawn, countless subcategories blend together in one of the most complex Venn diagrams known; swimmers, surfers, kayakers, fishers, boaters. Boaters are separated in a myriad of dimensions; fast and slow, power and sail, recreational and liveaboard... All of us dream about being on the water, even when we're on it already. And for most of us, boats are the vehicle to get us there.

I've been around small boats most of my life. In the seventies, someone in our family always had something to use for lake fishing, water skiing, or simply puttering around on the water for the pleasure of it. In later years, my wife and I took up kayaking until back injuries stopped me from being able to tote all the gear hither and yon to get us to the point of being able to enjoy ourselves. I have friends who sail, and while I enjoy spending time on their boats, I have no proficiency at that and don't much care to learn.

Speed is not my thing. I've spent too much time sitting in the open bow of a boat zipping across the waves at 30 mph, busting my kidneys with every slap of the waves and watching the guy at the helm (and it's always a guy, isn't it?) scream "Yee haw!" while looking for the next swell to jump. The older I get, the more I'm looking for a slow, comfortable ride.

In the last couple of years, we have spent a lot of time talking about how we want to live in retirement, which is looming closer all the time. We eagerly consume YouTube channels like Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose and Gone With The Wynns. We love the places they go and the things they do, but watching them has solidified the idea that sailing is not for us. So we took up watching MV Freedom and MV Cassidy (which, due to their purchase of a motorsailer is now Cassidy's Sailing Trawler). We are inveterate vicarious yachters.

However much we watch and try to learn, there are things we can't know just yet. We are hatching a plan (five years in length) to figure them out. Among them is knowing how well my wife will tolerate being at sea. We once went out fishing in a friend's 26' walk around, and she chummed the water the entire time in light swells. I blame it as much on the size of the boat as anything, but that's supposition on my part. Later this year, after everyone can leave their houses again, we intend to charter a (crewed) trawler in the Puget Sound for a couple days to see how it goes.

Elsewhere in this forum, someone pointed out that choosing a boat isn't so much about the brand or features, but about the people who are going to use it. My career as an analyst means that it's natural for me to ask a ton of questions before even thinking I'm in a position to make statements about what we want. That said, we've toured boats at shows, and have some ideas. But I have more questions, and since this post is already getting long, I'll post something else more targeted.

Thank you all for creating this community. It appears to be a good one, and I look forward to being a member.

Cheers.

J.D. Ray
Portland, Oregon, USA

Try to charter a boat, the same brand that holds your interest and pick the brains of the crew.

OldDan1943 said:

Try to charter a boat, the same brand that holds your interest and pick the brains of the crew.

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Yeah, the problem with that is the brand that holds our interest is Nordhavn, and we can't afford one.

Welcome aboard.

Welcome aboard! Ahhh... The slow, comfortable ride. Otherwise known as "trawler speed"!

You will enjoy the journey you are about to embark upon, as even the research stage is fun. Well, it is if you look at it that way. And it appears you do!

Portland, eh? My home town. RCTID!

Sure Nordhavns catch your eye, they catch lots of eyes and dreams. But they are not ideal boats for most boaters. They are built for Blue water crossings. The windows are probably an inch thick, the latches are industrial, the hinges the same.

If you are not sure you will ever be leaving the sight of land or braving 15 foot waves or spending two or three weeks on the high seas, you don't need a Nordhavn. You also don't need a Kady Krogen or a 200 foot yacht.

Match your boat to your needs and style. It will make the selection simpler. Not many boats can match up to a KK or a Nordhavn, not many need to either.

pete

Pete Meisinger said:

Sure Nordhavns catch your eye, they catch lots of eyes and dreams. But they are not ideal boats for most boaters. They are built for Blue water crossings. The windows are probably an inch thick, the latches are industrial, the hinges the same.

If you are not sure you will ever be leaving the sight of land or braving 15 foot waves or spending two or three weeks on the high seas, you don't need a Nordhavn. You also don't need a Kady Krogen or a 200 foot yacht.

Match your boat to your needs and style. It will make the selection simpler. Not many boats can match up to a KK or a Nordhavn, not many need to either.

pete

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Pete, gosh with that attitude, I dont NEED a boat but I have a boat.
So if I cant prove I need a boat, the feds will come and take it a way?
LOL
The feds must realize, I am supporting a very small portion of the marine industry. Without me, maybe 5 first level people would lose income and all they deal with would lose income too

Moonfish said:

You will enjoy the journey you are about to embark upon, as even the research stage is fun. Well, it is if you look at it that way. And it appears you do!

Portland, eh? My home town. RCTID!

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I certainly enjoy the research. But I get lost in all the options. I can't tell what's best for us until I learn a lot more.

Port Townsend, eh? My sister-in-law and her husband live there. Nice town.

At the top of the main page is a magnifying glass search icon. This will allow you to search 10+ years of threads and comments, by keywords.
A good place to start is "boat search 101", which will give you a good overview, some of the subject-specific lingo, and ideas for further search.
Another area of research is into yourselves. What are must haves in your lives, and what is less important.
Do you self-validate, or are the opinions of others more important? This can affect the level of ooh-shiney that you need, or are willing to pay for.
You are in one of the better cruising areas in the world. Will you stay in these waters, or go farther? Cruising with your wife only, with the kids and grands, or with a paid crewman?
All boats are a compromise. Look online at boats, see what catches your eye, and try to figure out for what type of client or purpose the compromises on that boat were made.
Will you do maintenence and repairs yourself, or hire it out? Complexity of systems and engine room size and access can drive these choices.
Is there enough headroom? Walk spaces inside and out? Living aboard for extended periods, or only for short cruises? Water tankage, fuel economy and tankage = range.
Some good books to have, and get started with are Chapmans Piloting and Seamanship, Mid Sized Powerboats by Pascoe, Marine Diesel Engines by Nigel Calder, and Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual, also by Calder.
Welcome, and good luck with your journey.
John

Thanks, I'll definitely check out those resources. But I'm pretty clear on what questions we need to ask ourselves. Some of them I have answers to:

• My wife is more concerned with the "look and feel" of a boat's interior than I am, but it's more about color and fabric choices than anything else, and those can be changed.
• I'm willing to do a certain amount of maintenance myself, but would like to have an understanding of when value proposition says I should hire it out. I'd rather pay someone $100 to do something that takes them an hour rather than spend three hours doing it myself.
• I'm of the opinion that short coastal cruises will be all we ever do. My wife wants to be able to get as far as Hawaii. It's a reasonable ask. We love Hawaii, and airfare for two plus a couple weeks' worth of hotel can pay for a lot of fuel.
• I'm 6'1", so headroom is a concern.
• We have no children, and therefore no grandchildren. We prefer to be able to do things ourselves, but having paid crew on a large boat isn't out of the question.

With all that, my list of questions holds.

Thanks, though.

JD

If you are out in the ocean in Oregon on those long tedious swells, sea sickness is more a reality there then up in the Puget Sound area and north into BC and southern Alaska. The last time I got sea sick a few decades ago was whale watching out of Depot Bay. I to watch most of those blogs on your list.

Don't write off speed. You can always go slow in a fast boat, but you can't go fast on a slow boat. Most of the time I'm hitting trawler speeds on my sedan cruiser, more to mitigate fuel burn. And in most areas I go, slow is the way to do it. But sometimes you might want to make a jump quickly for schedule reasons or weather reasons and its nice to have the option to do a 7 or 8 hour journey in 3 hours.

And I too am one of those moths drawn to the sea even though I have experienced sea sickness, but most often in wretched weather states on board a destroyer.

A new question popped up watching a fast trawler (Benetau 41) review last night: does a semi-displacement or planing hull bob more on the hook than a full displacement hull?

Probably the Fast trawler is a semi-displacement hull, but up and down movement is also determined by weight, hull design etc. But a moderately sized sailboat with a deep keel is going to move around less due to weight and being full displacement. The Beneteau 41 might bob up and down less than a full displacement hull that is significantly lighter.

But if you are thinking about a smoother ride on a full displacement hull, also realize that the fast trawler can get out of the crappy waves faster than the slow boat.

rsn48 said:

But if you are thinking about a smoother ride on a full displacement hull, also realize that the fast trawler can get out of the crappy waves faster than the slow boat.

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Indeed. My primary concern is bobbing on the hook (at anchor). If we're sitting in an anchorage over night, and even the slightest wind swell is going to knock the boat about like we saw in the fast trawler review, I might as well stop looking at boats right now, because my wife won't stand for it:
https://youtu.be/J9kGLdiBl84?t=894

Wait, What?? Hawaii?? I thought you said you couldn't afford a Nordhavn.. For that trip you would need one. Plus if at first glance you don't think you can afford a Nordhavn I can guarantee you can't afford to take a boat to Hawaii.

Tread carefully here, my friend, your plans and dreams may end up in a thread I just started, something about Flakes and Dreamers...

pete

Thanks, but moving my thread to the "point and laugh" section probably isn't necessary.

As mentioned above--going to Hawaii from Portland is WAY different than coastal cruising.
I was where you are a number of years ago--went to boat shows (Seattle a few times), walked the docks, Trawler Fest was better back then. Read books, seminars at the boat shows, bought cruise guides (Pacific NW)

I chartered a boat from Desolation Sound yacht charters for 2 weeks (I would also recommend Anacortes Yacht charters as an option) to make sure my wife & I could be in those close quarters for 2 weeks and both of us survive (we did fine).. I had a captain for the first two days then dropped him off. We had a great time.


Then the search for THE BOAT was on. Yachtworld and the internet were my friend. At first I knew we needed either a Nordhavn or a KK--then I saw the premium price they commanded and I more critically evaluated my mission---I didn't need one of those boats (actually after shopping I found many others I liked better) to safely and comfortably cruise from Seattle to Glacier Bay and back (Inside Passage).


We made a few offers, didn't work out, didn't survey the way I wanted, etc then wew found the boat we "Needed".
Was the boat trouble free--Hell NO! BUT--it carried us safely & comfortably on our mission--Inside Paassage-coastal cruising-mostly protected waters.


Most of us "want" a Nordhavn but don't really "need" a Nordhavn and IMO--it is not the most comfortable boat out there for the money.


Enjoy the Search--it's part of the fun.


Ken

That's pretty much the progression I expect from us. BTW, if we ever do make Hawaii (unlikely given the time to get there), we'd go down to San Diego and over, shortening the shore-to-shore trip length. Personally I don't care for the idea. It's not the time at sea, but the distance from solid ground in the event something goes awry.

I am agreeing with the others - charter a boat first and see what you like and what you don't like. Charter another one and add those likes and dislikes to the list.

We have a friend who is a naval architect and we talked to him about designing a boat, specifically for the Pacific NW. He first made us create a list of exactly what we wanted to do with the boat. A few items from the list: (a) we saw it as a platform to take us exploring so we wanted a good skiff and easy logistics with the skiff [lots of shore trips so skiff easily stowed and accessed], (b) we wanted to go out for weeks w/o support [excellent ground tackle; good water supply] and (c) we wanted to travel w two guests occasionally. I still have the plans he drew for us although we never built his design. But the two boats we have had since are pretty close.

You really need to get out on the water to see how much "rolling" you can tolerate. Some like a bit of motion at anchor and some don't like any. You can't pin these things down from reading others' experiences.

Getting on the water is one of our earliest priorities. While we can't do that, we're doing all the reading and researching we can.

Brentwood Bay? I have three cousins who live on the island. One in Campbell River, another in Victoria, and a third in Langford. Lots of other cousins up in the BC interior country (Burns Lake) and several in the Vernon/Salmon Arm region.

As previously mentioned Desolation Sound charters operates out of Comox on the Island. There is also Island Cruising Charters in Sidney but they may be just sailboats. The San Juan’s or Gulf Island are a very forgiving place to start. Good luck.

JD Ray said:

Yeah, the problem with that is the brand that holds our interest is Nordhavn, and we can't afford one.

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I had a hydraulic stabilized N46. I was slowly bringing back to the "once was" until the yard dropped it, creating a LARGE hole in the side resulting in constructive loss.
Basically, at the time, all it needed was a paint job. Mechanically and the nav. electronics, it was updated and fit as a fiddle. I have conveniently forgotten how much it took it to bring it to that level. The nav electronics were partially updated and the entire boat was ready for a long cruise with the exception of topping off the fuel tanks with an additional 200 gallons of fuel. It carried 1000 gallons of fuel. Naturally the water tanks would need to be topped off too.
The 46ft boat was the perfect design.

JD Ray said:

Yeah, the problem with that is the brand that holds our interest is Nordhavn, and we can't afford one.

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Have a look at the Selene brand, as good as Nordhavn, a bit less luxury but much more affordable...

JD Ray said:

Indeed. My primary concern is bobbing on the hook (at anchor). If we're sitting in an anchorage over night, and even the slightest wind swell is going to knock the boat about like we saw in the fast trawler review, I might as well stop looking at boats right now, because my wife won't stand for it:
https://youtu.be/J9kGLdiBl84?t=894

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Zero. Speed stabilizers are pretty efficient at anchor being fins or Gyro. I have ABT STAR stabilizers on my boat and I can confirm that my wife really enjoys them...

JD Ray said:

there are things we can't know just yet. We are hatching a plan (five years in length) to figure them out. Among them is knowing how well my wife will tolerate being at sea.

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A comment on sea sickness. I suffer readily, but I develop a strong immunity when I use the boat regularly. And many suffers benefit greatly from various preventative medications (not me -- despite wearing Scopalamine patches for the previous 24 hours, I once got seasick while scuba diving 60' below the surface watching seaweed undulate with the current). There are probably statistics easily available, but anecdotally at least, it seems that no one can stay sick for more than a week or so -- after that they have their sea legs. So, my advice is not to let a little sea sickness interfere with your plans.

MYTraveler said:

A comment on sea sickness. I suffer readily, but I develop a strong immunity when I use the boat regularly. And many suffers benefit greatly from various preventative medications (not me -- despite wearing Scopalamine patches for the previous 24 hours, I once got seasick while scuba diving 60' below the surface watching seaweed undulate with the current). There are probably statistics easily available, but anecdotally at least, it seems that no one can stay sick for more than a week or so -- after that they have their sea legs. So, my advice is not to let a little sea sickness interfere with your plans.

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You are right, I do also suffer from seasickness if I haven’t been on the boat for a while (here in Thailand we do have ‘magic pills’ very efficient to prevent it) but after a day or two all is back to normal

Just to put in perspective what you want. Sometimes I find it helpful to exaggerate the problem to see what you are dealing with.

Let's say you are purchasing an aircraft to fly around North America within some "reasonable" distance before refilling the tank. Then to add to the problem, you then decide the aircraft should not only be able to fly from Portland Oregon to most places in North America, but not you want to fly to London as well. Now you have shifted the whole emphasis totally on the aircraft, both size and fuel tanks and certifications, but you have increased the size of your cheques as well.

The jump to Hawaii adds a host of problems you haven't even thought about, over and above the obvious of fuel tank size, smaller emergency engine should your main engine conk out, a much more stringent certification requirement to humour the insurance companies.

I would suggest you limit your cruising territory to Washington, BC and southern Alaska. Just in BC, leaving Washington and Alaska out of the equation there is more to experience than you might think. The coast line as the crow flies is roughly 600 miles from the WA border to the AK border. But the actual coast line is 25,000 miles. Canada has the largest coast line in the world, and BC accounts for a significant whack of it.

Here is a video to wet your taste and I'd leave your boat somewhere in Puget Sound or an area like Anacortes (hard to find moorage) or Bellingham or Point Roberts. At the marina I'm at in Comox BC, 10 -15 % of all boats moored there are owned by folks who live in Alberta.

And now for a tease:

Fly to Hawaii. I've made the trip several times in ships and boats. It's a long, tedious trip in anything but a destroyer. Slips are expensive, fuel is expensive, and there's many places you can't anchor.

Sometimes there's a huge swell where you're in the trough most of the way. And that's not counting bad weather. Then when you get to Hawaii, it's crowded.

How many people here have actually been to Hawaii on a boat?
How about a boat smaller than 100'?
75'
65'

55'



I've done some tug work back in the 90's with a few trips to Hawaii, Alaska, San Diego.

The open Ocean is a lot of fun for the fist 12 hours... then the rest of the trip just sucks getting the crap kicked out of you when its not nice out.


And far as Hawaii goes, you can have it, way to many people. You see a lot of sail boaters that always wanted to sail to Hawaii... put the boat up for sale as soon as they get there and catch the first flight home.

Been there many times on 500 plus ft. Ships. I would have done it on a small boat if I was younger as a bucket list. Zero interest now on a smaller boat. No thank you.

Life is short, and I respect people who do it, but they are generally making it happen through years of time on the water and prep, and they are generally not posting about it on Internet forums. You read about it after they did it.

I have seen people incapacitated for days on end from severe sea sickness when I worked on open party and charter fishing boats as a kid, and on ships. It works out if other crew are there to to clean up their mess, bring them water, and look out for their general safety. Play the same scenario out solo, or with a significant other who also may be sick...

These postings about newbies wanting to cross oceans are ridiculous. Figure out the basics, get on the water, take classes, study, learn to troubleshoot and fix marine systems, find out if you don’t get sick by time on the water, how much rolling you can tolerate for days on end, and then when you have the basic credentials and water time start posting about your desires to cross oceans.

In the mean time, ask away about basic boat subjects, study, charter some boats, and continue to follow your dreams. There are lots of knowledgeable people on here that can provide guidance.