Can the Cruise Industry survive ?

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RE: Bailout of cruise lines:

Not a penny unless they can show a history of paying substantial U.S. taxes. Your vessel registered in Monrovia, Panama, Georgetown? That's where you apply for government assistance.

Goes for other industries also.
 
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AlaskaProf said:
RE: Bailout of cruise lines:

Not a penny unless they can show a history of paying substantial U.S. taxes. Your vessel registered in Monrovia, Panama, Georgetown? That's where you apply for government assistance.

Goes for other industries also.
Click to expand...

The perfect way to explain it.

I feel the same way about SSI. If one has never worked and paid taxes in the US, why should one expect to get tax payers' money for retirement and health care.
 

​
Saturday, as we were flying out of Puerto Vallarta, two very large vessels, Rotterdam and Norwegian Dream discharged about 3,000 unscreened passengers to find their own way home.


Vessels are still at dockside in P.V. Mexican Navy is patrolling the docks to assure that crew remain aboard. Local periodico says as a "humanitarian gesture" they are being allowed to remain until they can return to their home port.


Do these vessels even have a "home port"? Rotterdam flies the Dutch flag, but is there an actual facility where all the Holland-America vessels are docked?
 
AlaskaProf said:

​
Saturday, as we were flying out of Puerto Vallarta, two very large vessels, Rotterdam and Norwegian Dream discharged about 3,000 unscreened passengers to find their own way home.


Vessels are still at dockside in P.V. Mexican Navy is patrolling the docks to assure that crew remain aboard. Local periodico says as a "humanitarian gesture" they are being allowed to remain until they can return to their home port.


Do these vessels even have a "home port"? Rotterdam flies the Dutch flag, but is there an actual facility where all the Holland-America vessels are docked?
Click to expand...

By home port in this case, they mean where they normally dock, where they came from and//or were destined to go. Hence the dozens of ships currently anchored between South Florida and the Bahamas.
 
Hmmmm, their home port? Interesting question.... what's written on the stern?
 
OldDan1943 said:
Hmmmm, their home port? Interesting question.... what's written on the stern?
Click to expand...

As we clearly all know, "home port" on documentation and on the stern has nothing to do with where the boat normally docks.
 
greetings,
I'm guessing the ships registered under the Dutch flag would be home ported at one of the islands in the Dutch West Indies. Yes, registered in Rotterdam but ported on this side of the pond.
 
BandB said:
I never operated and still don't as my primary obligation being strictly to the shareholders, but I always worked for a company where the shareholders knew we'd fulfill our obligations to employees and customers and vendors. I was never in a position in which I had to choose. Had I been forced, I likely would have left far sooner. Today as the owners, we have no other shareholders. I can assure you that right now all the obligations weigh heavily, but it's our money to decide to spend or give.



In a major company, just like the nation, there isn't unlimited cash and often they can't do what they'd like for employees. Right now, some companies are making incredible commitments and taking great steps to help employees. Others can't do the same as they're facing the possibility of going out of business anyway. Sadly, many companies are so debt ridden today, that being down even 30 days puts them at serious risk of bankruptcy. I'm sure some of their management is callous, but I'm sure there are others who wish they could help employees, but just can't. There's a length of time that if this exceeds without help coming, we'll have to face impossible decisions but thankfully we're not there yet so I can feel a little of what they are facing. I can't imagine being in a position as a CEO in which you're just unable to continue to pay employees. I see companies like Sears, Penney, Macy's and many others that if they're down for 30 days without major help will be in bankruptcy. Look at a business like Gamestop, hanging by a thread.
Click to expand...



Gamestop is nearly dead. In November they closed a deal to sell an affiliate for $8 million, including at least $3 million of inventory. The deal was a note financed by Gamestop, not cash. The affiliate does over $90 million a year of revenue. They invested many times the sale price in acquisitions and additional stores.

The acquiring company, to absolutely nobody’s surprise, defaulted on their first note payment. Long story short, Gamestop ended up agreeing to reduce the sale price to $1 million in two payments.

The acquiring company, publicly traded, reported a negative net worth on their last several quarterly filings, thus the lack of surprise. Look up some of the details. It’s fascinating reading. Sorry, I’m off topic again...
 
mcboatface said:
Gamestop is nearly dead. In November they closed a deal to sell an affiliate for $8 million, including at least $3 million of inventory. The deal was a note financed by Gamestop, not cash. The affiliate does over $90 million a year of revenue. They invested many times the sale price in acquisitions and additional stores.

The acquiring company, to absolutely nobody’s surprise, defaulted on their first note payment. Long story short, Gamestop ended up agreeing to reduce the sale price to $1 million in two payments.

The acquiring company, publicly traded, reported a negative net worth on their last several quarterly filings, thus the lack of surprise. Look up some of the details. It’s fascinating reading. Sorry, I’m off topic again...
Click to expand...

Yes, Gamestop has run it's course and no bailout will change that although one might lengthen the time until their ultimate demise.
 
catalinajack said:
Obesity, greed, and alcoholism. Let me see then. Would you be advocating the elimination of Las Vegas?
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And parasitism? Not a bad idea. Our casinos have just been forced to close under CV control measures, I weep not for them.
Celebrity has just run up the white flag and cancelled our April cruise. They will give 125% future credit or 100% refund, though the refund comes in 2 tranches,I`m a touch nervous about that part, but refund it is.
CMV`s venerable Vasco Da Gama(ex P&O ex HAL) is approaching Western Australia in some distress, 500 Aussies on board will be quarantined for 14 days on Rottnest Island near Perth. No idea what happens to the remainder. Hope the resident quokkas(see below) will be ok. After 4 cruise ships dumping CV infected pax in Sydney last week in response to special dispensation, we are toughening our position. I just heard there is another ship with 25CV cases off WA asking for help. No Aussies onboard but I`m sure we`ll do what we can.
Here`s a quokka photographed with Chris Hemsworth. That`s the quokka on the left.(Ah, memories of the time I showed someone a pic of my ex wife( who was present) with a baby elephant, while helpfully observing the elephant was on the left :D).

53197051_299728530692890_6746381849213068523_n.jpg
 
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Soo-Valley said:
Bruce, did the firefighters take their free cruise before this **** storm.
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They did, early March, I`ve heard nothing about CV issues. It was just after ships were diverted from Asia to Australia.
 
BruceK said:
And parasitism? Not a bad idea. Our casinos have just been forced to close under CV control measures, I weep not for them.
Celebrity has just run up the white flag and cancelled our April cruise. They will give 125% future credit or 100% refund, though the refund comes in 2 tranches,I`m a touch nervous about that part, but refund it is.
CMV`s venerable Vasco Da Gama(ex P&O ex HAL) is approaching Western Australia in some distress, 500 Aussies on board will be quarantined for 14 days on Rottnest Island near Perth. No idea what happens to the remainder. Hope the resident quokkas will be ok. After 4 cruise ships dumping CV infected pax in Sydney last week in response to special dispensation, we are toughening our position.
Here`s a quokka photographed with Chris Hemsworth. That`s the quokka on the left.
Click to expand...

I think 'in response to special dispensation' is a generous, but incomplete description of the debacle.

Before arrival the health officials on the Ruby Princess reported to NSW authorities a number of passengers with 'flu like symptoms' who tested negative for influenza. Gosh, I wonder what it might be then? DUH!

So, NSW Health decided to provide some covid-19 swabs to the ship, but still allowed everyone to get off straightway and wander around at will. Some time later, I think the following day, after some positives in the test results, passengers were contacted and asked to self-quarantine for 14 days. Yet by then passengers had travelled all over the place via local public transport and aeroplanes. Infectious passengers subsequently confirmed to have covid-19 ended up in all corners of Australia, and even to Utah in the US.

And NSW Health did the same to 3 other ships as well! Although fortunately those ships arrived with smaller numbers of infected pax.

The nicest thing I can say about NSW Health is that they made a serious mistake.
 
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Off $ubject: BUT - VERY IMPORTANT!!

Evidently at or around 2 AM EDT: U.$. $enate pa$$ed a Two [2] Trillion dollar infu$ion into the American economy.

This $hould at least temporarily $tabilize the U.$. economy and may also a$$i$t in $ome item$ having to do with foreign nation'$ economie$. :thumb:

EDIT: Woops, It seams I was mislead by a news report. U.S. Senate has not actually signed the Two Trillion Dollar Economic Infusion papers yet... but appear to be very close to agreement needs for doing so. When they sign [hopefully within the next 24 hrs.] then as I mentioned above stands in place.

It's midnight now, way past my usual bed time - Good Night! and Good Luck!!
 
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BruceK said:
I showed someone a pic of my ex wife( who was present) with a baby elephant, while helpfully observing the elephant was on the left :D).

Lucky you are not dyslexic Bruce.
Click to expand...
 
Art said:
Evidently at or around 2 AM EDT: U.$. $enate pa$$ed a Two [2] Trillion dollar infu$ion into the American economy.
Click to expand...

I'm anxious to hear what "restrictions" are being placed on the loans. The fine print will be where the pork and give-aways are.

But to the topic of this thread, will there be any cruise line bail-outs or special assistance? As of the last time I checked, that level of detail wasn't available yet.
 
CaptTom said:
I'm anxious to hear what "restrictions" are being placed on the loans. The fine print will be where the pork and give-aways are.

But to the topic of this thread, will there be any cruise line bail-outs or special assistance? As of the last time I checked, that level of detail wasn't available yet.
Click to expand...

Everyone expecting everything right now and when the details are released at least half will be disappointed. It's like Mnuchin promising the individual checks in two weeks. We've been through this before and it won't happen in two weeks, four weeks would be miraculous and 5 to 6 more likely. Complicated by the fact we're in tax season but only about 40% of returns filed so some based on 2019 returns and some off 2018. Perhaps safe to use bank information from 2019 returns, but from 2018 I wouldn't be so quick.

No business yet knows whether they'll benefit or not, they only know some businesses may. Surely a lot should with the amount of money in it, but which ones and how. Perhaps more information later in the week. Senate to pass today hopefully and house to try tomorrow. Pelosi wanted to try by unanimous consent but has been warned that on principle at least one Republican will block that, based on having not had a chance to read the entire bill, which of course is reasonable although we know very few will do so.

The devils in the details and in this case knowing the impact is. I've followed every piece of available information and have no idea at this point whether it will benefit our company or our employees or to what degree. Just hopeful.
 
Won't happen until after the filing season which has been extended until 7/15. Simply put, IRS cannot do this easily even outside the filing season. It's something I know a lot about. The munchkin can demand all he wants but, to use an analogy, a bridge over the Hudson cannot be built in six months. The amount of programming and testing is substantial and quite complex.
BandB said:
Everyone expecting everything right now and when the details are released at least half will be disappointed. It's like Mnuchin promising the individual checks in two weeks. We've been through this before and it won't happen in two weeks, four weeks would be miraculous and 5 to 6 more likely. Complicated by the fact we're in tax season but only about 40% of returns filed so some based on 2019 returns and some off 2018. Perhaps safe to use bank information from 2019 returns, but from 2018 I wouldn't be so quick.

No business yet knows whether they'll benefit or not, they only know some businesses may. Surely a lot should with the amount of money in it, but which ones and how. Perhaps more information later in the week. Senate to pass today hopefully and house to try tomorrow. Pelosi wanted to try by unanimous consent but has been warned that on principle at least one Republican will block that, based on having not had a chance to read the entire bill, which of course is reasonable although we know very few will do so.

The devils in the details and in this case knowing the impact is. I've followed every piece of available information and have no idea at this point whether it will benefit our company or our employees or to what degree. Just hopeful.
Click to expand...
 
True about the Erie canal.
All can say is that the Erie canal was turning a considerable a profit before it was even finished end to end. Also I'm pretty sure in upstate New York a drought year still has way more rain than the wettest year in Las Vegas so water for the Eire canal is a considerably less rare resource than water for Las Vegas.

Now a days maintenance of the Erie canal may be a money loser but a lot of people besides trawlers get to use it at minimal cost compared to Las Vegas.

Subsidizing parks is different than subsidizing casinos.
I vote for the parks but I spend more time there.
Besides they can build casinos in places that need much less support.
 
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It is still a commercial canal because one or two ship things via the Erie. There is an economy of shops etc next to the canal.
Close the Erie, and the local economy will suffer.
 
Back to the Cruise Industry for a moment.

The Florida Attorney General is investigating allegations that Norwegian Cruise Line gave "misleading and potentially dangerous sales pitches" to customers that downplayed the risks of Coronavirus. Seems some internal emails revealed what they were encouraging their sales force to say including things like the only thing you have to worry about is do you have your sunscreen.

Norwegian also said they planned to resume cruises on April 12.
 
BandB said:
Back to the Cruise Industry for a moment.

The Florida Attorney General is investigating allegations that Norwegian Cruise Line gave "misleading and potentially dangerous sales pitches" to customers that downplayed the risks of Coronavirus. Seems some internal emails revealed what they were encouraging their sales force to say including things like the only thing you have to worry about is do you have your sunscreen.

Norwegian also said they planned to resume cruises on April 12.
Click to expand...
Norwegian`s defense could rely on President Trump`s advice that CV was less troublesome than flu,could be a small problem, etc. Even now he expects it can all be over in weeks not months. By Easter, which fits nicely with Norwegian`s resumption date. He`s President of the USA, he must know best.
Norwegian could rely on that. I wish I could.
 
Maybe it is time for the cruise industry to realize the Captain of the Port has teeth and can refuse entry of a cruise ship or any ship into any harbor. Miami and Ft Lauderdale are VERY important to the cruise industry.... Close these ports to a specific ship can ruin that ship's ability to produce revenue.
The cruise industry MUST learn to comply to any and all regulations.
Sure, the ship/cruise line can and no doubt will sue the port but, that same port authority can force the ship to anchor out until the case is settle in the court.
The ship needs the port far more than the port needs the the ship.
The Captain of the port has closed Ft Lauderdale and Miami during heavy weather, to protect the port. They can close the port because of pretty much anything. Send it to the court..... it can take a long time to get it through the court. There are many many reasons to close a port to a ship. So many things to inspect and verify before the ship is allowed into port. Have the crew physically lay out the PFDs out to be counted is but one reason. Yea, it will take time to count them. Let's make the ship's captain physically collect and take to custom's the passports of the passenger's and the crew's papers... Then there is the fresh fruit and meat that needs to be inspected. So many regulations have, in the past, been 'rubber stamped' .... Now, let's follow the letter of the law.
Yup, it will destroy some local businesses but, in the interest of protection the port .... just too daymned bad. The cruise industry is not too big to fail.
Even I cannot fathom the enforcement of every piece of luggage must be inspected and the owner interviewed. This would result in a huge slow down of passengers disembarking. This would result in "no one wanting to book passage on the offending ship."
 
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Or the cruise line could offer the local officials a small consulting or lobbying fee after they retire. Remember it is only a bribe if it is small unmarked bills in a paper bag.

The question is who are our leaders looking out for!
Does not seem they are doing their job looking out for the people who pay their salary.
 
So, has anyone read all 880 pages of the stimulus bill yet?

I couldn't find any specific reference to cruise lines, but then again, I assume it would be hidden under some different terminology so my quick searches wouldn't find it.

Maybe someone who knows more about how these things work can figure it out...
 
CaptTom said:
So, has anyone read all 880 pages of the stimulus bill yet?

I couldn't find any specific reference to cruise lines, but then again, I assume it would be hidden under some different terminology so my quick searches wouldn't find it.

Maybe someone who knows more about how these things work can figure it out...
Click to expand...
Naw, I just read the summary only 22 pages
GEOSPATIAL RESEARCH, ANALYSIS, AND SERVICES PROGRAM: VESSEL SANITATION
PROGRAM – $7.5 million to expand mapping efforts of coronavirus infection hot spots, including for
cruise ships, and to provide technical assistance to support the capacity of the cruise line industry to address
environmental health concerns associated with coronavirus.
Click to expand...
 
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