1980 Chris Craft 410 Commander

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Chris Craft

oak_box said:
I'm looking at buying a 1980 Chris Craft 410 Commander....

Nope, she's not a trawler, though the interior accommodations are as good as I've seen on most of the trawlers that I've looked at (in the 40' range).

To that end, does anyone know if a CC 410 Commander will run as nicely as I would hope / expect at "trawler speeds"?

This one has been in a covered slip on fresh water for at least the last 20 years, and came from a fresh water lake before that. That part is good. Unfortunately, at this point, we have a zebra muscle infestation on Lake Travis - so the entire bottom is most likely covered. Last bottom job was maybe 12 years ago?

In general, the boat appears to be in good condition (I have not had a survey <yet>), other than everything being rather dated, and obviously not much care in recent years.

Given the zebra muscle and growth issue, it will not be practical to do a realistic inspection of the bottom as part of the survey. I won't really know what I'm dealing with until the boat has been hauled, cleaned, and given a new bottom job, with whatever fiberglass repair is required. So this is a known HUGE risk.

I have a mechanic friend looking at the engines with me (gas Marine Power 454's). I won't buy the boat if we can't get the engines to start. Assuming we get the engines to start, I'm still allowing for a LOT of work there (carbs, full tune up, possible head work on one side).

Bottom line - it's a project boat, and I fully understand that. However, the price is right, and cheap enough that I can afford to put a significant amount of $$ into the bottom, engines, AC, and other random stuff (possibly replacing holding tank, water tanks, or fuel tanks? Bilge pumps, heads?)

Still trying to figure out if I'm crazy for jumping into this...
I do kinda' like messing around with old boats, and seem to fall into project boats. This one has a LOT of potential to be a nice boat if restored to reliable operation.

I really like the full walk around master bed, separate showers in the heads, lots of storage space, decent galley layout, lots of open space in the main salon and on the upper deck, and that it's a classic boat. I found the Chris Craft Command Club web page - and it has a TREMENDOUS amount of information about this family of boats, and lots of still active owners that know lots of good stuff. So that is really helpful too.

Another factor is that it's already on my lake. I had been looking at trawlers in the Galveston area. To get one hauled up to Austin would cost between $10-20K, as the flybridge would have to be removed, then re-assembled here. Most of the trawlers with similar live-aboard style layouts would also need unknown levels of repairs. So again, the cheap price allows the possibility to fix up / replace a lot of stuff, without spending a lot of $$ to get it here.

Again, it's not a trawler, but hopefully will run rather nicely at trawler speeds. And signing up for a project like this just may make me crazy enough to belong in this group...
Click to expand...

It's a great boat. I had friends that had one. But if you are looking at one with the twin 454 gas engines then you should seriously look at re powering with diesel, which would be a huge expense. However, you'll eat up that expense in no time trying to run with those gas engines.
 
For better or for worse - I pulled the trigger, and the 1980 Chris Craft 410 Commander is mine.

I spent a little time Friday putting a dent in pulling old stuff off the boat. Then, my mechanic buddy came and pulled the carburetors. Rebuilding those was the project for today. Will see how that turned out tomorrow. Lots and lots of projects ahead of me!

The depth finder is a Lowrance 2260C - with the concentric rings that you have to add up. I'm wondering if I should donate it to a museum? If anyone would like to offer me an insane amount of money for this treasure - I would be willing to part with it and put the proceeds to the insanely expensive bottom work that is on the short list! <grin>
 
Congrats on your new boat. I really like the style of the flushdecks. Have fun!
 
Congratulations! Be aware when you start touching wiring, Chris Craft did some weird stuff. Seeing black as + and white as ground in 12v circuits is common.
 
Congratulations on the purchase. For sure you will love the sound of those big blocks, the cost of satisfying their thirst , not so much. There is some good advice in this thread but the decision is yours.

How many hours on the 454's, that will be the deciding factor for the short term.

pete
 
Since you have already started o the Carbs this might be of no use. You could look at fuel injection. Some of the throttle body type bolt ons are fairly reasonable. If you plan on running at lower speeds, jet your primaries for the RPM you plan to run and this might keep your fuel bill down some. FI with exhaust gas sensors can accomplish the same for all rpm's. Lean is great for fuel efficiency. Too lean is great for engine failure. Fat is safe. Lean is dangerous, but it delivers the best HP and fuel mileage right up until you melt down. I wonder if there are any mobile boat dyne's. I think the closest you could hope for is some kind of exhaust gas sensors. Good luck.
 
I've considered swapping to EFI (probably the Holley Sniper setup) on my 454s, but I figure I'd probably spend $1500 per engine doing it by the time I'm all said and done. And unless I also ditch the Thunderbolt IV ignitions and go for full computerized spark control, I probably won't save enough fuel to justify the cost and effort, as the big efficiency gain at low speeds would come from running more timing at low rpm when the load is light enough.

For now, the quadrajets work pretty well as-is. But I might re-assess that next time I need to do exhaust risers, etc. as that would be a good time to work O2 sensors into the setup and go EFI.

For oak_box, it probably makes sense to get things running properly with the existing setup, get the whole boat well sorted and then look at upgrades like EFI.
 
I think the main reason to go EFI would be easy starting. You may save on fuel but had a friend that went EFI for the easy starting.
 
Comodave said:
I think the main reason to go EFI would be easy starting. You may save on fuel but had a friend that went EFI for the easy starting.
Click to expand...

That would be a definite benefit. But as long as the chokes are set correctly, quadrajets start pretty well at any temperature a boat engine will experience (I've never started mine with the engine room below 45* or so).

For a cold start, pump to WOT 2 or 3 times to dump the accelerator pump shot, then leave the throttle cracked. It should fire within about 2 - 3 seconds of cranking at that point unless it's been sitting for long enough for the float bowls to dry up. If it doesn't start on the first try after sitting for more than a week or 2, pump the throttle 1 more time before cranking again.
 
The fuel lines on my Bertram would back flow to the tanks over time. If I had not used the boat in a couple weeks I would have to pump the throttles and crank for quite a bit. EFI usually means electric fuel pump and this should solve that. A good electronic ignition is a big help. My carbs on the old Bertram were set up by the guy whose book I owned for Rochester Carbs. In other words, the guy who wrote the book built and tuned my carbs. A 35 Bert has a 19 degree deadrise and is not generally a high efficiency design. My boat at 2600 rpms and 17 knots would burn around 16-18 gallons per hour. In short, getting over a mile per gallon with a pair of carbed 454's is not too shabby. The CC 41 is not much heavier than the Bert 35 at 23,500lbs (I think the Chris is 26,000) and the Chris has a flatter bottom, so you could possibly cruise on plane at close to a mile per gallon if you really work your tune. What could you get in MPG at hull speed? I never took the time to work out those numbers, and I should have. Sorry.
 
Those mpg numbers are impressive and they say my engines could use some better tuning and maybe different props. With stock carb tuning and timing, I see about 0.55 nmpg at 17 - 18 kts and as best I can estimate, somewhere in the 1.2 - 1.4 ballpark at 6.5 - 7 kts (don't have flow meters, so low speed estimate is less accurate). And my boat is a little lighter than the 410 (21,600 dry for mine, so I figure around 25,500 - 26,000 loaded). Deadrise on mine is 10*, I think the 410 is pretty similar. Your 17 kts at 2600 is pretty good too. Makes me think your hull isn't really all that draggy and you had pretty good props under there. I'm around 3200 rpm to do 17 kts.
 
Chris-Craft specific items.

Congratulations on buying the 410 Commander. As a new owner of a Chris-Craft of that vintage there are a few things you should know:
1) 12VDC wiring - Chris-Craft standard was BLACK is positive, WHITE is negative.
2) Fasteners - brass, bronze and chrome plated screws will be Reed & Prince, they look like Phillips but they are not and the heads will strip easily if you try to use a Phillips screwdriver. Stainless steel screws will be Phillips however.
3) Plumbing - If your plumbing is translucent plastic with black plastic fittins it is 3/8". The exact description escapes me. The tubing and equivalent brass fittings are available at big box home improvement store and inexpensive. On my own boat I was thinking of changing to PEX until I figured out repairing the existing was easy.
4) Engines - The Chris-Craft Marine Power 454s are great engines and have combination riser-manifolds (single casting). When closed cooled the entire exhaust system is included, with the exception of the water injection point casting that bolts at the end of the riser portion. If raw water cooled, be very careful during winterization as these manifolds have been out of production for years and the universal replacements are not a great fit for cooling and exhaust plumbing.

In terms of fuel tanks, if replacement is required it would be best to replace with aluminum tanks in the same size and configuration.

The 410 with 454s and working trim tabs should always be able to get up on plane unless heavily overloaded. Ideal WOT is 4200rpm. If it doesn't plane, there is a problem.
 
Some more about Reed & Prince screws. The bronze ones WILL strip very easily if you use a Phillips screwdriver. Jamestown Distributors has drivers for R&P screws, also know as Freerson. I bought a bunch of different size drivers and marked them with blue tape so I could easily tell which type of driver I was using. We had a Trojan that had bronze R&P or Freerson bronze screws.
 
I never knew that about the bronze screws needing a special screwdriver. I ruined a bunch of them trying to lift my toe rails on an old 32 foot Connie. (Too soon old and too late smart)

Certain people in the automotive industry referred to the Quadrajet as "Quadrajunk", I think they are being unkind. I had 2 on my 327's in the Connie, they ran great.

pete
 
They may make bronze screws in Phillips too. I don’t know but I found out quickly that a Phillips screwdriver will strip a R&P screw immediately. We had a Trojan F32 that had all of the interior woodwork put together with R&P or Freerson bronze screws. At first I couldn’t figure out how to get them out without stripping the screws. Got on the Trojan forum and found out about the special screws. Then I never stripped another one.
 
I had to laugh when I read the quoted below, that's what I thought as well:

Bottom line - it's a project boat, and I fully understand that. However, the price is right, and cheap enough that I can afford to put a significant amount of $$ into the bottom, engines, AC, and other random stuff (possibly replacing holding tank, water tanks, or fuel tanks? Bilge pumps, heads?)

So my experience, and mind you my boat was pretty much a total refit, new engine and leg, new fuel tanks, water tanks, new composting toilet (no holding tank), new electronics, new hydraulic steering versus old cable, new freezer while still keeping the 2 year old fridge that came with the boat, new force 10 galley, new decking (synthetic) inside and out, new swim platform with new used Seawise davits, new 9.5 RIB with new Merc 9.9, with new anchors - primary and secondary, new cushions, new drawers and a small pantry added, some new fold down boards - one in the galley to increase prep space, one in the saloon for portable tv, or whatever. I also added new windshield wipers, took out the back wooden railing and added a new stainless railing, and a new exturn (external) bow thruster and probably adding a Dockstar Stern thruster. The hull will be repainted and new bottom paint.

So what starts out innocently enough as I'm just going to do this and that turns into a massive project. I moved beyound a minor fix up to a major fix up as I didn't want to be nickled and dimed to death, translate that into boat dollars, over the years as this then that had to be fixed or replaced.

I have spent a lot of money but in essence I have a new boat with a layout I really like. I like the ambiance of an older boat. My refitter joked when he saw my new LED interior lights that they were more a modern style and I said, exactly.

If you have found the bones of a boat you love, then doing a major internal body transplant will pay off, not in terms of investment, but in terms of livability, reliability, fun factor of new electronics and safety, you will be rewarded.

Just turn $$ into $$$$$$ and you will be just fine.
 
Last edited:
rsn48 said:
If you have found the bones of a boat you love, then doing a major internal body transplant will pay off, not in terms of investment, but in terms of livability, reliability, fun factor of new electronics and safety, you will be rewarded.

Just turn $$ into $$$$$$ and you will be just fine.
Click to expand...


Even then, sometimes the money is a good investment. Yeah, you may never get it back in resale, but if you plan to keep the thing long enough, that's ok. And if you can't find a boat that's exactly what you want out of the box, finding a hull you like and doing a refit very well might make sense in terms of money spent vs getting the boat you want.
 
I plan to give my boat to my son when I can no longer safely use it. I know if he had to repower and do some other major fixes, he wouldn't be able to afford it with a new high mortgage for a home in Victoria. So I have outfitted it so that it can go roughly twenty years without something having to be replaced.
 
By the way, for the guy who thought me saying I spent $50,000 on repower doesn't understand everything that has to get done. Everything has to be stripped out, both engine, leg and in my case gas tanks. Then the hull cleaned up and epoxy painted about 40 % up both sides. New gas tanks put in... $$$. Then the old hole for the leg had to be reglassed.... $$$$. Then the engine purchased....$$$$$$$$, and the Bravo 2 leg purchased...$$$. Then the engine has to be installed..$$$$ and the leg installed...$$$$. Then a new stainless steel prop purchased....$$. Then everything has to be set up and rewired...$$$$. And labour for everything.... $$$$$$$$$. I would have been happy if it had just been $50,000.
 
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