Generator/ Shore Power switch

After arriving back at the slip late yesterday I plugged in the shore power, then switched off from the generator. There was a brief moment before my voltmeter showed 120 VAC. Being concerned, I removed the switch and found a couple of the wires had arced, possibly then, and will correct for these concerns. I am going to take the switch to my shop and disassemble and clean it as well. Has anyone gone through one of these? I suspect if the contact tips are in good shape I can file them flush? Should I add dielectric grease to the tips?

Greetings,
Mr. Forklift. Can't really help you with the switch but I've been told that one should make/break shore power connections from the circuit breaker in the pedestal to minimize arcing in the boat's switches. I'm sure you already know this but when taking the switch apart be wary of internal springs that can sproing into oblivion. On occasion, I've done the initial tear down inside a clear plastic bag.

We had the same switch and it almost started a fire. Fortunately we were on the boat at the time and we able to disconnect the shore power. We were told it is a replacement item. They don't last forever, it's mechanical.

Throw the thing away and replace it with a Blue Sea. You'll sleep better.

I have the same switch and was able to rebuild it. It was not hard at all. I used grease and corrosion protection spray. I have also made sure to never cycle it while it's charged. I found a few welds and minor burns and used emery cloth and light filing to knock them down. I plan to replace with a Blue Sea switch eventually to have an inverter selection, but am not in a place where I can do it yet. Maybe next year.

As part of my new generator install, I recently added a BlueSeas lockout slide source selector panel.

I like the simplicity of the switching and the panel looks well put together.

JohnP

JohnP said:

As part of my new generator install, I recently added a BlueSeas lockout slide source selector panel.

I like the simplicity of the switching and the panel looks well put together.

JohnP

Click to expand...

Got the same one on our boat.

I have something similar (top-left portion of panel) although I've no genset aboard.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. Forklift. Can't really help you with the switch but I've been told that one should make/break shore power connections from the circuit breaker in the pedestal to minimize arcing in the boat's switches. I'm sure you already know this but when taking the switch apart be wary of internal springs that can sproing into oblivion. On occasion, I've done the initial tear down inside a clear plastic bag.

Click to expand...

Great info all. RTF, common sense would tell you never to switch it under a load. Which is probably why I never really considered it. . I did always kill the AC's to save the compressors. I will sure look at it a differently now. Budget dictates that I try to rebuild this one. Any idea what the replacement would be in case it's a no go, or maybe I should consider the upgrade mentioned??

Greetings,
Mr Forklift. I certainly had NO intention of casting aspersions in the direction of your common sense. The switching technique may have not been familiar to other members.
My Larry M has described HIS near disaster and IMHO, I would take his advice and switch the switch. I'm not familiar with the Blue Sea equipment he and others mentioned but look upon it as cheap insurance.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to burn eventually, I just don't want to experience it on the boat.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr Forklift. I certainly had NO intention of casting aspersions in the direction of your common sense. The switching technique may have not been familiar to other members.
My Larry M has described HIS near disaster and IMHO, I would take his advice and switch the switch. I'm not familiar with the Blue Sea equipment he and others mentioned but look upon it as cheap insurance.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to burn eventually, I just don't want to experience it on the boat.

Click to expand...

RTF, I was just cutting up. But you brought a great point up. I suppose what I usually do is switch the main breaker off, then switch from Gen to shore power, then flip the main breaker back on- followed by the AC units if they have been shut off a couple of minutes. This always seemed the best approach to me? Any suggestions?

Greetings,
Mr. Forklift. I am by no means anywhere near an expert, but this is my drill. I normally don't run with the genny on. I have, but not normally. If I was and was preparing to plug in, I would shut down AC's or whatever load items were on, shut down the genny, switch the distribution switch on board from gen to shore and with the pedestal breaker off, plug in shore power, flip on the pedestal breaker then go back on board and turn on load items again. My inverter would carry fridge etc. in the interim. It sounds like we may be using the same technique but different terminology.

All switches wear as they break loads. Usually DC is the hardest on the contacts but AC also switches also die in time.

My way is to use a 240v50a range plug that is all the boat loads.

It is simply plugged into the socket for shore, noisemaker (1 or 2) or inveerter.

This gets rid of the problem with neutral/ground combinations, and is inexpensive to create or replace in time.

Usually mounted in a closet , no rain proof equipment is required.

KISS

FF

Here's the switch we installed.

AC Rotary Switch Panel 30 Ampere 2 positions + OFF, 4 Pole - PN 8386 - Blue Sea Systems

30 amp double pole from Lowes. Designed to be switched under load.

I had the exact same problem over the weekend. Our switch got so hot that we were smelling melting plastic. A new switch is about $100 from Blue Sea. For me, we don't have a generator on our boat, so I rewired directly into the panel for the shore power, bypassing the switch. Here is a link to a replacement.

West Marine

jeffnick said:

30 amp double pole from Lowes. Designed to be switched under load.

Click to expand...

Larry M said:

Here's the switch we installed.

AC Rotary Switch Panel 30 Ampere 2 positions + OFF, 4 Pole - PN 8386 - Blue Sea Systems

Click to expand...

Nice set up. I'm gonna need to check my available space.

Phil Fill said:

It is recommended by ABYC that there is a breaker between the boat shore power plug in and the main selector switch. Many boat only have a breaker after the selector switch which leaves the main selector switch taking the load and unprotected.

Click to expand...

Phil, mine is set up that way.

Larry M said:

Here's the switch we installed.

AC Rotary Switch Panel 30 Ampere 2 positions + OFF, 4 Pole - PN 8386 - Blue Sea Systems

Click to expand...

Larry,
Would the 8386 be what I need? I guess I better check the dryer and AC voltages??
I finally opened my old one up today. as mentioned, it was an accident waiting for the worst time to happen.

Forklift: The 8386 was a direct replacement for the one that melted down on Hobo. We have 2-30 amp AC boat circuits fed by either shore power or generator. The switch was definitely an upgrade.


Here's the wiring schematic for the switch.

http://bluesea.com/files/resources/schematic/6337.jpg

Get a hold of Blue Sea or talk to a marine electrician. Without seeing your distribution panel, I hate to say one way or the other.

K. Will do.

Hello all. I have been talking with a friend of mine (teaches industrial electrical) and am finally going to have time today to run to the boat and determine how much area I have in the control panel, amperage needed and how many poles. I also have two other concerns. 1- I have a CS Generator/Shorepower switch someone in the past mounted beside the steering wheel that has to be flipped to Gen for the front AC to run. My guess is that the boat, originally sold in the north east, only came with the rear AC unit and the associated wiring to this switch was added when the second AC was installed. I need to determine today what it does exactly. 2-I have double 30 amp shore power receptacles (1 pole each I would think), a generator (another pole) and eventually a possible charger/ invertor. Would this require a 4 pole switch?

Forkliftt said:

1- I have a CS Generator/Shorepower switch someone in the past mounted beside the steering wheel that has to be flipped to Gen for the front AC to run. My guess is that the boat, originally sold in the north east, only came with the rear AC unit and the associated wiring to this switch was added when the second AC was installed. I need to determine today what it does exactly.

It sounds like it is used as an on/off switch. Just a guess. Is there a breaker on the main panel for the forward AC unit? Or is there a breaker after the switch? Where does the AC come from that feeds that switch?


Since you have 2-30 amp circuits coming into the boat you can use one circuit for the 2 AC units and their pumps and the other circuit for everything else. It is simple, common and safe to wire AC units that way that were not factory installed.

2-I have double 30 amp shore power receptacles (1 pole each I would think), a generator (another pole) and eventually a possible charger/ inverter. Would this require a 4 pole switch?

You need a 4 pole switch but not for the future charger/inverter. The AC that feeds inverters/chargers comes after the switch. Look at the schematic in post 21 again. I'm pretty sure that's how your old switch was wired. If you're still have questions get a hold of a marine electrician for if nothing else have him take a look at your boats AC wiring. It may be fine and all you need is to replace the switch.

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Good luck

Forkliftt, you know I am getting into the electrical next. I've been debating on using a breaker with lockouts and simple switches. Reason is because if the big $600 switch breaks you have to buy another $600 switch. Little switches are cheaper when one goes bad or shorts out.

Quote:
The AC that feeds inverters/chargers comes after the switch.

Anode said:

Not true for all inverter/chargers. Mine is a 'pass through' system. I have a two-position rotary switch for SP and Gen that feeds AC to the inverter/charger. The i/c feeds the panel AC. Inverter on/off can be done manually or left in the auto mode to come on when the unit doesn't sense AC source. Xantrex MS-3000

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Chip: I think we're talking about 2 different things. My inverter also has automatic pass though for the AC but it gets it's AC after the switch from either shore power or generator.

You're right Larry. I read your response wrong. Sorry about that.
Breathing epoxy fumes today.

Update. I pulled switches, breakers, etc. loose, and then reinstalled the defective rotary switch. This allowed me to trace the wiring circuits and change it to what should have been when the "improvements" weremade. Unbelievable mess. Bottom line- and a question I need to have answered ASAP by someone who knows. Am I required to pass the shore power hot AND common through the rotary switch AND a main breaker ( the way Otis from Taiwan) to be ABYC compliant??

Forklift - I don't have the ABYC codes in front of me but. Yes you need to have breakers for the hot and common on your main breaker.
Yes you need to keep the hot and common shore power AC and gen set AC segregated from each other. That is best done by switching both legs with the rotary switch.
The experts should be around shortly.