Samson Posts

I’d like to install a Samson post just aft of our windlass. Main uses would be to loop anchor snubbers coming through hawse holes, port and starboard, or tie off the chain when we’re breaking the anchor loose. The horns on the hawse cleats are prone to bend under heavy loads and I think the Samson post might be a better long-term solution with good chafe protection.

When I have snubbers running in from both hawse holes, it would seem that the loads on the Samson post would be pulling in opposite directions and might lessen the load on the mounting hardware.

I’ve seen posts with single and double horns. Is there any reason not to go with a single? Seems like a single would be a smaller thing to trip over.

I haven't seen posts with only one horn but will take your word for it. Mine has 2 opposing "horns" and seem useful for securing lines as the wraps for a figure 8 much the same as a conventional cleat. I'm having a hard time picturing how one would tie to a cleat with only one horn??
The horns arent much of a tripping hazard as they are near the top of the post and dont interfere with foot placement?

I like the pic and it brings back fond memories... somewhat ironic as there is no tieing off when traversing the "chute".

Ours is the wooden type, no horns, just a slight “narrowing” of the post in the middle third. I would think the abrupt turn and increased forces of the snubbers at the hawse would have to be considered if a Samson post is used.

Bacchus said:

The horns arent much of a tripping hazard as they are near the top of the post and dont interfere with foot placement?

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MY last boat was as described above and posed no tripping hazard.

If you are going to install a samson post on you boat, pay attention to the structural issues. OEM samson posts are almost always installed bolted to a bulkhead below.


If that is not the case on your boat where you plan to install one, I would use aluminum angle welded up to bridge to the nearest bulkhead. The loads on an unsupported deck mounting will be huge.


David

Bending the horns on a hawse cleat? I don't believe you could bend a horn on my Albin if you wanted to. Doubt if you could pull it out of the deck either. I must be missing something. If you are applying that much strain something is wrong.

I suppose you could add a Sampson post to any boat although I think it should be "built in" rather than "added on". Mine runs through the deck and becomes part of the hull at the keel. If you are going to add one remember that it has to be STRONG! Maybe not you but someone, somewhere will assume it is the strongest part on the boat and will use it to tow or anchor in a hurricane.

pete

I had a Samson post on Willy when I bought her. (pic#1) Taken when we first bought Willy. Took it off and sold it to a guy in Alaska that was practically drooling over it. This one had a smaller dia base that provided more room for lines. But as you can see ..only three attach bolts. Notice that the backing plate is mostly on deck and made of plywood. Very effective and light. The plywood mount plate I made to replace that is (1" thick DF) in pic#2. It spreads the loads over a large area and involves many fasteners so one would need to rip the whole deck off to loose the anchor line.
My original S13 Danforth anchor was on deck where (I believe they were intended to be). The bow was clean and not encumbered w anything. Great visibility.

I wanted dedicated cleats. And three of them. (pic #2) One big one on C/L for the anchor rode and one smaller on each side for mooring ties.
On most SP (Samson Posts) the lines are attached much higher than cleats. This transfers the vertical load (high) to the two far side bolts. The high SP tend to rip up the bolts on the far side of the tension on the line. Not good.
And I choose my cleats that were low and w four bolt holes w a rather wide and long footprint. And I can use the large cleat to attach two lines to at times. SP never seem to have enough room for lines on the post. And of course they usually are tall enough to trip on.
I've had this three cleat arrangement for about 12 years and have no need or want to change.

I have two (one on each side) small SP on the cap rail and I'd love to get rid of those. (pic #3) I usually want to fasten my spring lines there and the SP is just too small. And in this app I need two lines attached.
But I kinda like them to loop a line around and pull the boat in on a float. And when solo I make this one fast first. Again I'd rather have two cleats.

A real proper SP isn't bedded in on deck but is a tall square pice of oak or better that goes through the deck all the way down to the keel. That way theres no twisting or bending loads on the SP above deck if it's not tall. And all the lateral loads are applied to the deck. The best SP arrangement almost always done on a wood boat.

Samson post and cleats. I added the cleat ahead of the post since we raft a lot.
I also tie off on the windlass when necessary.

I had a single large post mounted on Possum’s bow when she was built. It was the only place to connect lines on the bow. Later I wished I’d installed two large cleats instead. It would have made line handling easier.

Not sure why a single Sampson post is an issue if one either dips the eyes of dock lines or ties one with a clove hitch or turn with half hitches if fiddling one is really necessary.

I have a single wooden post, no horns that I use all the time....PO added a cleat on the back side which I occasionally put a dock line on if long term where adjusting it may be necessary.

Bacchus said:

I haven't seen posts with only one horn but will take your word for it.

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I may have gotten the wrong terminology. May have been thinking of mooring bitts like these.

Codger2 said:

MY last boat was as described above and posed no tripping hazard.

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This is the one I’m leaning toward.

DavidM said:

If you are going to install a samson post on you boat, pay attention to the structural issues. OEM samson posts are almost always installed bolted to a bulkhead below.


If that is not the case on your boat where you plan to install one, I would use aluminum angle welded up to bridge to the nearest bulkhead. The loads on an unsupported deck mounting will be huge.


David

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Good thoughts. The mounting location is tight up against—but not directly over—a bulkhead. It will bolt through a thick timber reinforcement that, combined with a generous backing plate underneath, should be more than strong enough.

Pete Meisinger said:

Bending the horns on a hawse cleat? I don't believe you could bend a horn on my Albin if you wanted to. Doubt if you could pull it out of the deck either. I must be missing something. If you are applying that much strain something is wrong.

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Depends on the size of the casting, weight of the boat and the forces put on the cleat. It’s a common failure mode on heavy boats in heavy winds.

Pete Meisinger said:

I suppose you could add a Sampson post to any boat although I think it should be "built in" rather than "added on". Mine runs through the deck and becomes part of the hull at the keel. If you are going to add one remember that it has to be STRONG! Maybe not you but someone, somewhere will assume it is the strongest part on the boat and will use it to tow or anchor in a hurricane.

pete

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Many people add Samson posts to their boats without problems.

A proper samson post runs down to the keelson, deadwood and is tied into frames and bulkheads.

If its a post that simply bolts to the deck it is a bollard.

We have a proper samson post , if it wasn't one it could have been a telegraph post

Ian,
Here's what was installed on our 2005 DeFever.

Thanks, Luke. Exactly the install I’m after. Do you recall how it was secured? Through-bolted with backing plate or screwed into timber?

Simi 60 said:

A proper samson post runs down to the keelson, deadwood and is tied into frames and bulkheads.

If its a post that simply bolts to the deck it is a bollard.

We have a proper samson post , if it wasn't one it could have been a telegraph post

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A “proper” Samson post is also capitalized.

angus99 said:

Thanks, Luke. Exactly the install I’m after. Do you recall how it was secured? Through-bolted with backing plate or screwed into timber?

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No idea....Its backing plate and hardware would be above the headliner in V-Berth, not visible from the chain locker.

Simi 60 said:

A proper samson post runs down to the keelson, deadwood and is tied into frames and bulkheads.

If its a post that simply bolts to the deck it is a bollard.

We have a proper samson post , if it wasn't one it could have been a telegraph post

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Yes and when it failed it pulled the whole bow off the boat.

As in Luke’s post above what’s the advantage of the Sampson post over two cleats? Or even one large cleat?

Technically it is stronger because cleats usually only rely on deck strength.

Sure you can do all sorts of things to either..but typically........

On my boat, I've got 2 large bow cleats for dock lines. I'm also adding a samson post as an extra tie-off point for the anchor rode. It'll only be supported by the deck, but it's mounted through a 3 inch thick pulpit that sits on top of a 3 inch thick section of deck with a 4 square foot backing plate (that also holds other things) underneath. Basically, if it fails, it would have to take a massive chunk of deck with it and if something puts that much force on it, I'm sure it would have ripped a cleat or anything else out as well.

[STRIKE][/STRIKE]

Nomad Willy said:

As in Luke’s post above what’s the advantage of the Sampson post over two cleats? Or even one large cleat?

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The SP is a lot more sexier and salty looking! Other than that, I agree a proper cleat is just as good!

I bought this Sampson Post (bollard) from a Chinese outfit at a show in Tampa. Stout, high quality unit, but working out the additional leverage Placed on the deck over a substantial cleat, I decided against it. Unless I go to an awful lot of trouble, it’s deck jewelry.

healhustler said:

I bought this Sampson Post (bollard) from a Chinese outfit at a show in Tampa. Stout, high quality unit, but working out the additional leverage Placed on the deck over a substantial cleat, I decided against it. Unless I go to an awful lot of trouble, it’s deck jewelry.

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That looks very like a Vetus unit I bought 30 years ago , actually two, for my boat.
Dead on copy I'll guess.

healhustler said:

I bought this Sampson Post (bollard) from a Chinese outfit at a show in Tampa. Stout, high quality unit, but working out the additional leverage Placed on the deck over a substantial cleat, I decided against it. Unless I go to an awful lot of trouble, it’s deck jewelry.

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Going back to my original post, in my case, the SP/bollard would have the eye splices of two snubbers looped over it. The splices would lie close to the deck and nothing would be hitched to the ears. The snubbers would pass through the hawse holes on both sides of the bow. As the wind picks up, the loading on the SP would be from opposing directions, similar to Eric’s last photo in post #7. I’m certainly no naval architect, but I should think all of this would serve to reduce leverage on the SP.

Larry, is yours for sale?

angus99 said:

Going back to my original post, in my case, the SP/bollard would have the eye splices of two snubbers looped over it. The splices would lie close to the deck and nothing would be hitched to the ears. The snubbers would pass through the hawse holes on both sides of the bow. As the wind picks up, the loading on the SP would be from opposing directions, similar to Eric’s last photo in post #7. I’m certainly no naval architect, but I should think all of this would serve to reduce leverage on the SP...

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Good thinking. There is a boat on my marina with soft foredecks, the factory Samson post is tall and suspected as a cause of water entry while withstanding a storm. Yours is way lower, reducing leverage. One thing though,I would not expect balancing forces from the two snubber lines, more likely the load will be largely on one, then the other, and so on, as the boat hunts into the wind.

BruceK said:

One thing though,I would not expect balancing forces from the two snubber lines, more likely the load will be largely on one, then the other, and so on, as the boat hunts into the wind.

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You’re right, Bruce, especially if the wind is shifting and the boat is yawing and pitching. I’m thinking that as the wind intensifies from a single direction, there might be some counter-balancing effect, but . . .

I do plan to use the thickest/widest backing plate I can fit under the headliner and properly bed the SP with butyl tape. Also chafe gear where the snubbers pass through the hawse holes.

Pretty much anything I do should be an improvement over the current snubber-less setup, which puts all the loads directly on the windlass . . . and is one reason we’ve picked our anchoring weather very carefully.

mine are similar to Luke's. The Samson post is through bolted to deck but directly over the bulkhead between forward cabin & chain locker.
Those "open horn" cleats used on most DeFevers are known to bend in a stiff blow, a few members have replaced them with custom reinforced cleats others had a small, SS rod welded between the inner aspects of the horns so they no longer fold inwards.

Flatswing said:

mine are similar to Luke's. The Samson post is through bolted to deck but directly over the bulkhead between forward cabin & chain locker.
Those "open horn" cleats used on most DeFevers are known to bend in a stiff blow, a few members have replaced them with custom reinforced cleats others had a small, SS rod welded between the inner aspects of the horns so they no longer fold inwards.

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Jeremy, does yours “straddle” the bulkhead with backing plates or brackets on both sides?