A Monk where angels might fear to tread

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Bob Noodat

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If you are courageous, determined, have many skills, or are just plain foolish, here is a must-have project: A very old Monk 40' in outwardly seemingly complete condition near Vancouver BC. He wants a thousand (Canadian = one bag of wampum, two Hudson's Bay point blankets and a pemican cake) but I suspect might drop that by a grand or so.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rch/boa/d/richmond-1930s-40-foot-monk-style/7081837342.html




It could be a beauty. Seller writes that it has "Beautiful Craftsman wood work on this interior. Lots of teak and oak woodwork"
 

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If the seller gave me $400,000 I'd take it.
 
I'd take it for free if he bought me a HUGE chainsaw, some sticks and some marshmallows.
 
Looks like the old Monks have no admirers here. I've seen some neat examples of the postwar ones.
 

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Remember a month or six weeks ago some screwball was intent on restoring a big wooden boat ? He was asking all kinds of dumb questions like couldn't he just use green treated wood and stainless screws. He wouldn't give us any information on the boat or himself. We suggested he was looking at a lifelong do it your self project or about a four to six million dollar restoration if he hired it done which is kind of what he was sounding like. I wonder if this old "woodie" is part of that deal?

pete
 
Was he Canadian? There's not many of us up here. I can ask my neighbour if he knows him.
 
The owner is advertising it as a shed or guest cottage on land. Don't think it's being marketed as a potential seaworthy craft.
 
God bless him for trying to give it another life but not likely to happen. All joking aside, what a beautiful craft it must have been in it's day!
 
I like wood boats and have one, but that boat will probably never float again. It will cost more than it's worth to move it. Depending on how long it's been out of the water and how it's blocked, the hull may be shot now. The decks and cabin probably leak.

The next owner isn't going to be a shipwright. And a good one would take a couple years working alone to get the hull ready for water. And then there's the rot we can't see in the picture.
 
I full on cheer anyone who restores and older boat, my boat is a 1969 vintage. Here is a guy I have been following, lives in Victoria on his monk that he is in the process of restoring. When you watch his videos, over 100 now, you just know this guy is going to get the job done.

I posted the first video in the Monk section here on TF and as I was doing it I thought it would die a slow death, which happened. But the good news is I use it a reference to find the first video.

Here is the intro video that isn't a video, but he introduces himself and shows the boat he purchased - a Monk of course:


Here is a short video of an autobiography of the chap doing the restoration, well worth the watch, and not a guy from the cookie cutter, my kind of guy: [You will note this video is number 123]

 
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Bob Noodat said:
If you are courageous, determined, have many skills, or are just plain foolish, here is a must-have project: A very old Monk 40' in outwardly seemingly complete condition near Vancouver BC. He wants a thousand (Canadian = one bag of wampum, two Hudson's Bay point blankets and a pemican cake) but I suspect might drop that by a grand or so.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rch/boa/d/richmond-1930s-40-foot-monk-style/7081837342.html




It could be a beauty. Seller writes that it has "Beautiful Craftsman wood work on this interior. Lots of teak and oak woodwork"
Click to expand...
Needs a match and some gasoline. Not every old boat needs to be saved. Money pit extraordinaire.
 
Thanks for the great link, rsn48. I shall enjoy watching those. Great to read a post by a non-Philistine!
 
In our Marina there is a trawler that I believe is a late ‘60’s model Grand Banks Alaskan 46. At a distance I admired her high bow and nice styling. They recently moved the vessel closer to me. Wow! At closer look many hull plans are rotten, the paint is really bad, and the superstructure plywood is delaminated. What a shame. She would be a beautiful vessel in Bristol condition but is probably worth more in parts and firewood. It made me appreciate the fact that my GB 42 is fiberglass.
 
This is a cruising forum. For many (most?) cruising is not crossing an ocean. But if that is a criteria or if you're on an ultra budget, sail has many more options than power. But for majority of sailors of middle income means, an economical trawler is as viable for cruising - even serious coastal cruising including the entire Caribbean. The Dashew article cites sails lasting about 2200 hours. If a suit of sails is $10k (not including running and standing rigging), well, it offsets a lot of diesel fuel for a trawler that does 7-8 kts at 2-2.5 gph. It really comes down to personal preference. But no doubt, crossing an ocean in a small, suitably equipped powerboat is much, much more expensive endeavor than in a sailboat. If that's the OPs itinerary and he/she is of average means, the options in a power boat get very limited unless they are willing to accept additional risk of not having backup propulsion or fortified scantlings.
 
Bob Noodat said:
Looks like the old Monks have no admirers here.
Click to expand...
No, I'm a very big admirer of the Monk designs. In its day, I'm sure the boat in post #1 was a real beauty. But its day has long since passed. Based on the picture, you'd probably have to spend twice what it's worth just to get it floating again. And then three more times what it is worth to get it into good condition. That's IF (a very big "if") you could move it without having it fall completely apart, right where it is.


Some boats, no matter how good the design, or how beautiful they were in their day, just need to be scrapped. This, sadly, looks like one of those.
 
In response to "mvweebles". Methinks your post is misdirected. Maybe you belong to several forums but this is a trawler forum, not a cruising forum. Sure there is an overlap but your post should go somewhere else. This thread happens to be about restoring old wooden boats. Generally trawlers but not always.

Who amongst us does not get an inner glow when upon pulling into a harbor or port is met with some viewers jaw dropping a bit or a dock walker stopping by to compliment us on our boat. Some of the compliments I have heard, or given include "I love your boat", "I love trawlers" or even "Yours is the most beautiful boat in the harbor".

Who amongst us would not love to pull into a harbor in the original post Monk after she has had a few million dollars put into her?

It will probably never happen, at least with me at the helm or writing the checks but what's wrong with dreaming about it, or even talking about it. Even adding negative comments is OK, isn't that what a Forum is all about?

pete
 
I think you're right Pete - looks like I misdirected the response. On my mobile phone, I don't see the thread as fully. I must have clicked wrong one

Thanks and apologies for the clutter and the head-scratching it caused.

Peter
Pete Meisinger said:
In response to "mvweebles". Methinks your post is misdirected. Maybe you belong to several forums but this is a trawler forum, not a cruising forum. Sure there is an overlap but your post should go somewhere else. This thread happens to be about restoring old wooden boats. Generally trawlers but not always.

Who amongst us does not get an inner glow when upon pulling into a harbor or port is met with some viewers jaw dropping a bit or a dock walker stopping by to compliment us on our boat. Some of the compliments I have heard, or given include "I love your boat", "I love trawlers" or even "Yours is the most beautiful boat in the harbor".

Who amongst us would not love to pull into a harbor in the original post Monk after she has had a few million dollars put into her?

It will probably never happen, at least with me at the helm or writing the checks but what's wrong with dreaming about it, or even talking about it. Even adding negative comments is OK, isn't that what a Forum is all about?

pete
Click to expand...
 
Even though your post was misdirected (mvweebles) I really found it interesting. Comparing the cost of a new set of sails to the cost of fuel is certainly a new twist or consideration in the discussion of sail vs trawler discussion which we get into occasionally.

I knew that sails did not last forever but didn't realize that 2200 hours was an estimate, wow! On my trawler that equals more than the fuel cost of the same number of hours. I'm sure that an old "tug" like mine compared to an old "tug" of a sailboat would go many times that number of hours, guess it depends on what you want out of your sailboat. Interesting though.

Even though I am too old, too fat and too slow of a learner to consider an ocean going sailboat the thought is still intriguing, going thousands of miles and not spending any money on fuel.

Any ex sailboaters, turned trawler owners able to give us a cost comparison for long or short term ownership, or maybe even mile per mile or whatever yardstick you care to use?

Talk about hijacking a thread... Sorry

pete
 
Pete Meisinger said:
Any ex sailboaters, turned trawler owners able to give us a cost comparison for long or short term ownership, or maybe even mile per mile or whatever yardstick you care to use?QUOTE]

Link below is a sail/trawler comparison. Author of the blog is the father of a family of 4 cruising the Bahamas and Western Caribbean on a GB42. Previously, they had circumnavigated on a 35-foot sailing cat, then also sailed a 42-foot monohull. This blog post compares the two, and some notion of the costs.

https://www.bumfuzzle.com/trawler-vs-sail/

Larry with KK42 - do I recall correctly you also sailed most of the way around the world on a sailboat, then completed via your KK42?

Finally, here is the Dashew article on cost compare, albeit for gold-plated boats (both power and sail). Frankly, given the miles he's done, he's the definitive record.

https://setsail.com/operating-costs-sail-vs-power/

Peter
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I'm also an admirer of Monk designs, having owned both sail and power woodies.
As classy as they look, the interior layout is usually the most impressive part. The woodies generally didn't have googaws (like flying bridges). That came later (except on Monk working boats where they actually serve a purpose). The pleasure boats that he designed for the Pacific Northwest are marvelous.

Any prospective purchaser of an unrestored Monk should be told that it would be less expensive to simply begin building a new Monk design. Many of his designs were available through his widow back in the day. They might still be around. Spend $500 for the plans, sit in your evening chair and admire them, decide not to build, save a million dollars and two million tears.

Mark
 
A fine example of where old trawlers go to die.
This one has been parked out behind the barn, literally, on Lulu Island BC, where it rains all winter, year after year after year. There is no evidence it has ever been tarped. It is jammed in with other hulks, would be impossible to move without huge expense. Just imagine trying to push a trailer in under those thin, fragile, rotten planks.
For a closer view, see Google Maps at 49.1615°N 123.0072W.
 
Sad, I am a self confessed Monk fan (I almost keep Bet Oliver's book under my pillow at night), I am also a wooden boat fan having owned two (both sail, a sloop and a ketch). I am now a trawler fan, chartering every year from Cooper up in BC. I hate to see boats like this just left to die. Perhaps someone with Mike Bloomberg's resources can save her.
Best to all.
 
T210DRVR said:
In our Marina there is a trawler that I believe is a late ‘60’s model Grand Banks Alaskan 46. At a distance I admired her high bow and nice styling. They recently moved the vessel closer to me. Wow! At closer look many hull plans are rotten, the paint is really bad, and the superstructure plywood is delaminated. What a shame. She would be a beautiful vessel in Bristol condition but is probably worth more in parts and firewood. It made me appreciate the fact that my GB 42 is fiberglass.
Click to expand...

My '72 GB42 was wooden, truck to keel; came to me in '86 in good condition; took good care of it for 29 years; and it now lives in Galveston under new stewardship. A diver looking over the bottom as he scrubbed one time commented upon what a nice restoration had been done. Hell, I told him, it's never had a plank rot or replaced because it has been CARED for. It takes virtually no time at all for things to go south when the time and money run out for that care. I am proud to say that when it left here in 2015 that it had never been in better shape in part maybe because the urge for change and sale of the boat happened in about a six week window.
 
Wood boats

My son and a friend bought a 29 foot pacemaker all wood, when he was in his 20s. It stayed in our backyard for three years during their “refit“. In the end my son bought his partner out and took a chainsaw to it. A great time was had by all even me, looking at it. I have always loved boats but this one not so much....
 
Pete Meisinger said:
Even though your post was misdirected (mvweebles) I really found it interesting. Comparing the cost of a new set of sails to the cost of fuel is certainly a new twist or consideration in the discussion of sail vs trawler discussion which we get into occasionally.

I knew that sails did not last forever but didn't realize that 2200 hours was an estimate, wow!
Click to expand...

Yes, sails cost money too. And their life is limited. The 2200 hour number is complete and total BS. Same as saying a diesel lasts 10,000 hours. We all know that "it depends" and then a loooooong list of variables. I've seen sails rot out in a few years with no use due to neglect and I've owned sails that lasted thousands and thousands of miles with prudent use and good care.

For all intents and purposes I consider replacing running/standing rigging and a new suit of sails the equivalent of an engine overhaul.

As a bi-boater I am currently looking at power after owning sailboats. Some of them we operated very economically. A power boat over the same mileage would have cost more. Problem is that it's apples and oranges. If it's just getting A to B then wind may get you there cheaper. But you'll have less space and comfort per linear foot. If you want powerboat space and comfort in a sailboat you are buying a LARGE boat and that's more $$ up front, as well as higher fixed cost. If you want space and comfort in a similar LOA then it's gonna need engine(s) to move that tub.

Bottom line is that boating costs money, no matter how you do it.
 
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oscar said:
Yes, sails cost money too. And their life is limited. The 2200 hour number is complete and total BS. Same as saying a diesel lasts 10,000 hours. We all know that "it depends" and then a loooooong list of variables. I've seen sails rot out in a few years with no use due to neglect and I've owned sails that lasted thousands and thousands of miles with prudent use and good care.

For all intents and purposes I consider replacing running/standing rigging and a new suit of sails the equivalent of an engine overhaul.

As a bi-boater I am currently looking at power after owning sailboats. Some of them we operated very economically. A power boat over the same mileage would have cost more. Problem is that it's apples and oranges. If it's just getting A to B then wind may get you there cheaper. But you'll have less space and comfort per linear foot. If you want powerboat space and comfort in a sailboat you are buying a LARGE boat and that's more $$ up front, as well as higher fixed cost. If you want space and comfort in a similar LOA then it's gonna need engine(s) to move that tub.

Bottom line is that boating costs money, no matter how you do it.
Click to expand...
BS? Tough to argue the experience of Steve Dashew who has logged 250k nms aboard both sail and power and includes several circumnavigation aboard both beginning with a Columbia 50 in 1980 or so. He's a detail guy who seems to keep records. If he says a sail is ready to be replaced at 2200 hours (call it 12k-14k nms, or one-third to halfway around the world) , I'm guessing he's got the data to back it up and is roughly right at the least - far from BS zone unless your idea of a useless sail is when it when the threads are rotted and its totally blown out. He had no comment on standing /running rigging but I assume ever second or third sail swap is probably about right, but just a guess.

Tough to say for sure, but most heavy duty and low rpm Diesels run 10k-15k hours before major overhauls assuming decent maintenance. Lighter, higher RPM Diesels such as those in many sailboats are lucky to get half that.

There are many, many active cruisers who converted from sail to trawler who say the base operating costs are not that dissimilar. The only folks who vehemently disagree are sailors who find it an inconvenient truth - sailboats have a lot of occasional costs (sails and rigging) that are easy to ignore because they are episodic and often occur before a cruise. Trawlers have a lot of ongoing costs (fuel) that are easy to identify because they occur during a cruise.

There are many reasons to prefer sail over power . Given a roughly similar lifestyle that encompasses at least half the middle class cruisers out there, cheap operating costs are more myth than reality. If you are on a super austere budget, then sail absolutely. If you have a decent retiree budget of $3k-$4k/mo and plan on doing the loop or the Bahamas or something similar, you can a similar lifestyle with either sail or trawler. If you are one of the 0.1% who plan to circumnavigate, then cost of fuel becomes a factor.
 
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