Transiting to & from Desolation Sound

The stars are starting to align to head to Desolation Sound the first week of April. We are looking to do a 4-5 day charter out of Comox on a CHB 34 or maybe something a bit bigger. As for timing, I go when the school calendar says I can go so I either go the first week of April or not. I am starting to do some planning and I have a concern about weather in the Strait of Georgia with a CHB 34. For example today the winds were in the 15 knot range and waves were about a meter at 5 seconds.

Here are some questions:
-When will things get uncomfortable in a CHB 34, I am assuming 3 foot chop / 1 meter is about the end of the comfort zone either quartering into them or taking them on the stern. On the beam I am guessing 3 footers / 1meter would get you rolling uncomfortably, true? Assuming 3 foot chop is doable does that slow this boat down to 6 knots or less when it would normally run 7 in flatter water?

-Let’s say I know it’s going to blow 15-20 knots in the afternoon from the south or straight up the strait. If we work our way from Desolation Sound over to say Kuhushan Point on the east side of Vancouver Island is there any material relief to be found by running the beach down to Comox? Looks like the 50 foot line is pretty clear most of the way.

-As for going north it seems like if you can get over to the mainland side of the strait you would get some protection from the various islands on that side. Is that typically true or are there local winds that funnel out of the hills?

Can you reset your horizon to the Gulf Islands? You can stay more protected and have more facilities.

Cooper boating charters out of Powell River. Don't have to cross the Strait of Georgia if that is your major concern.

refugio said:

Can you reset your horizon to the Gulf Islands? You can stay more protected and have more facilities.

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That’s a good call. It might be a few degrees warmer also. Lots of nice cruising grounds without covering a lot of miles and its all protected water.

4-5 days in early April out of Comox could be perfectly lovely or downright awful. Completely weather dependant and you don't have a very long time frame to allow a wait for decent weather.


Any weather coming out of the south will generally funnel right up the mainland side between the islands and the mainland. The southerly will follow you right into Lewis Channel in Desolation. The east side of Vancouver Island is completely unprotected. You would check the Grief Point reporting station, Merry Island lightstation, Chrome Island lightstation and Sentry Shoal buoy. Have a look at those now before your trip and see what patterns you might encounter.


You question on comfort totally depends on your comfort level and ability to handle the boat. You would be out there longer if you try to angle across keeping the following seas somewhat behind you or if you go more or less straight across you will be rolling in 3 foot, 5 second water. The Strait can be one nasty piece of water and with your time frame you may push yourself and regret it. On the other hand it could be perfectly benign weather where you could have no problems at all.



The charter company may be able to give you recommended routes, especially in the event the winds come up.



If you are able to enjoy Desolation in April you will have your choice of anchorages and privacy for sure. Good luck with your plans.

I have my boat in Comox. From Comox to Powell River at roughly 7 knots is about 2 1/2 hours. Once you are in the Powell River area and up you are in much more protected areas.

April for weather is a bit of a crap shot, maybe spectacular, maybe constant rain, but probably a bit of both. I just did a rough comparison of weather around Vancouver and North and it is colder and rainier than Victoria way. I think you might be better off in the Gulp Islands as well.

I’ve chartered twice out of Desolation Sound Charters. In June we had to stand down a day before we could cross. That was in a Gulf Mariner 40’ vessel. The boat wasn’t rented the next day so we were fine with it. Talk to the charter company and see what kind of flexibility they could offer with weather. Chances are there won’t be a lot of demand that time of year and you will be fine.

The typical route from Comox is to cross the bar and head straight across to Shearwater Passage and then NW along the mainland shore. Passing through Thulin Passage is lovely.

Chartering out of Comox and heading to the Gulf Islands isn’t the best use of your time and money. You are better off chartering out of either Nanaimo/Sidney area or out of Vancouver if you are heading to the Gulf Islands.

Jim

If you are out of Comox the Gulf Islands aren't going to be any easier coming or going. Once you get over to Power River (or more realistically to Lund) its fairly sheltered. Could be nasty getting there or not. If you have a reasonable forecast for the morning, start early - like before dawn - as it often picks up through the day. PredictWind or the like will give some indication. No facilities will be open up in Desolation at that time of year - but it will be relatively uncrowded too.

We cruised the Gulf Islands last summer so looking to zero in on new grounds in Desolation Sound and try life aboard a CHB 34. Agree the Gulf Islands would be more of a sure bet and offer much more protection. Last April we did a scouting trip of mid-Vancouver Island with our VW van and had phenomenal weather while we were exploring Quadra Island. See pics. Also got onto Nootka Sound via a supply boat and had good enough weather. Our trip back on the ferry from Nanaimo to Vancouver was definitely that nasty weather spoken of in this thread: rain, 25+ knots of wind and 6 foot chop. I know if it's nasty we either stay in port or stay tucked away somewhere at anchor.

I am trying to figure out a game plan for it's blowing 15 and the chop is up to 3 feet. Sounds like there is a bit more protection on the mainland side but given that boat will probably roll a lot I'd need to quarter it to make things more comfortable to get across. It seems the southbound route would probably need to be Shearwater Passage to Comox for a south wind. For a north wind and coming southbound how is that CHB with 3 footers on the stern quarter? Seems like dead downwind would be better for that boat. This means Shearwater Passage to Comox with a north wind could become an very uncomfortable ride south. I don't know the boat so I am kinda guessing. I am hoping someone has some experience with that hull or similar hull that can chime in.

Northern Spy thanks for the reference about Cooper Charters, very interesting because it would eliminate the need to cross the strait. I'll be given them a call.

NComfort thanks for some stations to follow weather on, very helpful to compare forecast to reality. I've started to watch Windy.com to get a sense for how things play out with different systems as they move through.

We cross the Strait regularly. Definitely avoid wind over tide!!! If the wind is above about 15 knots opposing the tidal run, it gets very nasty out there, and as you know, even worse as the wind builds. Short, steep, and confused.

Depending on the "power" available, you may be able to "speed up" a bit to improve the ride with a following and quartering sea (I can in my boat). It can get a bit nasty in Malaspina Strait around and south of Grief Point when it blows hard as well.

If possible to obtain a boat you want from Cooper's in Powell River, that would be your best bet, as then, it is not as likely you will encounter the truly nasty stuff, although as stated, on the bad days, it can get nasty near Grief Point. Avoid Sutill Point (south end of Cortez) when it is blowing as well.
All of the anchorages should be almost empty, and you may be able to dock at some of the marinas, but most facilities (stores, restaurants, etc.) will probably be closed. If you need to provision for food (shouldn't have to if only out a week) there is an IGA grocery store in Herriot Bay (Quadra Island).
If you do charter out of Comox, crossing the Strait comfortably will definitely be weather dependant, and at that time of year is a bit of a gamble.
I can't give you specifics about the CHB 34 as I have never been out on one...

Based on our experience with the CHB 34 I would much rather be heading into the weather, therefore taking it on the bow or bow quarter. The boat becomes increasingly hard to handle as seas on the stern get bigger. It is due to a combination of the square stern and not enough power to stay on top of a wave.

Well when you cross the bar there at Comox you will find out real quick if it is a go/no go situation.

We have found getting fresh water and supplies can be an issue even in late May as noted a couple of posts previous by Tom.

Options are Lund, Herriot bay and Gorge Harbour on Cortes island. Don’t count on Refuge or Squirrel cove. Refuge is unlikely to be open and their taps shut off and Squirrel will likely have limited selection and you may have problems getting water there as well if the tide does not give sufficient depth or, as happened to us, the power is out....

Food you can plan for as noted but the water can be a bigger issue.

-Chris

Oh, you get me, you really really get me.... lol! When people ask what boat to buy I always say a boat is a tool and your experience will be better if the tool matches the job you want it to do.

Beam seas - As you can imagine, hailing from the Comox marina I experienced beam winds and beam seas. This, FOR ME, is why I am a bit anti-flybridge as the center of gravity is higher and the boat rolls more. It means that trawlers with more rounded bottoms are going to be rocky and rolling to the music, if you know what I mean.

Extra speed - I am always asking the person do you really really really want to go slow or would you like some extra oomph if you want to clear an area faster. In beamy seas and wind, I prefer going 11 - 14 knots than 7 knots, it actually soothes out the ride a little bit (excluding the slamming) and gets you through the unpleasant part faster.

Repetition - Again fortunate to have my boat in Comox but even in these wonderful waters the beginning of the journey is repetitive so I like to get over to the Powell River area faster, then slow down and smell the roses. I can go right to Jervis Inlet or further south, or left to Desolation. Or I can putter around between Cortes and Quadra, but again I want to get to the area faster. The extra time I have left over (versus the same trip at 7 knots) I can go further North or South and take in more ground (water).

I was at a chandlery in the Coombs area (Goats on the roof) and was talking to a couple about local cruising. I mentioned I had invited a couple who own a popular retail store in Qualicum out for a day of cruising, we'd go to Lund for lunch, maybe see the Copeland Islands then head home. The guy asked me how I could possibly do that and I asked him if he was a sailor and yes he was. So I said two reasons, one my boat is in Comox and secondly it is a sedan cruiser capable of 30+ knots. I told him for the first half hour I will go 30, then slow down to 14, then slow down to 7 and I can be in Lund in about an hour and a half.

For me, the perfect boats for our area are sedan and express cruisers like Cutwater or Backcove, low profile and speed.

One word: Tack! In other words, don’t take on a beam sea if you roll uncomfortably. Alter course to take waved on your stern quarter and bow quarter. It’s a longer ride, but can be much more comfortable.... Of course, your particular boat may cut nicely through a beam sea if you just take it about 15 or 20 degrees off your beam.... your boat will tell you

NorWyn said:

We have found getting fresh water and supplies can be an issue even in late May as noted a couple of posts previous by Tom. -Chris

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Water should not be an issue if you're half way careful. Buy a couple of 5 gallon jerry cans for drinking water. Good water at Powell River, Lund, Toba Wilderness, Big Bay and Blind Channel. Just be water wise with showers and dishwashing.

As far as weather crossing the Straits? You've received some spot on advice.

BTW, with a bit of planning you can go from Squirrel Cove to Blind Channel in an easy day.

sunchaser said:

Water should not be an issue if you're half way careful. Buy a couple of 5 gallon jerry cans for drinking water. Good water at Powell River, Lund, Toba Wilderness, Big Bay and Blind Channel. Just be water wise with showers and dishwashing.

As far as weather crossing the Straits? You've received some spot on advice.

BTW, with a bit of planning you can go from Squirrel Cove to Blind Channel in an easy day.

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Exactly.

Just be aware and consider the size of your tanks.....fresh water heads can also Be a consideration on your consumption rate....

Good advise from guys who live in that area and have local knowledge. You might luck out and not get beat-up coming and going from Comox. But if you charter out of Powell River as suggested, you are pretty protected going north. When you get to Lund, about 10 miles up, you are inside through Desolation Sound and to beyond Blind Channel if you want to go that far.

I also have reservations about the CHB34 - that’s a 45 year old boat and a lot has changed - and improved - in the interim. I would want to see a late model diesel furnace ducted into the stateroom(s), an upgraded anchor system, modern electronics - and of course it’s still a 7.5 knot boat. I get that the OP wants to try it out but this might be a poor experience all around.

Talked to the folks at Cooper charters and they have a CHB that may work for us out of Powell River. I like this option since it takes crossing the strait out of the equation and puts us a little closer to the cruising grounds.

Local knowledge is king, thanks for all the feedback. Fuel and food shouldn't be an issue but I could see topping off on water would be nice. I need to ask if the heads are fresh water or not, that's a good point. Once I figure out getting "there" then I'll definitely have some questions about where to wander. I'll most likely be the first charter of the season so I am sure there will be a hiccup or two with the boat.

Doug said:

Based on our experience with the CHB 34 I would much rather be heading into the weather, therefore taking it on the bow or bow quarter. The boat becomes increasingly hard to handle as seas on the stern get bigger. It is due to a combination of the square stern and not enough power to stay on top of a wave.

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Doug, glad you chimed in. When does it get tough with a following sea, is the handling okay with a 1/2 meter following sea or is the boat still okay with a meter on the stern?

Spinner said:

One word: Tack! In other words, don’t take on a beam sea if you roll uncomfortably.

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Spinner, this is basically what I am trying to learn, at what point do beam seas get uncomfortable in a CHB or similar boat. Based on my limited experience I believe 10 knots of wind and a 1 foot chop on the beam would be comfortable. 2-3 feet of chop I am not so sure if that is still okay. So at which point does my route change from a straight line to series of tacks.

I’m glad that you found a likely charter in Powell River. All the discussion has been about “getting there”. Since you mentioned that your schedule is tied to school schedules then I assume you have kids in school and you should or would like to be back when school starts again. What if the weather turns sour on day 3 or day 4 etc.? The pressure to leave on a cruise is one thing, but delaying has minor consequences (plan B, plan C, etc). Pressure to return by a certain date is a different situation and one that can tempt the unwary to cast off when real prudence would dictate waiting.

Even coming back to Powell River can be challenging, albeit with predominantly S winds at least you’d be heading into the slop. Last August circumstances more or less forced us to head south from Jervis to Pender in what turned out to be 30+ from the SSW. Fortunately we only caught the end of an ebb tide. Exciting? Definitely. Not hazardous but a trip I would have rather avoided.

Anyway, don’t forget you have to get back from wherever you go and if you have a “hard stop” plan accordingly.

Red Rascal
So, how are you going to get to Powell River? On a tight schedule basis getting to and from your charter point is an adventure in itself.

Re the question about when to start tacking. For myself (42 Nordic Tug), I let the action of the boat be my guide. If the boat is rolling to the point that stuff is falling or I feel like it’s moving so much that I can’t move around, I alter course until the action improves. Changing speed can also be helpful. Going downwind, you’ll want to match speed with the waves. Going upwind, it can help to speed up somewhat so as not to “wallow” over the waves.

My message is that I let the boat guide me, rather than a pre-determined combination of wind and wave.

As I have said before, I have no first hand experience with a CHB 34. However, I agree completely with Sue (Spinner). Conditions out on the water can be so variable (such as wave height, period, steepness, angles to your proposed course, how confused the seas are, tidal streams, etc.) that trying to give exact advice is very difficult. Experiment with speed, direction, angle to the waves, etc. to find the most comfortable ride in rough conditions. Have a Plan B, maybe even a Plan C (spots to "get out of it") in case conditions are too bad or worsen. Better yet, if predictions are for tough sledding, stay where you are. Realize that you may be late returning. Much safer and more comfortable that way!
Who knows, you may get lucky and the weather cooperates

Red, happy you found a charter on the mainland. Get some experience, enjoy yourself and the family.

When you look across the Straits and hear that whisper, she is calling to you. Sooner or later you will cross...

sunchaser said:

Red Rascal
So, how are you going to get to Powell River? On a tight schedule basis getting to and from your charter point is an adventure in itself.

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Oh come on Tom, we aren't THAT isolated.

Besides he travels in a Westfalia Vanagon. He knows all about leisurely paced travel. (I'm an ex-Westfalia owner)

If driving from Bellingham, can ferry to Island (multiple routes) and cross at Comox or drive up the Sunshine Coast with two ferries. Either way it is two ferries...

If flying can come into Powell River via Pacific Coastal airlines, or fly into Comox, cab to the ferry and walk on/off.

Feel free to PM me, Red Rascal. I'll send you my contact info.

Cooper is a large organization. They seem to keep the boats well maintained. I have no affiliation. If you like I can grab some photos when I return home next week. I would guess the boat is in the North Harbour currently.

A friend of mine used to charter his CHB 34, Amber Spirit (he likes rum). It was in the back pages of Pacific Yachting every issue. Not sure if he still does. I think as they near retirement age, and have adult boating kids, they intend to use it more and may have pulled it out of charter. I'll ask.

As far as weather goes...

Crossing the Strait of Georgia is always about planning and luck. Since you don't have to do that, you likely won't get caught in port.

April is iffy at best. Wind can come from all directions, or it can be dead calm with a bit of rain. Unlike the usual, predominately SE. The good thing about it, is even if it is snotty the first day, one can generally find a direction to go to get out of it. A NW wind can be heck once you are out of the lee of Harwood on the way north, but after that it's fine. SE winds can be bad here, but if it has a more E component, not to bad at all.

Careful of Sutil and avoid Mudge in a SE blow. Always watch for outflow winds from Bute and Toba. But once you are up in Desolation, or Lund actually, you can avoid most of the trip ending weather, by staying in the lee of islands.

A great book to read is "The wind came all ways" by Owen Lange if you can find a copy. https://www.starpath.com/catalog/books/1818.htm

I fly low level flights in and out of Powell River and Comox on a weekly basis, it is always fascinating to see the wind, wave and current patterns from the air.

I"ve never chartered so no comment on that.
He says he has 5 days, not much time to allow for ANY rough conditions.


To me However, any concern about getting to and from Powell River is a minor irritant compared to getting stuck on either side because of weather and rough seas. The to & from can be dealt with by a planned day for travel in the car and on the ferries each direction. Or as mentioned an airplane.

WHole lot more reliable than getting stuck on either side because of rough water. Granted all may go well but if not and there is bad weather he is stuck.

At least from Powell River with a bit of luck he can get into and out of Desolation even if the wind is up. The water will not usually be anywhere near as rough as in Georgia Strait or Malaspina Strait and will be on the nose or the stern mostly. Better conditions than broadside.

RedRascal said:

Doug, glad you chimed in. When does it get tough with a following sea, is the handling okay with a 1/2 meter following sea or is the boat still okay with a meter on the stern?

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Generally any following sea is more work and requires attention at the helm. This is not limited to the CHB but more a characteristic of any flat sterned boat with low power and small rudder. I would say it gets difficult above 1 meter.

Boat fell through so I am looking for another one. Got a quote from Cooper yesterday for the first week of April, talk to them today with some questions about the boat. They called the owner with my questions and found out the owner is currently living on the boat so no chartering that one until June.

Northern Spy, PM coming as I look for the Amber Spirit, I see Amber Charters in the in Pacific Yachting so that may be the boat you know.

Doug - Generally any following sea is more work and requires attention at the helm. This is not limited to the CHB but more a characteristic of any flat sterned boat with low power and small rudder. I would say it gets difficult above 1 meter.

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Thanks Doug this is good feedback, just trying to get in the ballpark on where that boat gets uncomfortable. I was guessing about a meter so good to have input from an owner to validate.

As for buffer time on our trip I am trying to get the boat back in on Saturday. But could slide it a day or two if need be. My wife really needs to be back on Tuesday to teach a class.

Thanks for all the suggestions and recommendations so far, let's see if I can come up with another boat in Powell River.