Reasons to walk away from a boat AFTER the survey

Hi all,

We are about to buy a boat. After the initial showing that did not immediately reveal severe problems, and later some negotiation, we have signed a purchase agreement and paid 10% into the broker's escrow account. Now we are awaiting the survey and sea trial. By chance two days after we signed the agreement, we got the information that the boat has had significant issues with water ingress from the deck. These problems were not new, they seem to be in existence since the boat was new, and there was one repair trial by the company in the beginning. The boat is now ten years old. Two years ago the owner was told that that need an extensive repair where parts of the deck need to be removed and so on. However, they decided to do some temporary repair and to move on. So far their temporary fix seem to have solved the problem or just kept it under control. However, when we saw the boat it had been on the hard for a couple of months and it was covered. So water ingress from rain or seawater was not a problem for some time, maybe time enough for these areas to dry up.
During the whole negotiation, nothing was said about that.
I am pretty worried about this and I hope the surveyor is going to find these areas.
If there is a real problem, can we just walk away from this boat and get our money back?

Thanks,
Chris

I would check with a lawyer on your specific agreement, however the surveyor works for you and if the issue is as bad as you fear you should be able to walk away with the only cost being the surveyor. If you feel the boat has been wrongly presented to you then perhaps the lawyer may have other options you can follow. Good luck.

The surveyor is working for you not the seller or the broker. Tell him your concerns.

Remember, the purchase process is totally in your control.

A standard purchase agreement should give you an out if something is reveal within the survey, sea-trial, and engine survey.

The only money out would be the cost of the surveyor and haul out.

In short, ask for the 10% back, or negotiate a lower price.

And, though we wish to keep a boat for some time, always keep an eye toward resale.

Two choices.

1-Walk away now.

2-Talk to surveyor and have him start with his tests for water and dampness and checking the hull so if there is water present you can decide whether to continue the survey or not.

High Wire said:

The surveyor is working for you not the seller or the broker. Tell him your concerns.

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By all means tell the surveyor at some point.
If it were me with this info I would use it to test how good the surveyor is and give him/her a chance to show off.

You say that the issue was from when the boat was new. Was this a manufacturing issue that was recalled by the manufacturer? I say this in case the boat you're looking at is a 390 Mainship. They have what appears to be a molded in swim platform that is actually bolted on and glassed over, and had some water issues. Mainship came up with a fix and issued a recall to repair the problem. One of the things a person looks at when buying one is if there are access ports in the platform.
John

High Wire said:

The surveyor is working for you not the seller or the broker. Tell him your concerns.

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hytedin said:

Remember, the purchase process is totally in your control.

A standard purchase agreement should give you an out if something is reveal within the survey, sea-trial, and engine survey.

The only money out would be the cost of the surveyor and haul out.

In short, ask for the 10% back, or negotiate a lower price.

And, though we wish to keep a boat for some time, always keep an eye toward resale.

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Welcome to TF!

I agree with the above!

Greetings,
Mr. m. What was/is the source of this information? Do you consider the source credible? The surveyor you have contracted should know about the particular model in question. Ask him about the "problem" and what the fixes should be and the effacity of whatever band-aid solutions have already been applied.
I wouldn't go to the trouble and expense of a full survey simply to "test" the surveyor or show off. He would be the type I would not employ.
You can call off a survey at any point and walk away at any point.

Maybe I'm a bit dense, but I don't understand this part of the first post;

"By chance two days after we signed the agreement, we got the information that the boat has had significant issues with water ingress from the deck.
- information from whom? the owner?

These problems were not new, they seem to be in existence since the boat was new, and there was one repair trial by the company in the beginning.
- what is a 'repair trial'?

The boat is now ten years old. Two years ago the owner was told that that need an extensive repair where parts of the deck need to be removed and so on. However, they decided to do some temporary repair and to move on. So far their temporary fix seem to have solved the problem or just kept it under control."
- was the repair a temporary fix of a permanent fix? Did the owner state that they only did a temporary fix?

Jim

Most purchase agreements I've seen do not tie the acceptance directly to the survey. It's a separate item number and typically reads like

Now, obviously I haven't seen your agreement.

Hi all,

Thank you for all your answers.
If I can walk away from this during the survey that would already be my answer.
The purchase agreement is a standard agreement from the YBAA.

Is the information reliable.

I would say yes because the owner made these statements in writing to another source. Also the statement about a temporary fix was made and also there is no information if an appropriate repair was made later. As I said none of that was disclosed so far.
Also I found a problem in the concerning area during the first showing which pointed towards water ingress. When I raised my concern I was told that that would certainly come from the nearby head/shower.

Do you have a copy of the written statement?

If you are in possession of the statement, it's your "smoking gun"

I know that boat sales don't have disclosure requirements like real property sales but something significant like your issues should have been revealed.

But it all depends on the language in the sales agreement.

I would not have the survey started.

Talk to an attorney.

You can also use the information to negotiate a lower price. The surveyor should be able to give you an estimate on the repair cost. If you like the boat and can get a potential lower sales price it could be a good deal. The surveyor should be able to tell if the core is bad in the deck by tapping it out even if the boat has been under cover for a period of time.

miraculix said:

Hi all,

Thank you for all your answers.
If I can walk away from this during the survey that would already be my answer.
The purchase agreement is a standard agreement from the YBAA.

Is the information reliable.

I would say yes because the owner made these statements in writing to another source. Also the statement about a temporary fix was made and also there is no information if an appropriate repair was made later. As I said none of that was disclosed so far.
Also I found a problem in the concerning area during the first showing which pointed towards water ingress. When I raised my concern I was told that that would certainly come from the nearby head/shower.

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If it's the YBAA agreement and nothing changed and nothing entered in section 7, then you can walk away at any time-before, during, or after the survey. You notify of your rejection of the boat in writing to the selling broker and that terminates the agreement.

Chris, Give the Surveyor a list of your own observations, concerns, thoughts, and special issues you want examined. If it gets that far.
Sounds like you want out, now, without the charade of going to Survey. B & B knows his business stuff. It`s important, so you might want to check the wording in your case by getting advice to confirm the legal position.

Comodave said:

The surveyor should be able to give you an estimate on the repair cost.

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A very dangerous game. Water intrusion into the laminate only shows its full extent AFTER you start cutting into it...... and in my experience it is ALWAYS worse than you thought.

As someone mentioned there may not be the same disclosure obligation as in real estate. I would still check the State regulation on broker conduct.

Sounds like you smelt a rat while you were putting the bid in, but wanted to believe the easy fix. Typical emotional buyer error. We like the boat we WANT it to be all OK. Can be an expensive mistake.

If it were me I would run. There's a lot of pretty girls out there. Find one that doesn't have major issues.

For goodness sake.

If the seller has not been transparent/forthright about one big problem; how many other problems may there be lurking??

And, if the boat has troubles that seem quite substantial... then... get your deposit back and run away.

There's a better boat waiting to "find" you!!

My ten cents!

Sounds like you lost confidence in the owner's willingness to disclose defects, but I'm guessing it was the owner who told you about the problem? A dilemma! I think I would wait for the surveyors opinion and adjust offer price accordingly.

Keep your focus on the boat, not the seller. You can walk away anytime. If the non-disclosure has really poisoned the sale, then the sooner you walk the better.

Hi all,

Thanks for all the answers.

It was disclosed by the owner but not to me.
I think I simply lost confidence so the best would probably to run ....

An owner/seller doesn`t have to disclose negatives. They may disclose one or 2 to appear fair. Likely fibbing about the source of moisture you found is not good. You don`t trust the boat, you need to get out. Get some advice on your position and move ahead.

BruceK said:

An owner/seller doesn`t have to disclose negatives. They may disclose one or 2 to appear fair. Likely fibbing about the source of moisture you found is not good. You don`t trust the boat, you need to get out. Get some advice on your position and move ahead.

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"Fibbing"...... ? How about: "The Karma bitch will rip off his head and crap down his chest?"

Defects which represent a substantial part of the value of the vessel are more than "forgot to tell you". That's being a crook. That's like putting 100W oil in the engine of a car that's about to blow up and selling it.

You likely wont know more about the next boat you choose...you may actually know less. Sellers have no duty to disclose.

Most trawlers have water intrusion problems somewhere. Some get fixed, some get "maintained", some get "worked on", some get ignored, and some get covered up.

I fixed a bunch that were undisclosed in my present boat. Some were "covered up" with decorative pillows and furnishings. I now think I am dry...but the boat could surprise me. It is the nature of heat and cold and sun and pounding rain and pounding waves.Etc.

Go look for yourself and see what you see and, if it doesnt scare you, then get the survey and learn what you can learn. Then go from there.

Stay focused on the boat. I suggest.

I get a kick out some TF members basically intimating that it's pretty much ok for the seller to lie by default.

Sorry folks... that way of selling an item is simply not correct.

Openness about sale of any product is the root of being right with yourself and with others.

Hi Art,

I agree. And, I was that way when I sold my last boat and will be again whenever I sell my current boat.

But, if I limited myself to buying only from sellers that made full disclosures -- I'd never have been a boat owner.

Too many brokers ask sellers only about features, too many sellers leave it at just that, and all too often the buyer has to do the due dilligence.

I dont like it. I won't do it that way as a seller. But, I accept it as a buyer and make the best of it.

Higher up on my concerns are the surveyors who take payment from buyers but really work for brokers.

gkesden said:

Hi Art,

I agree. And, I was that way when I sold my last boat and will be again whenever I sell my current boat.

But, if I limited myself to buying only from sellers that made full disclosures -- I'd never have been a boat owner.

Too many brokers ask sellers only about features, too many sellers leave it at just that, and all too often the buyer has to do the due dilligence.

I dont like it. I won't do it that way as a seller. But, I accept it as a buyer and make the best of it.

Higher up on my concerns are the surveyors who take payment from buyers but really work for brokers.

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True what you say.

One thing with me is I don't purchase used anything from brokers... except houses. I much prefer to deal with the owner of a boat, car, truck... etc.

I'm also not afraid to ask tough questions to the seller so as to be sure and see how honest they are. If I feel they are trying to pull the wool over my eyes I bid them good day, and make my exit.

Truth is the only correct way to exist... unless of course you are a congenital lier. Then you might want to entertain getting into politics as your life style. Just kidding - sort of!

Well unfortunately in boat buying there isn’t a legal obligation to disclose. It is up to the buyer to check out the boat as thoroughly as they feel comfortable with. Now if the owner outright lies to you about a defect they know about then I would walk. But there are only so many boats out there. And if you find the one that truly fits your needs and desires then it makes the decision to walk very difficult. But either way go into the deal with your eyes open. I love working on my boat(s) probably as much as running the boat so I am willing to take on most any condition boat if it is what I want. Most people are not in that position, either they don’t have the desire or skills necessary to bring a boat back. Tonight at dinner with friends my wife was asked, when will Dave be done working on the boat. She answered when he is dead or sells the boat. Either way, I hope it works out for you. Good luck.

I remember my dad telling me when I was young, "Andy, there are more pirates on land than there ever was on the sea"

Truly Caveat emptor.

The most common door out is a line in most sales agreements,, "subject to obtaining financing".

Comodave said:

Well unfortunately in boat buying there isn’t a legal obligation to disclose. It is up to the buyer to check out the boat as thoroughly as they feel comfortable with. Now if the owner outright lies to you about a defect they know about then I would walk. But there are only so many boats out there. And if you find the one that truly fits your needs and desires then it makes the decision to walk very difficult. But either way go into the deal with your eyes open. I love working on my boat(s) probably as much as running the boat so I am willing to take on most any condition boat if it is what I want. Most people are not in that position, either they don’t have the desire or skills necessary to bring a boat back. Tonight at dinner with friends my wife was asked, when will Dave be done working on the boat. She answered when he is dead or sells the boat. Either way, I hope it works out for you. Good luck.

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"She answered when he is dead or sells the boat. Either way, I hope it works out for you."

That can be taken in more than one way, be careful... LOL!!