Volvo or Cummins?

Ski in NC said:

The bigger Volvos are better than the smaller ones as they tend to be intended for commercial service. And sounds like a very interesting boat with the CPP and single engine.

I don't know what the parts situation is for that Volvo, never did much work on them. Suggest you call a dealer and ask if parts like cylinder kits, after coolers, heat exchangers, oil coolers, manifolds and turbos are still available. And for how long that situation is likely to remain.

Worst case is to buy the Volvo boat and if it poops completely, replace the Volvo with a modest rating Cummins C series.

For my new build 14yrs ago I bought a used 450C with 1200hrs on it. I have added 2800hrs since and it has basically been flawless. Total cost of the engine used was $14k, cheaper than the parts to rebuild that Volvo (probably, don't quote me on that).

Good chance that if running at 1100, that Volvo will last a long time until something like a cooler rots out.

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I think Ski has it right, and Mako builders also made a good point. Just run with the Volvo until it needs something expensive, then ditch it and install a Cummins.. Chances are that will never come to pass.

Then there is the 46 is better than 42 point to note. Hydraulic thruster is an unusual bonus. And that CPP is a big plus, IMO. Based on info to date, the Volvo boat overall is a clear winner!

I spoke with the Hundested rep in Seattle. He said their systems were all commercial grade and based on what he thought was in this boat it was rated to go 40,000 hours before overhaul. He said the systems were robust and simple just change the oil and filters and some greasing and you will be ok. Broker said there were some extra blades available. I asked the rep and he said easy to change by owner. I am not worried so much about the CPP, at least not now but that is why I ask for all your opinions. I think a good yard can do work on the CPP unit if needed with assistance form Hundested rep.
Thanks.

Sounds like the CPP would be ideal if you run in ice (arctic, Antarctic, Northern European winters). Break a blade then just change it out. A lot simpler than trying to pull an entire prop underwater.

CPPs are actually less efficient than fixed props, but you get to run your engine at an ideal loading at any rpm, thus extending its life and reliability.

However when I priced a unit for a new build it added like $25k to the build, if I recall properly.

Wayne on Möbius installed one, and could give solid details if anyone wanted to reach out to him.

Cummings, no Cummins!

A couple of friends have had Volvos. Both had the same opinion after selling that boat, they would never own another boat with an engine named after a woman’s private parts (they are two expensive and only work when they want to).

I’ve never had one but have had GMs, Cats and Cummins.

opinions...

I owned a boat with twin Volvos. NEVER again...

Very special 46 just came on the market called Wild Moose. In Stuart FL. Google it and maybe you will find it. Huge refit by the former owner... new tanks, ac units, boat is crazy nice
Seller bought it in '17 or summer of '18 I think he said.

Cummins Diesels

I have a 1988 GB 46 with twin Cummins BT 5.9. They don't burn a drop of oil, straight six leaving a lot of room around engine for maintenance, easy/cheap to get part and advise and all around simple to work on.

You can run your engines at a lower RPM at hull speed and probably burn less than 5GPH. On the other hand you can run at 18 knots at WOT if required.

Spare parts Volvo

Here you can see how many Volvo TAMD102A spare parts are out of production or still in stock.
https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7746400-26-2877.aspx
You can do the same with Cummins and compare.
I have 2 250 CV Tamd 60B 1984 running perfect and I have just renewed some parts and clean after cooler and all cooling system etc.
But more people prefers the security of two engines instead.
Anyway, enjoy your boat !

'Lo All,
Prior to selling my 46' sailboat and purchasing the Celestial (43' Albin sundeck trawler w/ twin Cummins BT5.9M engines), I talked with as many mechanics I could that worked on commercial shrimp boats (most prevalent commercial type here at that time). Once, while standing on the deck and looking down into the engine room, the mechanic was covered from head to toe in jet black engine oil - acquired from simply working in there. The engine was a single slobbering Detroit Diesel. I asked him about what engines he thought were best. He said for a mechanic, a DD; for an owner, a Cummins of any model. I had already spent lots of time working on Volvos (great engines when they ran, but was hard to get some parts) and Cat 6-110's (beasts) and immaculate DD's on a crewboat; but never any Cummins engines. When looking for a boat to cruise in, we saw a wide variety, but when we saw the Celestial, we fell in love with her lines and size. We were very happy to find that she had twin Cummins BT5.9M engines. We liked the fact that it had "get-home" power: twin engines - similar to our sailboat: sails and an engine. After buying her, I had a Cummins mechanic go over one engine to show me how to maintain it, then I did the other under his supervision. The engines' hour meters indicated a need for the valve lash to be re-set. I was truly astounded at how simple the Cummins engines were to check out, and, over the years, how little maintenance they actually required - just normal impellers, filters, oil, etc.. For the years we owned her, she only had one on-engine failure - an oil pressure sender. Never had to run on only one engine, but the reassurance of twin engines was required by my wife in order to go long-distance cruising. The price we pay. I did enjoy the maneuverability that twin engines gave, but was very adept at single handing the single engine sailboat with a Perkins 4-108 diesel engine. As you may be able to tell, I loved both of those boats. We had to sell the sailboat because I had to be able to get out of the sun (whole 'nuther story) and still be able to run the (a) boat.

TwistedTree wrote, "lots of people won't even get past a listing description when they see a boat has Volvo engines."

Me among them. Every boater I've known who has run Volvo marine engines agrees that they won't go there again, on account of parts and reliability.

Though I know nothing about that particular Volvo engine (and I haven't noted anyone posting with any actual knowledge) I can tell you that in SW BC, so likely also in the PNW, Volvo parts and expertise are available. I have had a failure that required parts. The failure was due to bolt on accessories failing, so no reflection on the Volvo brand, but the downstream effects required my VP shop to source the parts, which they had no trouble doing. Mine are TAMD41s, 1990 vintage, so much the same age as what you are looking at.
I also have a Cummins ISL 400 in my Motorhome, 2007 vintage, and so far have had no reason to find out how easy parts are to find.

Blissboat said:

TwistedTree wrote, "lots of people won't even get past a listing description when they see a boat has Volvo engines."

Me among them. Every boater I've known who has run Volvo marine engines agrees that they won't go there again, on account of parts and reliability.

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In our style of boat, the Volvo TAMD-74/75s at 480-hp each, the D9/500- and 575-hp versions, and the D12/715-hp engines are common as dirt in used/pre-owned boats.

In the 450-480 hp range, Cummins and Yanmar are common competition and each perhaps somewhat more popular. In the 715+ range, seems like builders have used MANs or sometimes MTUs.

Aside from cost of spares and so forth, Volvo hasn't gotten much bad press in that market... presumably because they're competitive with MAN and MTU supplies. I've seen mixed commentary about availability of spares; some bad, but the counterpoint has been that most everything is available from the 'net somewhere... with overnight delivery.

One Volvo area that's gotten consistently bad reviews on the sites I visit is the QL bow thruster, politely said to be a POS. (Second- and third-hand info, no hands-on experience.)

-Chris (with Cummins 450Cs, that I like)

Cummins.

I know this wasn’t the question but a GB 46 is a LOT more boat in many ways than a 42 (I own a 42). Beyond the engine choice and singles vs twins, My experience is that the 46 is a big step up in ride, space etc. and you may not want to discount that as “all things being equal” in the engine consideration.

While I have not counted the responses the consensus seems to be Cummins. There have been a few Volvo owners that have defended Volvo, although not really full hearted endorsements like “Volvo is the best” or the like. There have been Cummins endorsements like that though. There just can’t be this much Volvo smoke out there without any fire.

I agree that for the American market a Cummins is the preferred engine, but I disagree with the conclusions being drawn here. Blanket statements may or may not even fit in your situation. So here are my arguments, trying to be objective:

1) If it ain’t broke then don’t fix it - if your prospective boat has a nice healthy Volvo, and you use and maintain it properly, then what major parts are you expecting to replace? Pretty much none. Use the boat and enjoy it. If your mechanic determines expensive parts and service are needed during survey then get the seller to pay for it.

2) Resale will be a hundred thousand dollars lower - should be rather easy to determine the difference in asking price or selling price for your model with Volvo’s versus other brands. So offer the seller that much less and Bob’s your uncle. See that... you’ve already recouped your “loss” right up front.

However if you truly intend to go tens of thousands of miles in your new boat, then perhaps long term thoughts of overhaul should prevail. But then again, you may want to rethink if this is the correct boat in the first place for that type of cruising.

I know a guy with a 42’ that has Volvo’s. He was told there are no parts available to rebuild them, therefore it would be a total with different engines if one of his Volvo engines went down. Yikes!

I had a Volvo TAMD 60B. Wonderful engine, smooth and reliable.
I would never buy another.
Parts were tough to find and shockingly expensive.
When Volvo discontinues an engine, Support stops instantaneously and parts are limited to whats in inventory that day.

So the answer is clear: if you really like everything else in the boat and it has Volvo's in it, buy it at a discount and run it with normal maintenance until an engine needs parts.

Then re-power the broken engine with another brand of about the same HP, and use the busted engine as parts for the one that still works. Eventually you might end up with a double re-power. But there is also a chance that those old green things will last as long as you want to keep the boat. It depends on PO maintenance as much as anything else.

Thats the theory I tell people. It ought to work. In practice, if ever confronted with the decision I may well ran away just as fast as most folks here!

That’s sound logic. The problem is Volvo’s usually don’t break big. It will always be something small, expensive and hard to find. that can go on forever.

I will say it again, Cummins! And I say that as a previous Volvo owner.

Cummins

I have the 6cta8.3’s on my 2001 42. WOT at 2600rpms hits 20kts. We cruise comfortably at 14kts at 2100RPM and if we need to be fuel conscious 10kts at 1400rpms. Love these engines.

GB42SandraK said:

I have the 6cta8.3’s on my 2001 42. WOT at 2600rpms hits 20kts. We cruise comfortably at 14kts at 2100RPM and if we need to be fuel conscious 10kts at 1400rpms. Love these engines.

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I’m kinda fond of them as well!!! My boat is somewhat light and we get 21 knots with only about a 25gph fuel burn. That ain’t bad for a 41 foot boat up on plane.

SandraK on the GB42: So what is your fuel consumption at 10 kts, 14 kts? Not sure I want to know what it is at 20 kts as I probably won't run there much!

Gb46

Hey Pat, I note the GB46 is still available on YW. Did you decide on the Cummins powered GB42 or did COVID-19 get in the way of your decision? PS I like the 46. I love the hydraulic bow thruster.

WestDave - still looking. My plan was to go for the newer boat with the Cummins . Just did not want to take the chance with the Volvo. Yes that boat is still available and the price has dropped since I first saw it. Turns out the Cummins boat was sold. This is the second time I have come across brokers continuing to list boats that have already been sold, presumably to get leads.
I did make an offer on a GB42 with twin 6 cylinder CATs. But owner not negotiating and neither am I. Time is on my side. But COVID did ruin my chances on seeing another good boat back in May.

Pat T said:

My search for a nice (mid 90's+) 42 or 46 Grand Banks CL continues. Been on 7 boats from Great Lakes to MA down to FL. First comment is I can't believe the way some of these boats have been neglected. I'm talking real bad.....but I digress.
I did come across a well kept 1995 boat with a single Volvo TAMD 102D, 428HP. Broker called it commercial grade rated for 30,000 hours. Don't know about that but guy on boatdiesel said I will have problems getting parts. I did find parts on line but wonder about 10 years down the line? Can't imagine having a chuck of money invested in a boat and not being able to get parts!

Next boat is newer 2003 and has twin Cummins 6CTA8.3M3, 450HP. Lots of power for a 42 so my fuel cost will be high but I think better for parts availability don't you think? Both engines have wet sleeves for rebuilding but does that mean you could rebuild the engines in place and not remove the engine form the boat?
Thanks.

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I wouldn’t not buy either on engine reason. Both engines are fine, and parts for old Volvos are still available. It’s not a “hard to find” issue, it a ‘You pay more for" issue.

That said I would prefer the Cummins. I doubt it uses more fuel than the Volvo, it’s a more efficient engine, and you’ll use the same HP to get the same hull speed, the Cummins will just have more reserve throttle left for maneuvering and dealing with strong head winds.

In the end though, I would buy the better boat and accept which ever it came with.

You can do an inframe overhaul in either, but it’s rarely a good bargain with an engine that can be removed. I wouldn’t be concerned about overhaul unless one of them has 20,000 hours on it.

Single vs twin engines

The 42' GB with a single Cat 3208 will cruise at 12 knots and have so much room in the engine room it is hard to believe. A single engine has a lot more benefits then we probably give it credit. Not many of these were built unfortunately.

Mike Negley said:

The 42' GB with a single Cat 3208 will cruise at 12 knots and have so much room in the engine room it is hard to believe. A single engine has a lot more benefits then we probably give it credit. Not many of these were built unfortunately.

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How about a single Cummins at 370hp(just aligning it with your 3208 that likely has 375)?? Even more space!!

PS...I would think a 12 knot cruise in a 42 foot boat would be extremely inefficient.

Mike Negley said:

The 42' GB with a single Cat 3208 will cruise at 12 knots and have so much room in the engine room it is hard to believe. A single engine has a lot more benefits then we probably give it credit. Not many of these were built unfortunately.

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After looking off-and-on for years, I have yet to set eyes on a GB 42 with a single engine of any manufacturer, but I sure would like to! It would make the GB engine compartment so much more hospitable.

Not sure about that "cruise at 12 knots" part. I used to run a 36' GB Europa with a single 3208 natural. Lightly loaded with a clean bottom and a following breeze, it might have clawed its way partly out of the hole nearly to 12 knots, but only at WOT. It ran happily at around 8.5 knots.