Ford Lehman SP275 - general comments?

I'm looking at a listing for a boat that has twin FL SP275's. I searched the forum for threads with general comments, and was disappointed to really not find much.

There was one reference to "don't run them hard". Can someone expand on that?

In general, should I avoid SP275's? Or are they just fine? Any special quirks I should be aware of?

Thanks!
John

I have SP225s in our boat. So far they have been great. We don’t need that much power so we run mostly about 1600 RPMs and get about 9 knots in our 41’. American Diesel has been great for support. What type of boat are you looking at?

Thanks for the response!

The boat is an '87 CHB Sundeck Trawler - 40'. So yes, should be PLENTY of power. I would typically not try to push it too hard. Would be nice to be able to go faster than trawler speed from time to time (I'm currently spoiled with a modern cabin cruiser) - but I understand that a whole lot more power isn't going to get me much more speed on this boat!

Again, mostly curious if there are quirks to look out for.

I certainly am not an expert on the 275 since mine are 225s. I really don’t know what the differences are. Have you talked to Brian at American Diesel? He is the expert. The issues with the 225s are the intercooler. They are not available and need to be serviced every 2 years. I am in the process of bypassing my intercoolers since I don’t need the power and there is no record of them being serviced for ever. It is a simple thing to bypass the intercooler on the 225s, just run a hose around them and I will have 180s instead of 225s.

I also am no expert in the 275's either, but we have a similar boat with SP135's, ie no super or turbo chargers, just NA. Have seen 135's go 10-15,000 hrs if maintained. The 275 has the same block, so if run hard/fast I would expect a shorter life. But if run at 'trawler' speed you should see a long life out of them. Key is to know how they have been run in the past. Good luck - we love our sundeck model.

Edit - Found this on a 2001 post on 'Delivered Yachts' - "The engines themselves are ok. It's the stuff they marinize them with that
goes out. And that stuff is no longer available." Yes, that was 19 yrs ago, so parts may be an issue.

I love F.L.s bit am not a fan of turbochargers. I would bet that most break downs on the 275s are turbo related.

Also I am not familiar with how to remove the turbo and go NA but if it's a reasonable conversion i would do that.

Just one man's opinion, but I guess that's why you asked.

pete

Comodave,

I have not spoken with Brian at American Diesel yet... But if I get closer to purchase, I will definitely give him a call as part of the due diligence on the engines!!

I would be VERY interested in hearing how your efforts go in bypassing the intercooler. Does this effectively remove the turbocharger from the engine?

Please take lots of pictures and document what you do! Sounds like it would be of great help to many others!!

John

Removing the intercooler does not remove the turbo, just the intercooler. It will make my 225s into 180s. You leave the actual intercooler in place and just run a cooling line around the intercooler and you are done. I have not actually done it yet but will in the coming weeks. You leave the intercooler in place for the plenum from the turbo into the engine. It just won’t have the cooling water running through the intercooler so the compressed air will enter the engine somewhat hotter than with the intercooler working. The problem with the intercooler is that they aren’t available anymore and if they have not been serviced regularly they will leak water into the intake air and then into the engine which is not a good thing for the engine. So I am going to opt for the lesser horsepower and prevent the possibility of ingesting water into the engine. The fuel setup is the same for either with or without the intercooler. If I don’t like the performance without the intercooler I can just remove the jumper hose and go back to the original configuration.

I'd expect you could modify the air ducting a bit and re-purpose a different intercooler to work as a replacement with a little bit of work if needed. Even if you had to leave the original in place and bypassed.

These are good, reliable engines, but any engine will have a shorter life if its pushed harder. A chat with Brian at American diesel to get the lowdown on this particular incarnation of these engines would be a very good idea.


Ken

rslifkin said:

I'd expect you could modify the air ducting a bit and re-purpose a different intercooler to work as a replacement with a little bit of work if needed. Even if you had to leave the original in place and bypassed.

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But why would I want to? There is no way that I ever needed 450 hp and when I bypass it I will still have 360 hp which is way more than necessary. We like to cruise at 9 knots.

As a thought, you might want to check whether the fuel rack settings are different for the 180 vs 225. It's quite possible that a 225 with a bypassed intercooler will be somewhat over-fueled and smoky if pushed hard.

rslifkin said:

As a thought, you might want to check whether the fuel rack settings are different for the 180 vs 225. It's quite possible that a 225 with a bypassed intercooler will be somewhat over-fueled and smoky if pushed hard.

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Guaranteed they will be overfueled and smoky without the intercooler if pushed hard. But the reason to bypass is that they will not be pushed hard.

rslifkin said:

As a thought, you might want to check whether the fuel rack settings are different for the 180 vs 225. It's quite possible that a 225 with a bypassed intercooler will be somewhat over-fueled and smoky if pushed hard.

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Check post #8. According to Brian at American Diesel the fuel settings are exactly the same for both intercooled or not intercooled.

Although the engines may be fine, parts are VERY difficult to find. Of all the engines AD produced less that 10% were the SP 225's and 275's (there was even a SP 335). I am in the process or re-powering my boat that has (had) SP 225's that were de-tuned to 180 with Cummins 6BTA's.

Were the Cummins a strait drop in, or did you have to redo all?

And, my SP275 had an inner cooler end cap failure. A local shop braised closed the breach.

Also, Bolmac might be able to manufacture a stack for you. The issue is getting the end caps, they have to be made.

Based on a ton of research my general understanding regarding these engine is you just need to maintain them regularly, and don’t let them overheat.

(This is true in general)

I dropped the overheat sender from 205 to 200.

I’m also adding a raw water flow indicator and 200 degree exhaust temperature alarm to both of mine.

The exhaust temp will rise before the coolant, so an earlier warning.

Would the Cummins be nice, sure, but sometimes you just have to have a certain boat.

Good luck!

Comodave said:

But why would I want to? There is no way that I ever needed 450 hp and when I bypass it I will still have 360 hp which is way more than necessary. We like to cruise at 9 knots.

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I don't know whether you care much about what happens when the boat passes into new hands, but assuming you are alive and sentient at the time, how would you handle any disclosure about this mod?

A good once over would reveal the aftercoolers are bypassed.

It will be obvious since the bypass hose will be in plain sight running by the intercooler.

Yes, I disclose everything I know about my boats when I sell them. The last 4 boats that I sold were bought by the first person that looked at them. I go through the boat with them and show what I have done and why. I just got a call from the second owner of a boat I sold 3 years ago asking about some of the work I did. I happily spent a couple of hours on the phone with him since some of the work I had done was not obvious and he was quite happy with what I told him. He said the person that I sold the boat couldn’t remember what all I had told him so he called me.

hytedin said:

And, my SP275 had an inner cooler end cap failure. A local shop braised closed the breach.

Also, Bolmac might be able to manufacture a stack for you. The issue is getting the end caps, they have to be made.

Based on a ton of research my general understanding regarding these engine is you just need to maintain them regularly, and don’t let them overheat.

(This is true in general)

I dropped the overheat sender from 205 to 200.

I’m also adding a raw water flow indicator and 200 degree exhaust temperature alarm to both of mine.

The exhaust temp will rise before the coolant, so an earlier warning.

Would the Cummins be nice, sure, but sometimes you just have to have a certain boat.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

I added a Borel exhaust temp alarm to mine. Also it has 2 high water alarms and 2 Water in Fuel alarms in it. Borel builds the alarm to what you want, very nice to work with them. Simple install. Draws no power until it has an alarm.

Comodave said:

It will be obvious since the bypass hose will be in plain sight running by the intercooler.

Yes, I disclose everything I know about my boats when I sell them. The last 4 boats that I sold were bought by the first person that looked at them. I go through the boat with them and show what I have done and why. I just got a call from the second owner of a boat I sold 3 years ago asking about some of the work I did. I happily spent a couple of hours on the phone with him since some of the work I had done was not obvious and he was quite happy with what I told him. He said the person that I sold the boat couldn’t remember what all I had told him so he called me.

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I was just wondering because I hear of people buying boats with NO idea what an intercooler even is while thinking, "Gee, with these engines, I can do such and such," while in this specific case, they might not be able to. Would you worry at all about a potential buyer arriving with expectations of a fully powered engine and then shying off when confronted with something less after your disclosure? I am NOT pushing an agenda here, just curious.

Bypassing an inter cooler on Lehmans and Perkins Sabres (and Cat clones) is a relatively simple plumbing job. I had to do this once until boat back to home port due to a leaky after cooler. I was able to compare engines with and without inter cooler at real time. The biggest difference was higher inlet temperatures at normal cruise RPM with difference escalating as RPMs increased. Cooler charge air at any RPM is a plus and I chose not give that nicety up, thus installed a new after cooler.

Personally, I'd not run without the inter cooler in service for a long period unless I re-propped to suit the lower HP and reduce over loading. But, we really use our boat. For a low hour vessel docked mainly it may be a different decision.

Baker's point about over fueling is likely correct. I'd dig deep even if AD says engines are same whether Inter cooler installed or not from factory. On our engines the fuel settings, raw water pump, CCV setup and injectors are HP specific.

No, I am not worried about that. When people see one of my boats, the boat will sell itself. I way over equip my boats and they are in really good condition. Besides 225 hp times 2 is way overkill for this boat. If they want 450 hp, remove 2 hoses and hook the pipes back up to the intercooler. About 10 minutes per engine.

sunchaser said:

Bypassing an inter cooler on Lehmans and Perkins Sabres (and Cat twins) is a relatively simple plumbing job. I had to do this once until boat back to home port due to a leaky after cooler. I was able to compare engines with and without inter cooler at real time. The biggest difference was higher inlet temperatures at normal cruise RPM with difference escalating as RPMs increased. Cooler charge air at any RPM is a plus and I chose not give that nicety up, thus installed a new after cooler.

Personally, I'd not run without the inter cooler in service for a long period unless I re-propped to suit the lower HP and reduce over loading. But, we really use our boat. For a low hour vessel docked mainly it may be a different decision.

Baker's point about over fueling is likely correct. I'd dig deep even if AD says engines are same whether Inter cooler installed or not from factory. On our engines the fuel settings, raw water pump, CCV setup and injectors are HP specific.

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Where would you suggest I dig deeper than AD? They are the source for info on Lehmans. I will trust them. Besides we almost never run over 1600 RPMs anyway.

If you are really curious, you could do a test run with them unhooked and watch the exhaust.

On a purchase, insist on removal, pressure test, and a copy of the service results.

If they say no, then ask for $3k less—likely cost to have them built.

Also, get a membership to:

https://boatdiesel.com

And, check the Grand Banks owners forum.

Lehman

I believe the 120HP and 135HP had 380 cubic inch blocks and the 225HP and larger had 363 cubic inch blocks

SP 275's have worked fine for us

We have a 1989 Marine Trader with 2 SP275's. They have performed well for us. I too looked around to find information on the SP275's before we purchased the boat in 2015 with only limited success. The boat completed the Great Loop in 1995 with the original owner and my wife and I just complete the Great Loop in August of 2019. The inter-cooler and turbos add two more things you need to keep an eye on, but they are not complicated. We typically traveled at 1600-1800 RPM at 10-12 MPH. However, it was nice to be capable of moving at 17-18 MPH to make a bridge lift or last lock-through. They do smoke a little when cold and under-loaded, but that clears up once you have them loaded up. I am going to do a minor overhaul this winter to see if I can reduce some of the smoking issue (the mechanic believes we may have spent too much time at low-load/speed and we need to clean up the valve seats). Brian at AD has always been a great help. He told me to make sure the values have been replaced since the factory version. Brian said there was a recall due to value stem issues. It is easy to check that the stamp on valve stem is not an "L". I forget what the replacement stamp was supposed to be, but as long as they were replaced the recall work had be completed. I would not rule out a good boat because of SP275's.

We just bought a boat with 275s and discovered shortly after purchase it had leaky aftercooler cores. Bomac marine could get them for us. They were $1800.00 each and took about 3 weeks to get from England. We were told they had just become available again after 4 years of unavailability. We just got back to the boat after some yard work so it is not tested yet. Good luck. We are headed from Tampa Bay to the keys, then home to Texas.

Fantastic!