Throttle /gear controls. Single vs double?

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mvweebles

mvweebles

Guru
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
7,233
Location
United States
Vessel Name
Weebles
Vessel Make
1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Upper and Lowe helm stations on my Willard 36 are being rebuilt. I'm a bit short on space and thinking of replacing my old double lever Morse throttle and gear controls with a single dual-action lever. Outside of personal preference and force of habit, any operational comments? Part of my thinking is my wife, who wants to spend more time doing close quarters so I can handle docking and and anchors, would find a single lever more intuitive.

Thoughts ? Concerns? Any brand better than another, especially for exposed flybridge?

https://www.defender.com/product.js...ontrol&path=-1|311|2349031|2349038&id=1449917
 
I've had both and think your reasoning is spot on.
I dont have a lot of experience but my current single eng / si gel lever electronic Glendining has been flawless in my lower helm (only).
Others have expressed some issues but I dont know the details.
I wouldn't shy away from a boat with either but given a choice it would be a single lever.
 
Thanks Gents! Helpful. Kobelt is pretty pricey - not sure I'll go with them.
 
Personally, I much prefer double lever controls. They require less thought / attention to use in a docking situation. No concern for over-shooting idle when going into gear from neutral and the long throttle sweep is easier to be precise with (although some electronic single lever controls have a reduced sensitivity mode for docking).

There's also another benefit to double lever controls, although it's mostly relevant to carb-ed gassers. It's possible to keep an engine throttled just above idle while shifting if you end up with an engine that wants to idle too low for whatever reason and is at risk of stalling.
 
Greetings,
Mr. mv. I much prefer the double controls for the reasons Mr. rs notes in post #5. As well, I very seldom touch the throttles when maneuvering.
 
I also much prefer double controls for many of the reasons cited above. There are plenty of YouTube videos of folks over "shifting" during docking and ending up with way too much throttle.


Ken
 
rslifkin said:
Personally, I much prefer double lever controls. They require less thought / attention to use in a docking situation. No concern for over-shooting idle when going into gear from neutral and the long throttle sweep is easier to be precise with (although some electronic single lever controls have a reduced sensitivity mode for docking).
Click to expand...

This is where my mind was at, but figured 'old dog/new tricks' might apply so I posed the question to TF's 'bigger brain.' I'm slightly embarrassed to admit it, but when I've been away from the boat for a while, I have occasionally been guilty of grabbing the wrong lever. Rare, but it has happened, especially since the controls are on the left side of my flybridge and I'm right-handed.

Despite the personal preference, I will probably go with single-lever controls. I could really use the extra space as I've made room for a large MFD; and frankly I believe it would be much more comfortable for my wife/crew. I can get used to anything, and one of my goals is for her to do more of the helm-work so I can do the heavier lifting on deck.
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. mv. I much prefer the double controls for the reasons Mr. rs notes in post #5. As well, I very seldom touch the throttles when maneuvering.
Click to expand...

This is a really good point - on a double-engine boat, it makes more sense to have dual controls so the gears are isolated from the throttles. On a single-engine such as my Willard, that goes away. A full-keel displacement single engine boat often requires swinging the rudder with throttle-blasts at judicious moments, which is where the lever-mixup can easily occur.
 
mvweebles said:
This is a really good point - on a double-engine boat, it makes more sense to have dual controls so the gears are isolated from the throttles. On a single-engine such as my Willard, that goes away. A full-keel displacement single engine boat often requires swinging the rudder with throttle-blasts at judicious moments, which is where the lever-mixup can easily occur.
Click to expand...


I've seen some singles put the levers on opposite sides of the helm (like a twin typically would) to avoid mix-ups. Then it becomes left hand gears, right hand throttle. Whichever hand is free at a given moment is the wheel hand. Likely to be the right hand most of the time, figuring the throttle blast comes after rudder movement.
 
Make sure you understand how the single lever controls work when you have both an upper and lower helm. I think the teleflex one posted can only be used on one helm. To tie both helms together you need to go electronic or keep one as a dual lever or some other gymnastics.

The teleflex one posted has a mechanism that converts the pull/push on both cables. You can't simply connect the upper cables to the lower single lever unit and get the same motion.

Other brands might get away from that issue, but I have not researched that.

I too have a single engine dual helm boat, and prefer two levers for the reasons others posted. Also I have the engine idle set quite low and when maneuvering or sitting idle I bump it up a little, which is not possible with the single lever. Or inconvenient.
 
mvweebles said:
This is a really good point - on a double-engine boat, it makes more sense to have dual controls so the gears are isolated from the throttles. On a single-engine such as my Willard, that goes away. A full-keel displacement single engine boat often requires swinging the rudder with throttle-blasts at judicious moments, which is where the lever-mixup can easily occur.
Click to expand...

Yes, Twin engine I want double controls, could be because of a lifetime of familiarity . Single engine motorboat no opinion, sailboat definite opinion. Single lever are a godsend on sailboats where 80% are double lever at the steering pedestal with no rhyme or reason as to layout. Up reverse , down reverse, up throttle up, up throttle down on another. This is the stuff of nightmares in close quarters operating a strange boat.
 
Ski in NC said:
Make sure you understand how the single lever controls work when you have both an upper and lower helm. I think the teleflex one posted can only be used on one helm. To tie both helms together you need to go electronic or keep one as a dual lever or some other gymnastics.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this - I have a tech support inquiry into TeleFlex asking about config options. I'll update when I hear back.

Electronic controls are not an option (though I sure like them.....on other peoples' boats). Even if they were practical, they move the complexity meter in the wrong direction for my tastes. And above my pay-grade if/when troubleshooting is needed.
 
I wouldn't have electronic controls on my boat. I'd remove them if I had them. Same for electronic steering.

Single or double throttle/shifters. I have double and guess that given a choice I would stay with them. They just seem to be more precise and less complicated than single lever.

Just one man's opinion. (But I guess that is what you asked for)

pete
 
Pro captains often have to switch back and forth between dual controls and singles and between cable and electronic on a regular basis...sometimes multiple times a day. Most captains I know might have preferences but really can't get excited which setup is "better" ....even for particular boats.


The trick is not what the controls are, but a feel for maneuvering that doesn't require sudden or extreme control use.


So ...bottom line is get whatever you want and adjust...it doesn't take long if maneuvering is well practiced (or just done).



Plus electronic controls like many complicated things on a boat are handy for some things, necessary on some boats, or just plain overkill...but not necessarily bad for any one factor.
 
I heard back from TeleFlex/SeaStar (now a Dometic company). And I had a quick conversation with a senior tech. First, Ski/NC is partially right - depending on the cables used on the boat, their system may not be usable. SeaStar uses an intermediary mechanism: cables from each control to a central linkage, and then a single set of cables connect to the engine/trans. Kobelt's system has cables that go from upper helm to lower helm, then to engine, so there is no intermediate linkage.

Bottom line, this is more complicated than I thought. I am in the middle of a pretty comprehensive refit and have a ton of details to work through. I don't think I'll add to the list - just stay the course with dual-lever controls.

Thanks to everyone for your input. Really is helpful to have a sounding board for some of these things.
 
Hi Weeb,

Dual function single lever are my preference as well. I have two Kobelt 2046 (have to check to be sure on the number) single lever dual action controls. Bought them used for a project two boats ago but sold it before doing the conversion. At the time Vetus offered a "transmission" the cables went into to make shifting and throttle easier. Don't know if they still do. Also have the cable connectors.

I wil post pictures later if you are interested. Seem to work well. The chrome is a little worn on the arc shaped covers. Thinking of $275.00 plus shipping for the two if you or anyone else is interested.

Rob
 
I think the preference between single and double controls is what you are familiar with. I started boating with outboards, then I/Os, all single lever controls. The first large boat had mathers and I'm just more comfortable with a single lever control. The other advantage at least for my situation is we stern in to a tight slip. When entering the slip I run the boat from cockpit, it was relatively inexpensive to add another control head in the stern. While it could be done with a mechanical dual lever system it's not as easy....
 
With single lever control, it's too easy to shift past neutral or not stay in neutral long enough for the transmission to slow down. Some marine transmission require shifting at lower RPM.

With a double, there is a delay long enough for the tranny to slow when moving hand from throttle to gear lever.
 
Ka_sea_ta said:
When entering the slip I run the boat from cockpit, it was relatively inexpensive to add another control head in the stern. While it could be done with a mechanical dual lever system it's not as easy....
Click to expand...
Damn good point! I plan to do this in the future.:thumb:
 
Datenight said:
Hi Weeb,

Dual function single lever are my preference as well. I have two Kobelt 2046 (have to check to be sure on the number) single lever dual action controls. Bought them used for a project two boats ago but sold it before doing the conversion. At the time Vetus offered a "transmission" the cables went into to make shifting and throttle easier. Don't know if they still do. Also have the cable connectors.

I wil post pictures later if you are interested. Seem to work well. The chrome is a little worn on the arc shaped covers. Thinking of $275.00 plus shipping for the two if you or anyone else is interested.

Rob
Click to expand...
Hi Rob. I might be interested. PM me at mvweebles at Gmail dot Com.
 
Will do. It will be later this afternoon.

Rob
 
I much prefer single lever controls for simplicity of operation. I don't agree with the "risk" of overshooting neutral. Or the "risk" of not spending enough time in neutral while shifting. Learn your boat and its controls. My preference comes from experience with with both styles in singles, twins and triples. My current boat is dual lever on twins and I do just fine. Not gonna go with the expense of changing out to single lever. But, if I were setting up a new boat to fit my preference? It would be single lever.

I've also got experience with old skool telegraph, where you waggle the lever and the person in the engine room controls things. I guess that too is a kind of single lever.
 

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I had dual levers and now single electronic. I think they are both fine. Single seems a bit simpler, but as evidenced by posting either is just fine. I have not had issues, the detents are solid and when in neutral the red lights are illuminated.
 
syjos said:
With single lever control, it's too easy to shift past neutral or not stay in neutral long enough for the transmission to slow down. Some marine transmission require shifting at lower RPM.

With a double, there is a delay long enough for the tranny to slow when moving hand from throttle to gear lever.
Click to expand...

The reality is much different than the perceived risk.Is it possible? sure. I have seen peeps grab the wrong handle on dual setup, way more than go too far on a single lever, dual function control...
 
We went from separate gear/throttle controls to a combined Glendinning system (we have 3 stations).

I'll never go back to cables- I prefer the electronic controls. There is a delay when shifting from neutral to forward/reverse, but the delay is programmable and one quickly gets used to it.

Best of all, Glendinning completely supports their product line- when I needed a cable for my older system, they "dusted off the old machine in the back" and made my cable to order.
 
IMO inexperienced boaters have a greater tendency to over rev when docking if they have single lever controls.
 
Another vote dual levers and cables. I like the simplicity.
 
mvweebles said:
This is a really good point - on a double-engine boat, it makes more sense to have dual controls so the gears are isolated from the throttles. On a single-engine such as my Willard, that goes away. A full-keel displacement single engine boat often requires swinging the rudder with throttle-blasts at judicious moments, which is where the lever-mixup can easily occur.
Click to expand...
:thumb:
 
I had Morse single lever controls on my last boat. I hated them. They would stick at the most inopportune times. You would think you were in neutral and you weren't. It was not a maintenance situation as I bought the boat new. There were 3 of the same boat at our marina and they all did this. These were mechanical shifters so I cannot give an opinion on electronic.
John
 
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