Free Pumpouts Ending

The state of Washington has decided to end their grant to Terry and Sons for free pumpouts in the Puget Sound area. They decided it was not a good use of federal grant money. The service will be ending on February 29th. Terry is referring his customers to Pumpout Seattle, a for profit business. They can be reached at pumpoutseattle.com, or by calling 206-717-4997. I've known Terry for many years and this is a big disappointment for him. He has put his heart and soul into his business and this will be a huge loss for many boaters in Puget Sound. If you would like to comment to the state you can do so at the following: Contact the State Pumpout Program via:
boatpumpouts@parks.wa.gov
Rob Sendak
Rob.Sendak@parks.wa.gov
Cell:360-628-1876
Desk:360-902-8836

Right. The government only needs to subsidize pump-out facilities long enough to prove there are enough to satisfy the requirement to get a NDZ established.

Once it's established, there's no reason to ensure that those facilities remain in service.

Any reason why the business can’t be flipped to a for profit operation?

Pau Hana said:

Any reason why the business can’t be flipped to a for profit operation?

Click to expand...

People won't pay what it takes to stay in business?

oscar said:

People won't pay what it takes to stay in business?

Click to expand...

When we were living in Shilshole (Seattle) we had SSHead pump us out weekly in the slip. At the the time, it think it was $50/month. They’ve been in business since 1990.

My home marina offers free pump out to slip holders. Most marinas I have visited charge only a very modest fee, some as low as "free" with a fuel fill , some around $5.00 or $10.00.

I flush my heads with tank water and use very little per flush, much less than pumping in lake water. My 20 some gallon holding tank can last us for several days to as long as a week if we tie up at marinas and use their facilities occasionally. Not so long when we are on the "hook".

BTW, buy and read Peggy's book. My bilge used to reek occasionally until I took her advice to heart, mostly regarding venting. A full or nearly full holding tank does not have to smell.

pete

In my opinion, if a Government wants to enact "strict" legislation that is "responsibly enforceable", then they have to ensure that it is easy (or even possible) to follow it!
For example, Singapore has very strict littering laws, but there are street garbage containers every half a block for public use. The law (and penalty), coupled with the ease of complying has resulted in no litter on the streets.
No discharge zones are often a good idea, however, the rules must be relatively easy and inexpensive to follow, or the "temptation" to "come up with an alternative" is there, at least for some.

There are a lot of boats on the water that only have relatively small holding tanks (like Pete for example), and most have no real way to add capacity. If pump outs close, or additional ones are not added where needed, what is the solution? Stop boating? A silly solution when pleasure boating adds so much to the overall economy directly and through "spin off" business, especially when the overall amount of pollution caused by pleasure boating is very small in comparison to other sources of pollution that are mostly ignored or not adequately addressed by Government.

End of rant and I don't boat in Washington waters much anymore so this has little direct impact on me.

One of Terry's employees, Katie, started Pumpout Seattle in Lake Union, where Terry was not permitted to operate. He is hoping that she will take over Lake Washington and Portage Bay for any customers that want to use a for profit service. The Duwamish waterway, Gig Harbor, and Liberty Bay (Poulsbo) will lose out as well as his future plans for Tacoma.
Terry's grant did not cover the full operating costs of the business. The rest was made up by donations from yacht clubs, marinas, and individual boaters. He started his business when as a liveaboard in a marina with no pumpout facilities he would have to move his boat every week to the only pumpout in Lake Washington. He bought a used pumpout boat for his own use. Soon he started taking care of his neighbors and found the need for a real service. He discovered he could get a state grant and it grew from there. He was operating 4 or 5 boats when the state pulled the plug. Very sorry to see this end.

What is hilarious about this is Seattle and the Puget Sound region is rife with homeless who literally defecate/urinate anywhere they want and untold doper RVs that dump out their tanks into storm drains, which empty into The Sound. Yet boaters get screwed. How typical of the feckless “leaders” in this state.

porman said:

The state of Washington has decided to end their grant to Terry and Sons for free pumpouts in the Puget Sound area. They decided it was not a good use of federal grant money. The service will be ending on February 29th. Terry is referring his customers to Pumpout Seattle, a for profit business. They can be reached at pumpoutseattle.com, or by calling 206-717-4997. I've known Terry for many years and this is a big disappointment for him. He has put his heart and soul into his business and this will be a huge loss for many boaters in Puget Sound. If you would like to comment to the state you can do so at the following: Contact the State Pumpout Program via:
boatpumpouts@parks.wa.gov
Rob Sendak
Rob.Sendak@parks.wa.gov
Cell:360-628-1876
Desk:360-902-8836

Click to expand...

So when Puget Sound is turned into a NDZ and the State stated they would "add" additional pump-outs.....

I sent the above info to RBAW.(Recreational Boaters Association of Washington)

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

So when Puget Sound is turned into a NDZ and the State stated they would "add" additional pump-outs...

Click to expand...

Puget Sound is already a NDZ.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2018-04/puget_sound_ndz_map.jpg

localboy said:

Puget Sound is already a NDZ.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2018-04/puget_sound_ndz_map.jpg

Click to expand...

A new NDZ. The State of Washington told the EPA if they approved the implementation of a NDZ, the State would continue with and add additional free pump-outs.

RBAW Response

Received this from RBAW via email.

Thanks Thomas! We have already reached out to Rob and are awaiting his response. We will update our membership as soon as we understand the whole story. Best, Bob

Bob Wise, President

Recreational Boating Association of Washington (RBAW)
www.rbaw.org

408.218.4900

bobwise98110@gmail.com

Greetings,
Our home port used to be just outside of Elizabeth City, NC. The marina owner applied and received both a $$ subsidy and a state?/county? approval to install pump out facilities. Unfortunately (or so I was told), EC would not allow him to dump HIS big holding tank into the town's treatment facility, saying the formaldehyde tank treatments that boaters used would gum up their works.

RTF,
I guess they would rather have the boaters just "dump overboard"??

firehoser75 said:

RTF,
I guess they would rather have the boaters just "dump overboard"??

Click to expand...

Formaldehyde is death to aerobic treatment systems. (Literally, it kills the bacteria doing the work).

I have been running boat and RV black water systems for decades and I have NEVER added formaldehyde to my tanks. Always let the bugs do their thing. In fact on a proper RV setup I add NOTHING and never have a problem. A proper designed RV system should be odorless despite what the people making money on the products try to tell you.

On boats I will add enzyme based additives as there is so much more possibility of permeation and keeping the tank as healthy as possible is the place to start.

Some people still insist on using formaldehyde based products in spite of the science that shows it's a bad idea.

As far as the subject of this thread, there would have to be a prohibition against the use of formaldehyde and a way where the boat owner signs for the fact that there is no formaldehyde in his system and then the waste can go to the local treatment center.

oscar said:

Formaldehyde is death to aerobic treatment systems. (Literally, it kills the bacteria doing the work).

I have been running boat and RV black water systems for decades and I have NEVER added formaldehyde to my tanks. Always let the bugs do their thing. In fact on a proper RV setup I add NOTHING and never have a problem. A proper designed RV system should be odorless despite what the people making money on the products try to tell you.

On boats I will add enzyme based additives as there is so much more possibility of permeation and keeping the tank as healthy as possible is the place to start.

Some people still insist on using formaldehyde based products in spite of the science that shows it's a bad idea.

As far as the subject of this thread, there would have to be a prohibition against the use of formaldehyde and a way where the boat owner signs for the fact that there is no formaldehyde in his system and then the waste can go to the local treatment center.

Click to expand...

Blackwater from Lake Washington boaters will end up in same place as when Terry did the pump outs, the municipal sewage systems. Unless someone pumps directly into the lake. Too gross to think about.

Boaters will either use portable pump outs at their marina or take the boat for a ride down the lake to onshore pump out. Or call the the commercial boat that will charge big time because it is quite a run to south end of lake.

Formaldehyde was never part of the reason for discontinuing the free service.

Oscar,
Personally I agree with you about the formaldehyde. Never used it, never will. However, the answer to the issue you raised is not to "ban marine waste" from the treatment systems and there stop pumpouts! If that is done, where will the black water go? The answer is education of boaters (even those like ourselves who already know) about the problems of formaldehyde based tank additives. I don't think there are very many (if any) boaters who get up in the morning and say to themselves: "I am going to deliberately "screw up" the treatment plant today."
I know that formaldehyde was not involved in the discontinuing the free service. However, easy, affordable, access to pump out facilities is the only way to deal effectively with the "dumping" issue. Removing facilities is a poor decision. It must go somewhere. Just MHO.

Send your letters also to your local representatives, We pay a lot in Excise tax to the State of Washington general fund. With how they pushed the no pumping out regulations, they should be able to fund the program as many marinas and local governments where helping by offsetting the cost.

Many of the fuel docks in my area offer free pump out, just tip the attendant. At block island the docks do not have pump out but the state has free pumpout just radio them and the skiff swings over, again just tip the attendant. Would like to see more of the town docks offer self serve pump out.

Can't find attendants here unless they need to collect money for the business. (You do the service.)

I have done that too. Typically if I fill up I pump out at the same time, also if we see no one at the fuel dock I zip in and pump out when I am either heading out or in. I understand that for those live aboards this might not be as practicle.

In Reid Harbor, on Steward Island, San Jaun Islands there use to be a free pumpout. The only draw back was that it was a "manual" pump.....

And when the West Point Treatment Plant flooded OUT in Seattle a couple of years ago they dumped a Billion Gallons of untreated waste into Central Puget Sound NDZ in just the FIRST WEEK. While they did restore some functionality, they were still dumping tens of million of gallons a week for several months.

A billion gallons in a week is five million boats pumping their twenty gallon tanks overboard ten times a week. I know some boaters that are full of it but no one is that full of it. So, if My tank is getting full and there’s not a free pump out handy, I just call my boat West Point for a few minutes.

Guess it beats using a siphon.

Greetings,
Mr. 36. Sorry. Unacceptable to me. I'll pay whatever $$ before I pollute my waterway in spite of what anyone "has" to do. There is ALWAYS an option. You are part of the problem.

Along the coast of Michigan, according to my boating brother, free pump outs are the rule. Michigan seems to see a real value of recreational boating. Fueling, pump out and marinas seem to go hand in hand in Michigan. Small grocery stores have been established and although, Michigan has seasonal boating, the stores seem to be thriving. I dont know it the grocery stores and boat supply stores close on the off season.
If you are old enough, you will remember when Dairy Queen was seasonal too.

OldDan1943 said:

If you are old enough, you will remember when Dairy Queen was seasonal too.

Click to expand...

I'm fairly young and I remember that. Where I grew up in CT, there's still one of the old style Diary Queens on the original 1940s-ish franchise contract. They only started taking credit cards within the last few years, still don't serve food, have outdoor seating only, close for a few months in the winter, etc. The first time I saw a modern Dairy Queen I was a little confused.

For those of you not familiar with Puget Sound waters, the most predominately used boat is between 16 and say 24 feet... these are sheltered waters so this size boat works great for fishing, crabbing and just having fun.... On any given day during fishing season or summer there is probably a ratio of 20 boats of this size to one that actually has a marine head... Every one of those smaller boats will have a "pee can" and I will bet they don't get emptied on shore... Maybe the simplest solution is to use the "pee can" and not the holding tank.

There is no such thing as a free pumpout. It's only a matter of who pays. It may be "free to you." In this case, it's whether the citizens of Washington pay or the boaters pay.

Now, while it's nice to not have to pay, I don't see much argument any of us have that we shouldn't have to pay.