Re-Galvanize Spade Anchor

Nomad Willy said:

rslifkin,
Could you be more detailed about powder coating shortcomings?

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I'd expect it to work well until it wears enough to need a new coat. But unlike paint, you can't just touch it up or add a coat every few months to stay ahead of wear. So it might not end up with much advantage in the long run depending on cost of coating.

jleonard said:

I investigated getting an anchor re galvanized in the Ct area a few years ago. It was cost prohibitive because they required a minimum weight batch. They would not mx with another small batch (I think the min was 700 pounds).
I just re-paint mine every few years either with zinc or silver rustoleum.

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Get your chain done as well

Paint would wear off in a week for us.

Our chain and anchor rust if out of the water for 24 hours, but as soon as its all back in the sand it all comes up shiney again.

eheffa said:

I've looked on Amazon & all I see are aluminum / Zinc Rods. Do you have a link to the pure Zinc or are these the ones you recommend?

https://www.amazon.ca/Blue-Demon-BD...+stick+brazing+rod&qid=1578449686&s=hi&sr=1-5

-evan

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Here: https://www.amazon.com/Zinc-Extrude...r_1_4?keywords=zinc+rod&qid=1578552308&sr=8-4

Lepke said:

Here: https://www.amazon.com/Zinc-Extrude...r_1_4?keywords=zinc+rod&qid=1578552308&sr=8-4

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Thanks Lepke,

I see that Rotometals also sells these RE-Galv rods.
https://www.rotometals.com/regalv-galvanizing-repair-stick/

Even if one had the anchor re-galvanized it would likely still suffer gouges and damage to the surface and your method makes more sense than repainting the whole anchor. Your method would allow repair of the deeper and worst rust points on an intermittent as needed basis.

-evan

Lepke said:

Touching up galvanized gear with new zinc has been going on since torches were invented. I've been doing it since the 1960s.

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The part I question is your ability to heat the anchor hot enough to melt the zinc with propane. Sounds alot like you are repeating internet BS to me. Maybe you have a video or two to support your position. I love places like this... One's ability to type somehow makes them an expert.

GH41 said:

The part I question is your ability to heat the anchor hot enough to melt the zinc with propane. Sounds alot like you are repeating internet BS to me. Maybe you have a video or two to support your position. I love places like this... One's ability to type somehow makes them an expert.

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More criticism by this member directed at a fellow member. Not mere disagreement with another member but nastiness and a belief in self superiority woven in. Very disappointing.
You should know TF has an over arching "Be Nice" Rule. If you can observe that you will be much more welcome. It may be hope over experience but I hope you can.

GH41,

Just because you don't understand or can't comprehend that zinc has a low melting point, doesn't make it untrue.

You can melt the zinc out of a penny with needle nose pliers and a regular gas stove.

I like your post Bruce.

GH41 said:

The part I question is your ability to heat the anchor hot enough to melt the zinc with propane.

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Propane and oxygen are used to cut and melt steel, although I’ve only used acetylene. So I assume you would use these in a stick welder, not with a Home Depot propane brazer.

BTW, I’ve always found Lepke’s comment and advice valuable. The guy know his sht, especially when it comes to those lovely ole Jimmies

Northern Spy said:

GH41,

Just because you don't understand or can't comprehend that zinc has a low melting point, doesn't make it untrue.

You can melt the zinc out of a penny with needle nose pliers and a regular gas stove.

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Zinc has a low melting point
So does solder.

You can melt solder onto wires but it won't stick to the wires unless the wire's are at the proper temp
I suspect that the anchor may need to be at a certain temp before zinc sticks effectively.

makobuilders said:

Propane and oxygen are used to cut and melt steel, although I’ve only used acetylene. So I assume you would use these in a stick welder, not with a Home Depot propane brazer.

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Nope, definitely a flame

Does this answer any questions?


took less than 30 seconds to find.....

psneeld said:

Does this answer any questions?


took less than 30 seconds to find.....


l]

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A lot more heat needed there.

Simi 60 said:

A lot more heat needed there.

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True...looked like one of my rushed soldering jobs.


But it goes to show that the task is MORE than reasonably doable by any one of TF DIYers. I may give it a go afterseeing the video.



Whether it makes sense over other ideas...well... not the point of the video.



Materials for doing it are available and the company made a video to show that it's not rocket science.

This link gives more specific instructions and embeds the same video:

https://www.wikihow.com/Use-Galvanizing-Repair-Rods

I suspect one would need a MAPP torch rather than just a simple propane torch or a heat gun to get enough heat into the piece.

RotoMetal sells bars of a Zinc / Tin / Lead Alloy that looks to be designed for this very purpose. https://www.rotometals.com/regalv-galvanizing-repair-stick/

I think I will give this a try for the most problematic scars on the anchor.

-evan

psneeld said:

Does this answer any questions?


took less than 30 seconds to find.....

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Do you really believe that guy got the pipe to 4-500 degrees with that little MAP torch? Look at the results.. It looks like a chicken **** zinc on the pipe! Come on guys.. Quit drinking the internet shade tree kool-aid. No such thing as a free lunch.

GH41 said:

Do you really believe that guy got the pipe to 4-500 degrees with that little MAP torch? Look at the results.. It looks like a chicken **** zinc on the pipe! Come on guys.. Quit drinking the internet shade tree kool-aid. No such thing as a free lunch.

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Based on your posts I prefer to believe almost anything else.

You asked for a video and got it, you have NADA backing your camp of thought.

Just like the uneducated posts on composting toilets...anyone with a hatful of experience saw though your "ideas" on the subject.

A tidbit of investigation goes a long way in realistic posts.

eheffa,

ASTM A780 - 09 (Reapproved 2015) Standard Practice for Repair of Damaged and Uncoated Areas of Hot-Dip Galvanized Coatings has all the instructions you need.

I'd send you a copy but my IHS Engineering Workbench agreement will get me in trouble as all of the pages have security imbedded codes.

Annex A1 Repair Using Zinc-Based Alloys calls for wire brush affected area and the surrounding tightly adhered galvanized steel, preheat the metal at the area of repair to 600F, wire brush again while hot, rub the zinc solder on, let cool, remove the flux with a damp cloth, and mag pull-off gage to measure the thickness.

If you gob it on, just sand or file lightly to smooth (not a step, but I've seen it done)

You can buy the solder in Canada, but I work in industry. I'll see if I can find a retail source.

All but the thickness measurement can be done with hardware store tools and you can skip that step anyways...

GH41,

Is ASTM International internet shade tree kool-aid? I mean I did get it from my IHS Markit account, which is indeed internet based, so maybe...

As far as temperature goes, 600F is only brown red, so MAPP gas would be just fine.

How do you think field repairs are done to immovable objects?

Metallizing is great for larger areas, but mob/demob and environmental aspects are limiting and expensive.

eheffa said:

...I suspect one would need a MAPP torch rather than just a simple propane torch or a heat gun to get enough heat into the piece.

-evan

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I don’t know but MAPP or a comparable would definitely work. The flame in air temperature of MAP-pro is 3,730 degrees F.

Propane would meet the temp requirement easily....the question is can one or two torches spot heat an area on an anchor to get a good result.

I can't say for sure, but I would accept Lepke's word.

Plus the arguement isn't so much around the heat source as much as the method for a DIY project. Many people have access to capable equipment for spot repairs.

Given a big enough oven you could always use that to pre-warm the anchor some before taking the torch to it.

Or, the OP could go to Spence's marine in Sidney and find a very nice consignment anchor for "peanuts." Call ahead and find out what they have, or they could maybe find for you in a week or two. But, the anchor in question is a good one albeit looking like the owner is a true boater.

GH41 said:

Are you kidding or serious?

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We know Lepke has the experience, don't about yours. BTW, as noted by Spy and others metallizing in many forms is a well entrenched practice. PS, I'm a Metallurgical Engineer for whatever its worth and can't argue with Lepke's techniques.

"This message is hidden because **41 is on your ignore list."
A wonderful tool!

sunchaser said:

Or, the OP could go to Spence's marine in Sidney and find a very nice consignment anchor for "peanuts." Call ahead and find out what they have, or they could maybe find for you in a week or two.

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Hi Sunchaser,

Happy New Year!

I don't wish to make this thread into an anchor brand free-for-all discussion but, I should reiterate my original statement that we are totally happy with the performance of the Spade. As I know you do, we anchor in some remote very tricky shoaling inlets (think of Kynoch inlet) where one has very little room for movement between deep water and shoaling bars. The Spade sets almost instantly and stays put despite vigorous on-shore winds and shifting tidal currents. I don't wish to replace the anchor, I just don't like to have it blooming bright orange rust when gracing the bow of our boat and so am looking for a solution to what is mostly a cosmetic issue.

Our boat's integrity, the ability to sleep onboard and overall safety is too important to consider compromising on the anchor choice. (I've seen Spencer's consignment anchors and I'm not at all tempted to switch ;-) The choice of main bower is not something I would want to compromise on to save a few bucks. If anything, I would choose a Sarca Excel next time based on what seems to be better galvanizing and very similar performance; but, the Spade wasn't a cheap investment and apart form these cosmetic issues has never let us down.

I think that Lepke's suggestion of spot brazing or galvanizing with a stick and torch has a lot of appeal as the most problematic areas are really just localized scars where sharp rocks have damaged the galvanizing or where the tip and eye are worn thin.

-evan

Northern Spy said:

eheffa,

ASTM A780 - 09 (Reapproved 2015) Standard Practice for Repair of Damaged and Uncoated Areas of Hot-Dip Galvanized Coatings has all the instructions you need.

I'd send you a copy but my IHS Engineering Workbench agreement will get me in trouble as all of the pages have security imbedded codes.

Annex A1 Repair Using Zinc-Based Alloys calls for wire brush affected area and the surrounding tightly adhered galvanized steel, preheat the metal at the area of repair to 600F, wire brush again while hot, rub the zinc solder on, let cool, remove the flux with a damp cloth, and mag pull-off gage to measure the thickness.

If you gob it on, just sand or file lightly to smooth (not a step, but I've seen it done)

You can buy the solder in Canada, but I work in industry. I'll see if I can find a retail source.

All but the thickness measurement can be done with hardware store tools and you can skip that step anyways...

GH41,

Is ASTM International internet shade tree kool-aid? I mean I did get it from my IHS Markit account, which is indeed internet based, so maybe...

As far as temperature goes, 600F is only brown red, so MAPP gas would be just fine.

How do you think field repairs are done to immovable objects?

Metallizing is great for larger areas, but mob/demob and environmental aspects are limiting and expensive.

Click to expand...

Thanks Northern Spy.

I see that it's $40 USD for a PDF of the authoritative resource, but it sounds like it would be standard and acceptable practice to use the Zinc Repair Rods and a torch to repair damaged galvanizing.

(According to their website, the Rotometal REGALV rods can be shipped to Canada relatively cheaply; Cheaper than going through Amazon.com BTW.)


I will give that a try and report back here.

I emailed the Spade distributor shortly after starting this thread and so far have had no response...(Crickets)

Thanks for your input & help.

-evan

Question:

Can one use a regular (good quality) Propane torch with the MAPP gas cylinder or do you have to have a special MAPP version of the torch head?

-evan

The old MAPP gas didn't work with propane torch heads, the new MAP gas does okay. I bought a new torch with built-in ignition that runs MAP and propane. I never use my old torch head and striker anymore as the new head is so convenient.

GH41 said:

The part I question is your ability to heat the anchor hot enough to melt the zinc with propane. Sounds alot like you are repeating internet BS to me. Maybe you have a video or two to support your position. I love places like this... One's ability to type somehow makes them an expert.

Click to expand...

Zinc melts at about 800°F. A propane torch can reach 2000°F. The base metal temp is raised a couple hundred degrees but not causing glowing. In hot dip galvanizing, the zinc is in a melted state. All the zinc does is coat the object, not merge with it. Better galvanized hardware is dipped 3 times for a thicker coat.

I was a certified welder, all positions, most techniques, worked in shipyards, had my own yard, built and repaired steel boats and ships, but don't consider myself an expert. When I patch galvanized items I use a oxy-acetylene torch because I have one. What I was trying to point out is anybody can reasonably repair their galvanized equipment without buying professional welding equipment. Boats are expensive enough as they are.
Sorry about the videos. I'm in my 70s and a couple generations past the social media craze. My phone is about 8 years old and takes lousy pictures, I never tried videos.

Just out of curiosity I found this old (2001) version of A 780 on the web:

https://civilengineersstandard.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/A-780.pdf

It is almost the same as the new standard. New standard has hyperlinks to the reference documents and a bit more verbiage in the scope. Annexes appear the same.