Californian LOA

Hello,

I am trying to figure out the LOA vs model number for the Carver Californian yachts. I was looking at a Carver 506 and it’s LOA was a few feet longer than 50. Same for the Carver 44 that is a FSBO.. its LOA is much longer.

On the way out of the marina, I struck up a conversation with the owner of a 1990 Californian that was made under Carver (the HIN started with CDR.....) about fees for slips and such. He said his boat model is exactly the LOA of the boat, cannot remember if his boat was a 42 or 45’. I mentioned that Carver does not include the swim platform or bow pulpit in the length of the boat for the purpose of model designation.

I tried to find brochures for the Carver Californian or the earlier Californian but no luck.

Question for Californian owners, are your boats LOA longer than the model. Is a 42 or 48 really have LOAs of 42 and 48’? After researching the Californian, I maybe interested in a 48 at a minimum but ideally a 55 footer with a cockpit would be ideal. If no cockpit, I would definitely have someone build a longer swim platform for a Davits and ease of boarding. I have no real feel for the cost of an extended platform but it would be worth the $$$, if not unreasonable.

Thank you in advance

Streff

Traditionally bolt on features were not included in marketing size designations only molded in stuff like pulpits. Length overall includes everything.
It really doesn’t mean much except for bragging rights and dock bills. IMO interior volume is what’s important.

Welcome aboard.

My Carver 440 1997 was 42 lod 44 with the molded pulpit and 47’ lol .

The 70's & early 80's 42LRC Hull length is spec'd at 41' 8". Overall with swim step and bow pulpit is closer to 44.

A lot of boats in the 80s and 90s list LOA as the moulded hull length. I know the 38 feet listed for LOA on my boat excludes the bolt on swim platform and pulpit, it's just the length of the hull itself. So it's really 38 length on deck. Real LOA is about 43 feet.

My Californian was a 48 CPMY until the PO extended the hull. It's now 55 LOA right to the inch. Extension now houses the genset (moved from ER), 3 8D's, stern thruster as well as spare anchor and rode. Great boarding/lounging area and easy access to water and dock.

bayview said:

It really doesn’t mean much except for bragging rights and dock bills. IMO interior volume is what’s important.

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More about increasing your slip cost than any thing else.

I have the original sales brochure and it lists ASD as 47.11' with a LOA of 53.7'.


BTW Streff Welcome to TF

ASD Yours is a 48'? LWL at 43.7? And LOA at 47'11"?

Seabag said:

ASD Yours is a 48'? LWL at 43.7? And LOA at 47'11"?

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Opps!! 57.7'

Thanks so much to all that took the time to reply. The explanations make sense and help me understand the LOA concept much better.

One of the difficulties that I am finding is docking a vessel that does not have a cockpit.. I have seen folks use a lassomate or such.. I think that would help a lot... I am also intrigue with the idea of extending the boat by either adding a cockpit or a bigger swim platform. I will start checking on prices. The fuel tanks are also a bit small so maybe adding a cockpit would allow adding another tank?

The dinghy is up on top of the aft cabin.. not the easiest place to deploy and recover. So a deeper swim platform would allow adding installing one of those water-level Davits.

Thanks again. What a great group of knowledgeable boaters.

Streff

Docking my 44 acmy from the bridge was easy. You don’t need a cockpit for docking. IMO a cockpit unless large is a waste .

Streff said:

One of the difficulties that I am finding is docking a vessel that does not have a cockpit.. I have seen folks use a lassomate or such.. I think that would help a lot... I am also intrigue with the idea of extending the boat by either adding a cockpit or a bigger swim platform. I will start checking on prices. The fuel tanks are also a bit small so maybe adding a cockpit would allow adding another tank?

The dinghy is up on top of the aft cabin.. not the easiest place to deploy and recover. So a deeper swim platform would allow adding installing one of those water-level Davits.

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FWIW, our cockpit almost never comes into play while docking; 95% of our docking events are about forward springs lines to midship, bow lines, occasionally a midship breast line to get started... and then stern lines are attached whenever, well after I've called us "docked."

That said, our current situation is a double berth floating dock thing, and it probably won't hurt to put crew ashore (another thing we almost never do) from the cockpit onto the finger pier on our side... to keep the stern in, hold us off from the other boat sharing the same double berth.

If you mean visibility is the issue, some folks have mounted backup cameras?

Our dinghy is on a davit on our swim platform... and that's not without issues. Lifting might not be trivial. The swim platform itself isn't sufficient for the weight, so we added additional davit struts direct to the transom underwater. Backwash when coming down off plane needs some management. The name on the stern isn't visible. And then crossing stern lines at the dock get's a little hoaky. Et cetera.

-Chris

Ease of docking without a cockpit depends a lot on the boat's deck layout and the docking situation in question. For us, we have no cockpit but full walk-around decks.

On a face dock, for example, I'll typically place a person on the dock from the mid ship step point, taking a spring line with them. Then they can grab the stern line while I walk forward to hand them a bow line. A cockpit wouldn't really change that dynamic as most of the work is done from the dock.

Our home slip is a back in and we keep lines pre set. Bow line hangs from a piling so it can be grabbed and put on a cleat by someone standing on the bow. Then I step down to the aft deck, grab the stern line sitting on the dock and get it on while the admiral hops down and grabs the forward spring.

We have a 5’ long cockpit and find that it rarely gets used for docking as all the action is amidships with springs and at the bow, arriving and departing. However it is essential for easy and safe use of the tender especially if we have bags of groceries or other items. It also provides a workspace for painting, cleaning and other dirty work that is not suitable for the carpeted interior spaces. It functions like a garage/shop area.

I'm always honest when booking dockage. I just tell them I have a 36 foot trawler. They generally multiply that number by their transient rate and I just pay it.

However one marina I was at said I would need a 40 foot dock because of the pulpit and swim platform. Their docks had a set rate, you either paid it or moved on. It was high !!

What can you do? If you are into boating and have to worry about a couple feet of dockage you should probably buy a better anchor..

pete

Thanks again to all that responded. I have a better handle on the overall length of the Californian 45. I think the true LOA is around 49/50. The docking concern I have is not being able to have a second person jump on the dock to man lines so to speak since there is no cockpit. But the boat has B & S thrusters and I am definitely going to buy a couple of Lassomates or so. That would help a lot.

I appreciate ranger42c’s comment about the dinghy on a swim platform Davits. It certainly makes sense. It’s not the perfect solution.

I think I will price the cost of wrapping the boat instead of painting the hull... several brokers recommend the wrap.. will research it and see but it looks like a reasonable option that is affordable.

Quick question, if a boat is in a freshwater marina for 95% of its time.. how often would a bottom paint be needed? Assuming a good clean as needed.

Thank you all again

Streff

Streff, I have a Carver built 1991 Calif. 55 which is just under 62 ft. over all with swim step and bow pulpit.

We have an end tie and park on the port side. I hang a spring line on the steps for a quick grab. If we miss that, we quickly move to the swim platform and quick tie the stern line then move forward from there. We are still getting used to this boat. Sometimes I just put my wife on the swim platform and once I can get her off with the stern line, I use the bow thruster to swing the bow in so she can grab the bow line. When I bring the boat in alone, it depends on the wind and current. Sometimes easiest to get the stern line tied, hop up to the fly bridge and swing in with the thruster, then lasso a line I have on the bow, then step off at the stern and tie her up right.

Once coming into a different dock, the wind was blowing hard straight off of the dock. I could not swing the stern in for my wife to get off. I had to back the boat into the dock to get her off with the stern line.

Thank you RickyD for your process. I like the idea of having a spring line hanging & ready over the ladder. When you talk about lassoing a cleat, do you mean using one of those long lasso gadgets to snag a dock cleat. I was getting to order one of those dock lasso thingy before their outfit stopped shipping. I did see one on Amazon.. I always liked that option but my wife is worried that something gets snagged with the lasso and swings the boat in the wrong way. We are also still getting use to this boat. I am getting more fenders and possibly a stern facing camera. A couple of wireless cameras would make a big difference, I think.

I love your boat setup and perfect size. Beautiful boat!

Take care

Streff said:

Thank you RickyD for your process. I like the idea of having a spring line hanging & ready over the ladder. When you talk about lassoing a cleat, do you mean using one of those long lasso gadgets to snag a dock cleat. I was getting to order one of those dock lasso thingy before their outfit stopped shipping. I did see one on Amazon.. I always liked that option but my wife is worried that something gets snagged with the lasso and swings the boat in the wrong way. We are also still getting use to this boat. I am getting more fenders and possibly a stern facing camera. A couple of wireless cameras would make a big difference, I think.

I love your boat setup and perfect size. Beautiful boat!

Take care

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My dock lines are 3/4"and a bit stiff so I have a 1/2" line 1/4 the way back from the bow. I have a spliced loop in one end and pull the line through to make a large lasso loop. I give the bow impetus towards the dock and then head down from the bridge, grab the 1/2" line and lasso a cleat. It rarely takes more than one try. Then I cleat that off and deal with the rest. It didn't take long for me to realize that by the time I press the boat into the dock and then run down, I've already bounced off and getting to much separation. So now I just get her going that way so she is where I need her to be when I am where I need to be.

Cameras would be nice but after a while you do get used to what it should look like when your boat is close to the dock.

I have an 1989 48CPMY like yours and am about to get on a waitlist where 1 foot will dictate which slipsize we subscribe to... and will make a difference for how fast the waitlist may move.

I was told by the PO that we are 52 LOA, but was curious what yours may be. I think we have the standard swimstep.

We had an official measurement carried out last month. The boat is at 48.65 (this includes the pulpit) and 51.85 with the swim platform. Our boat is a 45 MY so a bit different from yours.

Thanks - most intrigued, how did you get that official measurement, is there someone who does this as a service? Pardon my ignorance on this.

I had the marina manager come out and measure by pieces. Swim step to transom, transom to cabin, aft cabin side to forward cabin edge, cabin to bow pulpit max overhang. It was a little over 61' for my 55. Now a friend bought the same Californian 55 and his marina measured it to exactly 60'. I pay for a 65' end tie so I'm not going to fight my measurement.