Insurance Sticker Shock

Sidclark · Nov 7, 2019

The last boat I insured was a Lagoon 410 catamaran based in Maryland. Insured value was $210,000. Cost was $1950 a year. Now shopping for a trawler with a valuation of $50,000 based in South Carolina. Got a quote for $1495 a year!

That's with decades of boating, a 100 ton captain's license and never a claim. Are you guys seeing numbers like this??

psneeld · Nov 7, 2019

That's cheap and I have maxed credentials.

My $50,000 lives board trawler is $2000.

wpc691 · Nov 7, 2019

Send a check before they realize they made a mistake.

tiltrider1 · Nov 7, 2019

Move further north or to the west coast and watch the price drop.

Arc · Nov 7, 2019

150k cost me 1,200. NY.

Pau Hana · Nov 7, 2019

Sidclark said:
The last boat I insured was a Lagoon 410 catamaran based in Maryland. Insured value was $210,000. Cost was $1950 a year. Now shopping for a trawler with a valuation of $50,000 based in South Carolina. Got a quote for $1495 a year!

That's with decades of boating, a 100 ton captain's license and never a claim. Are you guys seeing numbers like this??

Your last boat was in MD, we’ll outside the traditional hurricane zone. The new boat is well into the CAT zone, and the premium reflects the state of the market. The companies offering coverage in CAT zones is shrinking, and those who are playing are pricing the risk per the exposures.

Sidclark · Nov 16, 2019

Ok, so the latest quote I received sounds much better. The first quote was at $1495 from Geico. This quote is from Gallagher Charter Lakes. It's at $1000 dollars even. There are a couple of differences in the quotes. Here they are...

Geico...Can be in Florida during hurricane season (no plans to do that)
Gallgher..Bahamas is included in the coverage, but have to be above Florida/Georgia line during hurricane season.

Geico... $3000 towing
Gallagher...$1000 towing

Geico.... $3000 personal effects
Gallagher... $2500 personal effects

Both are at 2% deductible... $300000 liability...$3000000 uninsured boater...
$10000 medical...dinghy $1500

From what I can find on then net it seems folks are happy with Gallagher and 500 bucks is a pretty big difference...

psneeld · Nov 16, 2019

Pau Hana said:
Your last boat was in MD, we’ll outside the traditional hurricane zone. The new boat is well into the CAT zone, and the premium reflects the state of the market. The companies offering coverage in CAT zones is shrinking, and those who are playing are pricing the risk per the exposures.

Hopefully a quick question.

When you see quotes that are half/ or double depending what you get first...

I know some of the coverages might be a little different...but if just about the same.... should one trust the lowball quotes? You hear horror stories sometimes but if you checkout the company and they seem OK....how come the vast price differences?

Xsbank · Nov 16, 2019

$300,000 is not nearly enough liability. “Personal effects” 3,000? Really? Spend the money on liability and hull coverage.

All rates are up about 20% in BC now and I can’t even get any unless I do an out of water survey despite no claims. They won’t even wait until my spring haul-out.

Sidclark · Nov 16, 2019

psneeld said:
Hopefully a quick question.

When you see quotes that are half/ or double depending what you get first...

I know some of the coverages might be a little different...but if just about the same.... should one trust the lowball quotes? You hear horror stories sometimes but if you checkout the company and they seem OK....how come the vast price differences?

That was my thought also, so did a little digging on the net and was surprised to find that folks were pleased with the customer service and claim response.

lipets · Nov 16, 2019

raise the 300K to at least 500K

In fact put it under a umbrella for 2Mill on all your assets

tiltrider1 · Nov 16, 2019

Now we get into the fine print. Do both plans include consequential damages? Are both plans agreed upon value? Peter is much better at this than I am, often the price difference is in the details, but not always.

Pau Hana · Nov 16, 2019

psneeld said:
Hopefully a quick question.

When you see quotes that are half/ or double depending what you get first...

I know some of the coverages might be a little different...but if just about the same.... should one trust the lowball quotes? You hear horror stories sometimes but if you checkout the company and they seem OK....how come the vast price differences?

Great question.

It’s all about the coverages and deductibles. Ignore the $$$ and look at the specifics of the policy language and coverages. Only then should you consider the premium.

I don’t state this to push higher dollar premiums, but to take the focus off the cost. We all need to be dollar conscious, but in the end insurance (like fuel) is a relatively low cost factor in the overall scope of what we do.

And- I take internet reviews with a grain of salt. We have all heard the horror stories of “_____ insurance company screwing me”- but how much of that horror story is real, and how much is perception or attitude?

Mermaid · Nov 16, 2019

Don’t forget fuel spill or environmental damage, whatever it’s called. My Geico policy had about $850,000 in coverage for that alone. Liability was $1 million, hull value $250,000 on a 1980 58’ Hatteras. Premium hovered at just under $5,000/year for several years. Miami, FL year round.

BandB · Nov 16, 2019

Sidclark said:
Ok, so the latest quote I received sounds much better. The first quote was at $1495 from Geico. This quote is from Gallagher Charter Lakes. It's at $1000 dollars even. There are a couple of differences in the quotes. Here they are...

Geico...Can be in Florida during hurricane season (no plans to do that)
Gallgher..Bahamas is included in the coverage, but have to be above Florida/Georgia line during hurricane season.

Geico... $3000 towing
Gallagher...$1000 towing

Geico.... $3000 personal effects
Gallagher... $2500 personal effects

Both are at 2% deductible... $300000 liability...$3000000 uninsured boater...
$10000 medical...dinghy $1500

From what I can find on then net it seems folks are happy with Gallagher and 500 bucks is a pretty big difference...

Simple question. Have you read both policies completely so you could compare every detail of the policies?

If so, then fine. If not, then you have no way of comparing them or knowing what is a good deal. And, yes, you can get a copy of a policy to read before purchasing.

danderer · Nov 17, 2019

So much good advice here:

Don't shop on price alone or even first.
READ and understand the policy, not just the quote. The policy language typically isn't supplied with the quote - ask for it.
Don't shop on price alone or even first.
READ and understand the policy, not just the quote. The policy language typically isn't supplied with the quote - ask for it.

(Yes, those repeats are intentional.)

I'd add: Research the strength of the company. AM Best is a good source for this.

Note that Gallagher isn't an insurer - they're a broker. If you have a claim you'd be dealing with the insurer not Gallagher.

Pau Hana · Nov 17, 2019

danderer said:
So much good advice here:

Don't shop on price alone or even first.

READ and understand the policy, not just the quote. The policy language typically isn't supplied with the quote - ask for it.

Don't shop on price alone or even first.

READ and understand the policy, not just the quote. The policy language typically isn't supplied with the quote - ask for it.

(Yes, those repeats are intentional.)

I'd add: Research the strength of the company. AM Best is a good source for this.

Note that Gallagher isn't an insurer - they're a broker. If you have a claim you'd be dealing with the insurer not Gallagher.

Another excellent point to consider (bolded above); as a brokerage, we represent well over a dozen insuring companies across a broad spectrum (marine pleasure, marine commercial/charter, personal lines, high net worth, and more). As a marine specialist, I know the differences that each policy offers and use that knowledge to match clients to the policy that best meets their needs. Further, I can explain (in layman’s terms) the differences so the client understands what they are receiving.

This is critical- especially during a claim. Even though the broKer is somewhat out of the claims loop by design, he/she is able to advocate on the insureds behalf and sometimes move the claim along.

danderer · Nov 17, 2019

Didn't mean to diminish your role Peter - just meant to make it clear that the contract/policy is with the insurer, not the broker. I believe good brokers bring real value in specialty markets.

Comparing Geico to Gallagher is apples and oranges.

Pau Hana · Nov 17, 2019

No worries

You made a great point!

Sidclark · Nov 18, 2019

I've got a couple more quotes coming in, and yes, great advice to get a copy of the policies before purchase!

bshillam · Nov 18, 2019

Following as I too am going to be shopping, all great advice.

Art · Nov 18, 2019

Pau Hana said:
No worries

You made a great point!

Hi Paul!

Always great to read your posts...

Situation and Question:

Situation:

SAFECO insures our Tollycraft [and our RV].

Our broker is lifetime friend, reputable and decades insurance wise who we believe keeps our toys well covered. She also has truck and SUV well covered under Kemper ins policies. Additionally, our 15' Creatliner 50 hp o/b tow behind runabout is covered under our CAA home owners policy.

Recently I acquired a really cherry [like new overall general condition - but not started since 2001] fully covered inside "barn find", A 1988 19' "Blue Water" cuddy cabin i/o ski boat / runabout; 300 hrs. Towed her home, planning to have carefully put her mechanicals back in service by spring 2020.

Question: In your opinion... should we add the barn find onto homeowners ins or get new policy for it through SAFECO?

Any advice greatly appreciated! - Thanks, Art and Linda

Barn find:

tiltrider1 · Nov 18, 2019

Ask your broker if the barn find falls under the limits of your home owners policy. They usually have a cut off some were around 26’ and 50 hp. If you don’t fall with in the limits then you will need a separate policy.

Pau Hana · Nov 18, 2019

Art said:
Hi Paul!

Always great to read your posts...

Situation and Question:

Situation:

SAFECO insures our Tollycraft [and our RV].

Our broker is lifetime friend, reputable and decades insurance wise who we believe keeps our toys well covered. She also has truck and SUV well covered under Kemper ins policies. Additionally, our 15' Creatliner 50 hp o/b tow behind runabout is covered under our CAA home owners policy.

Recently I acquired a really cherry [like new overall general condition - but not started since 2001] fully covered inside "barn find", A 1988 19' "Blue Water" cuddy cabin i/o ski boat / runabout; 300 hrs. Towed her home, planning to have carefully put her mechanicals back in service by spring 2020.

Question: In your opinion... should we add the barn find onto homeowners ins or get new policy for it through SAFECO?

Any advice greatly appreciated! - Thanks, Art and Linda

Barn find:

Hi, Art,

I'd move your Crestliner off your homeowner's policy, and place it and the new acquisition onto vessel policies. Your homeowner's policy has limited/nonexistent marine related coverages such as pollution, salvage, wreck removal, and more. Thus, if you have one of these types of losses, you are out of pocket for the loss.

At least the Safeco vessel insurance policy has some pollution coverage (but it is not a standalone coverage- it is part of the overall marine liability coverage.) In reading the Safeco policy, I also don't see where they cover salvage or wreck removal.

Art · Nov 18, 2019

Pau Hana said:
Hi, Art,

I'd move your Crestliner off your homeowner's policy, and place it and the new acquisition onto vessel policies. Your homeowner's policy has limited/nonexistent marine related coverages such as pollution, salvage, wreck removal, and more. Thus, if you have one of these types of losses, you are out of pocket for the loss.

At least the Safeco vessel insurance policy has some pollution coverage (but it is not a standalone coverage- it is part of the overall marine liability coverage.) In reading the Safeco policy, I also don't see where they cover salvage or wreck removal.

Thanks Paul - Been many years since I've closely reviewed our SAFECO vessel policy [most recent document is on boat 100 miles away - or I'd reread it today!]. Will email our broker about salvage/wreck coverage on the Tollycraft... seems to me that coverage was in the policy... But???

Regarding the two smaller boats:

Such as was mentioned in "Tiltrider1" post above yours... I guess homeowner ins coverage limits the LOA and HP they will cover; kinda recall that being mentioned when we put the little 15', 50 HP o/b Crestliner onto the HO policy.

I'll put the "Barn Find" onto the SAFECO vessel policy. By so doing it will give me good chance to more closely review their entire vessel policy.

Happy Boat-Ins Daze! - Art :speed boat:

Pau Hana · Nov 18, 2019

Art said:
Thanks Paul - Been many years since I've closely reviewed our SAFECO vessel policy [most recent document is on boat 100 miles away - or I'd reread it today!]. Will email our broker about salvage/wreck coverage on the Tollycraft... seems to me that coverage was in the policy... But???

Regarding the two smaller boats:

Such as was mentioned in "Tiltrider1" post above yours... I guess homeowner ins coverage limits the LOA and HP they will cover; kinda recall that being mentioned when we put the little 15', 50 HP o/b Crestliner onto the HO policy.

I'll put the "Barn Find" onto the SAFECO vessel policy. By so doing it will give me good chance to more closely review their entire vessel policy.

Happy Boat-Ins Daze! - Art

My pleasure! By way of comparison, my 15' Whaler Montauk with 60hp Mercury is $200/year at $30k coverage (yacht policy, agreed value) with trailer.

Bryant · Nov 22, 2019

Insurance.

Sidclark said:
The last boat I insured was a Lagoon 410 catamaran based in Maryland. Insured value was $210,000. Cost was $1950 a year. Now shopping for a trawler with a valuation of $50,000 based in South Carolina. Got a quote for $1495 a year!

That's with decades of boating, a 100 ton captain's license and never a claim. Are you guys seeing numbers like this??

Contact Geico. I’m in Fl. Agreed upon value of $96.5k. Depreciation rider. Annual cost $2500. Every area is different but I think you will do better with them than anyone.

Bryant · Nov 22, 2019

Insurance

Sidclark said:
Ok, so the latest quote I received sounds much better. The first quote was at $1495 from Geico. This quote is from Gallagher Charter Lakes. It's at $1000 dollars even. There are a couple of differences in the quotes. Here they are...

Geico...Can be in Florida during hurricane season (no plans to do that)
Gallgher..Bahamas is included in the coverage, but have to be above Florida/Georgia line during hurricane season.

Geico... $3000 towing
Gallagher...$1000 towing

Geico.... $3000 personal effects
Gallagher... $2500 personal effects

Both are at 2% deductible... $300000 liability...$3000000 uninsured boater...
$10000 medical...dinghy $1500

From what I can find on then net it seems folks are happy with Gallagher and 500 bucks is a pretty big difference...

You need $500k of liability, $950k for environmental cleanup and $950k for salvage and recovery, all of which Geico has. I almost switched to Allstate based upon cost till I discovered their salvage limit is 5% of the boat value. On a $100k boat that’s $5k which won’t pay for salvage. Make sure you compare every type of coverage item for item. You will find there are vast differences in the details.

garychurch · Nov 22, 2019

The posts contain some very good advice.

For example, look first at coverage, then look to the insurance company rating. Cost should be the last consideration. What good is insurance if the insurance company doesn't honor a claim?

Pau Hana · Nov 23, 2019

Bryant said:
You need $500k of liability, $950k for environmental cleanup and $950k for salvage and recovery, all of which Geico has. I almost switched to Allstate based upon cost till I discovered their salvage limit is 5% of the boat value. On a $100k boat that’s $5k which won’t pay for salvage. Make sure you compare every type of coverage item for item. You will find there are vast differences in the details.

Hi, Bryant,

A few corrections, if I may:

I agree that liab coverage should be a minimum of $500k, but for some $300k is more than adequate.
GEICO has $939,800 (being increased to $997,100 per the latest amendment to the Oil Pollution Act of 1990.
GEICO does not have $950k of salvage coverage. I’ll pull the policy language when I wake up, but I believe that GEICO’s salvage is equal to the hull value (I’ll confirm shortly).

Allstate is OK for a small boat on a trailer in the garage worth $1000 (Allstate is an ACV policy), but for a boat like yours, they are non bueno.

Insurance Sticker Shock

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