Boat AirBnB?

Thinking about future uses of the boat to make a little money to offset some expenses. I have heard some people AirBnB their boats as they travel. What would be the issues with doing this? Insurance is one. Would a captain license and CG cert for passenger duty be required, if the boat remains docked with guests onboard? I could do this under my SC business license (LLC) but what about outside of SC waters?


I know some people "accept donations" for rides to offset their costs. This is a gray area at best and possibly a bad deal if things go bad.

I used to insure these types of risks- the key words are “used to”.

No matter the contract, it was inevitable that a guest would try to operate the boat, or not comply with the contract. High loss ratios in this line of insurance- not worth it, so we dropped the coverage.

Your standard vessel insurance policy will not cover this type of vessel usage, as it is a commercial usage.

Insurance, licensing and liability issues will be your biggest problem. For land based rentals, some maybe most insurance companies will cover occasional guests, or if not I think AirBnB does. But for a boat, I am pretty sure that any insurance company will quote their policy where it says "no coverage for commercial use" And renting is commercial use. Will AirBnB cover you then? Better talk to AirBnB and get it in writing.


I don't think the captain rules apply to boats docked at a marina. But they sure do once you get underway. You will need at least a 6 pack license.


David

Greetings,
Mr. b2. Is it really worth the potential hassle for any income you may generate? Extra laundry. Clogged/flooded heads. Damages, either accidental or willful. Guests slipping on a wet deck and resultant injuries. Extra wear and tear on the boat, in general...



To accept those type of things, personally, I'd only feel comfortable charging $5000/night and THAT'S with multiple good references and better insurance.


Where oh where are you going to put guests on a 28' boat?

At Stock Island Marina they allow boats to be used for BNBs, and they split the fee. Not sure how it is done, but alot of catamarans and some trawlers are doing it. Even had a wedding on one in 100 degree heat.

I think it works cause hotel costs can be $250+/night. Boats seldom left the dock, some probably couldn't.

Choices said:

At Stock Island Marina they allow boats to be used for BNBs, and they split the fee. Not sure how it is done, but alot of catamarans and some trawlers are doing it. Even had a wedding on one in 100 degree heat.

I think it works cause hotel costs can be $250+/night. Boats seldom left the dock, some probably couldn't.

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Interesting- does Stock Island Marina cover the insurance risks?

Just because the marina permits it does not mean the insurance will automatically cover the exposure.

We used to require the following:

• The vessel must be operational in all aspects, but be disabled so the overnight guest could not take the vessel out.
• No BBQ or cooking fuel onboard- microwave usage only.
• The vessel must be under the care of an on-site manager at all times.

And we still had problems.

No idea. Would not let anyone stay on my boat without me.

djmarchand said:

I don't think the captain rules apply to boats docked at a marina. But they sure do once you get underway. You will need at least a 6 pack license.


David

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Considerable legal debate over this. Some CG officers have taken the firm stance that if a captain or owner is on board, it's a charter and subject to all the rules of chartering, whether it moves or not.

There are sites covering person to person rentals. Boatsetter is one such site and they offer a Boat US Peer-to-Peer Insurance policy through Geico. Now, this may be something Pau Hana is saying is no longer offered.

The issue with a boat is that it's just no user friendly like a house. Too many "boat specific" things that need to be done. Operation of the head for starters, electrical, AC, and on and on.


So you need to educate the guess. Too much of a PITA.



One would be MUCH better to just charter the boat out with an experienced captain and do things right.



For and Ab&b I could argue to just have a house. You'll get pretty close to the same revenue, have WAY less issues and much easier.

BandB said:

Considerable legal debate over this. Some CG officers have taken the firm stance that if a captain or owner is on board, it's a charter and subject to all the rules of chartering, whether it moves or not.

There are sites covering person to person rentals. Boatsetter is one such site and they offer a Boat US Peer-to-Peer Insurance policy through Geico. Now, this may be something Pau Hana is saying is no longer offered.

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The peer-to-peer rental program is still available; it’s a different program from the one I ran. Peer-to-peer requires the vessel owner to have 2 policies- a private pleasure program, AND a bareboat policy for the peer-to-peer usage.

These are day usage only.

I've seen AirBNB listings for boats. Usually they say that no attempt is to be made to operate the boat away from the slip.

If you wanted to take the boat out, it'd be a charter and a whole different sort of deal.

If it were my boat I'd disable the engine somehow just to be sure. Maybe have one of the mooring lines be a locked chain.

USCG Regulations typically use the term "passengers for hire" when referencing charters, which the typical meaning would be transport or "passage."

Also I note on my Ocean Operator License that I am Licensed to "operate and navigate," not really specifying dockside use.

USCG Regulations do not typically apply to vessels taking 6 "passengers" or less.

There used to be a MacGregor 36 catamaran, basically a Hobie Cat on steroids, listed on Airbnb in the Lower Keys, it was moored and had a tent pitched on the trampoline and you got to it on a kayak. I guess it would be billed as "adventure lodging."

I don't know about how insurance would impact these rentals, but Airbnb seems to be kind of successful and liability exists in any accommodation rental, perhaps they have an insurance program or a requirement for a minimum liability policy.

I have use Airbnb in trips to Europe and have always been happy with the accommodations. The properties have always been accurately described and almost always overdelivered.

I wouldn't even trust a dumb dirt dwelling monkey to operate a toilet let alone anything else aboard.

Quite a few of the old square riggers and other attraction boats (Bounty as a good example) are inspected and approved as dockside attractions only. In other words, they are not sufficiently seaworthy to carry passengers beyond what a 6-pack allows.


By implication, this means that as soon as a paying person sets foot on the boat, it's subject to passenger vessel regs. Even if you can get away with it otherwise, should there be an issue l(law suit) you can be sure this will come up, and work against you. So I would assume you need to meet all the charter requirements, just like if the boat were to leave the dock.


I think the Air B&B thing could work, but not as a casual dabble. You would have to figure in all the costs to make it a ligit operation, and rent enough time to make it all pay. I don't know how much rental time would be required, but I'd guess it would be significant, require marketing and promotion, etc. When something looks like free and easy money, you can be pretty sure it isn't. There is a reason we call it "work".

Nope couldn’t do it. Too much time and money went into my boat.

There are quite a few things you can do to pick up some extra money especially now with the holidays around the corner and most of those things are a lot easier than running a weekly rental on your boat!

Keysdisease said:

USCG Regulations typically use the term "passengers for hire" when referencing charters, which the typical meaning would be transport or "passage."

Also I note on my Ocean Operator License that I am Licensed to "operate and navigate," not really specifying dockside use.

USCG Regulations do not typically apply to vessels taking 6 "passengers" or less.

There used to be a MacGregor 36 catamaran, basically a Hobie Cat on steroids, listed on Airbnb in the Lower Keys, it was moored and had a tent pitched on the trampoline and you got to it on a kayak. I guess it would be billed as "adventure lodging."

I don't know about how insurance would impact these rentals, but Airbnb seems to be kind of successful and liability exists in any accommodation rental, perhaps they have an insurance program or a requirement for a minimum liability policy.

I have use Airbnb in trips to Europe and have always been happy with the accommodations. The properties have always been accurately described and almost always overdelivered.

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USCG regulations certainly do apply for OUPV or ANY charter operation. In the 6 pack world, the license holder must be in direct command of the vessel at all times per 46 USC.

Twistedtree is absolutely correct in that USCG parameters for passenger vessels apply whether the vessel is dockside or underway as soon as payment is taken. A San Diego maritime attorney tackled this question in the Log newspaper in San Diego Back in 2009:

https://www.thelog.com/ask-the-atto...ules-apply-to-a-boat-and-breakfast-operation/

Choices said:

No idea. Would not let anyone stay on my boat without me.

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Hotel rooms get trashed by 'guests' Think what they could do to your boat.

The only possible way you could make money is if the boat was big enough that you could stay on the boat to supervise the 'guests' and that's another can of worms with your insurance company and the USCG.
Per accepting donations to cover the costs, we see those folks on the 6pm news.... Accepting any donations of any monetary value may be considered a charter. Best advice, dont try it.

OldDan1943 said:

I'd sooner let them drive my car.

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I hear ya and my car is a 2 week old Mercedes!

Donna said:

I hear ya and my car is a 2 week old Mercedes!

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A Mercedes and a sizable boat? You must be wealthy. LOL

There are a couple of marinas I know of in Maine which rent out boats. They never get underway. My guess is they're disabled so they can't. One has custom-made un-powered barges on moorings, and the barge rental comes with kayaks and small powered fishing boats. The other has regular houseboats and possibly converted cruising power boats at their docks. The first place rents through their own web site, the other I've seen on AirBnB.

I'm sure they've "dumbed down" all the on-board systems to reduce problems like clogged heads and dead batteries. They have commercial insurance for their business, and a full-time staff. For them, it seems to work fine. For the average boat owner, no way.

OldDan1943 said:

A Mercedes and a sizable boat? You must be wealthy. LOL

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Nah, I just manage my money well. As far as the car goes, it was time. I had a 10 year old BMW that I was dumping money into. It just made sense to move on. My boat engine is also a Mercedes although that’s diesel. Nice and quiet so I went for the car.

Seevee said:

The issue with a boat is that it's just no user friendly like a house. Too many "boat specific" things that need to be done. Operation of the head for starters, electrical, AC, and on and on.


So you need to educate the guess. Too much of a PITA.



One would be MUCH better to just charter the boat out with an experienced captain and do things right.



For and Ab&b I could argue to just have a house. You'll get pretty close to the same revenue, have WAY less issues and much easier.

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Ditto!

There was a 65’ or so Broward at the Key West Harbour Yacht Club Marina last winter that was rented every night we were there via AirBnB. As well as a Florida Bay Coaster and a large houseboat. They all seemed to use the same maid service and we never say any repairmen come to fix anything during the 2 months we were there.

Regarding the Coast Guard: how do they handle floating homes like those in Sausalito? Or what about all the floating fishing lodges in BC and Alaska? Are they expecting a Masters License or 6-pack rating to rent a room to a client or even a friend? If not, what is the difference if the boat has its propulsion disabled?

I stand corrected re the USCG stuff, however there are many ways to address the work around on this. There are bareboat charters and boat rentals, and even hotels with floating rooms built on barges. As Airbnb is renting boats there must be a way around any legal/liability issues.

A rental boat only needs to meet USCG requirements for any private vessel. A 6-pack vessel needs Type 1 life jackets and a few other things but the vessel itself is "uninspected."

Pau Hana said:

USCG regulations certainly do apply for OUPV or ANY charter operation. In the 6 pack world, the license holder must be in direct command of the vessel at all times per 46 USC.

Twistedtree is absolutely correct in that USCG parameters for passenger vessels apply whether the vessel is dockside or underway as soon as payment is taken. A San Diego maritime attorney tackled this question in the Log newspaper in San Diego Back in 2009:

https://www.thelog.com/ask-the-atto...ules-apply-to-a-boat-and-breakfast-operation/

Click to expand...

twistedtree said:

Quite a few of the old square riggers and other attraction boats (Bounty as a good example) are inspected and approved as dockside attractions only. In other words, they are not sufficiently seaworthy to carry passengers beyond what a 6-pack allows.


By implication, this means that as soon as a paying person sets foot on the boat, it's subject to passenger vessel regs. Even if you can get away with it otherwise, should there be an issue l(law suit) you can be sure this will come up, and work against you. So I would assume you need to meet all the charter requirements, just like if the boat were to leave the dock.


I think the Air B&B thing could work, but not as a casual dabble. You would have to figure in all the costs to make it a ligit operation, and rent enough time to make it all pay. I don't know how much rental time would be required, but I'd guess it would be significant, require marketing and promotion, etc. When something looks like free and easy money, you can be pretty sure it isn't. There is a reason we call it "work".

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So how do all the floating fish camps and lodges in Alaska get around the rules? Are barges or other unpowered floating homes not considered boats? After all there are a lot of sailboats with no auxiliary power, so what’s the difference? On the other hand, if you pull the props off of a 60’ powerboat why isn’t it now a barge?

Sounds like a charter to me.
If so you would need a CG licensed on board.
I wouldn't do it.

For that matter, what about the floating casino/hotel that’s down on the Gulf in La. or Alabama? Is it a boat too? Does the Queen Mary in Long Beach require a Master to be onboard at all times to rent out hotel rooms?

I’ve watched others go down this road in the past. There was a guy who was successful in the keys called the boat hotel. The boats we disabled and while current zoning didn’t permit a boat hotel, he was grandfathered in.

In Washington we have shore line regulation. Only required water dependent activities are allowed. Living on the water is not a requirement, there fore you can’t build a house over the water. Recreational boating is water dependent, there fore you may more your boat over the water, living on it is ok. Now we get into the touchy stuff. Floating homes are only allowed by grandfathered rights, the rights are attached to the moorage and not the floating home. Meaning you can replace the home but not the location. Next we get into the hotel. Not water dependent so you can’t market a boat as a hotel. Step back a second, charters are water dependent so if you have a captain and meet all the inspections, you can be a hotel cruise ship. However, if you don’t leave the dock with every charter then you become a hotel and are illegal again. This brings us to airb&b’s. They are commercial rooms, this puts them in the non water dependent status. Some one will claim it’s a recreational boat first and that makes them legal. The government will claim the commercial aspect requires CG certification. At this point there are no court cases to sort out the definition. So what does this mean, everyone is getting away with this until something bad happens, then the rules will get better defined. I don’t want to be the guy who is spending $100,000s of dollars on lawyers trying to keep me out of jail all over a few thousand dollars in revenue.

Barge vs boat. If you add an outboard to a barge and license it as a boat, you have a boat. Except we have this case in Florida called the “if it looks like a duck then it’s a duck” case. So do you have a boat or a barge? Well, we will have to go to court to find out. The Supreme Court came up with the definition of boat vs barge as, “it is what the majority thinks it to be”.

The Queen Mary does not sit on navigable water. There fore it does not come under the Coast Guard. It is landlocked and comes under the authority of the port of Longbeach.