Head / Shower / Bathroom - tips, tricks, upgrades?

What have you learned, seen or thought about that makes the best possible use of your on-board head and shower?

I learned (Thanks Peggy!) that the Raritain Marine Elegance head is one of if not the best there is and I just installed one. Today I'm installing a new external Solo tank monitor.*Tank Monitors | Technologies LLC

It doesn't sound like holding tank air vent filters help much.*

Noflex is said to help and I'm starting that this weekend after pumping out to calibrate the above level monitor.

Does anyone else get a disgusting 'burb' when you starting pumping out? I have to remember to open the valve on the pump out hose reaaaaaaaallllly slowly to avoid it.

We put a shower curtain over the helm access panel which is in the shower and it seems to work well. We also put a shower curtain over the entry to the shower to keep the rest of the head fairly dry.**

The cabinet in the shower isn't fairing very well with near daily use of the shower (our marina is known for dirty bathrooms

What do folks use for a 'panel' to hold new switches and displays that don't cover up the old holes of past displays etc? (I'm thinking a piece of bathroom art for one area and a thin piece of paneling sealed with epoxy and varnish for another.)

Shower and floor drains?*

Fans or vents?

Shower handheld head? Ours dribble a lot when you push the button to turn them off. Is there a brand that turns off entirely? We often use the handheld shower to rinse out the toilet bowl. Seems like it uses less water and gets the job done quickly. (Both of our heads can now be flushed without adding water.)

Best way to seal trim and joints so shower water doesn't soak into the wood under and around the head?

Hot water ideas? We have ours turned up so high it is bordering on dangerous. The plus is that it takes so little hot water to be comfortable in the shower that two of us can shower one after the other.*

So! What have people learned / discovered that makes full time use of their heads (bathroom but on top of your neck too I suppose) as comfortable, efficient and maintenance free as possible?

Thanks all!!

Andiamo2018 said:

What have you learned, seen or thought about that makes the best possible use of your on-board head and shower?

I learned (Thanks Peggy!) that the Raritain Marine Elegance head is one of if not the best there is and I just installed one. Today I'm installing a new external Solo tank monitor.*Tank Monitors | Technologies LLC

It doesn't sound like holding tank air vent filters help much.*

Noflex is said to help and I'm starting that this weekend after pumping out to calibrate the above level monitor.

Does anyone else get a disgusting 'burb' when you starting pumping out? I have to remember to open the valve on the pump out hose reaaaaaaaallllly slowly to avoid it.

We put a shower curtain over the helm access panel which is in the shower and it seems to work well. We also put a shower curtain over the entry to the shower to keep the rest of the head fairly dry.**

The cabinet in the shower isn't fairing very well with near daily use of the shower (our marina is known for dirty bathrooms

What do folks use for a 'panel' to hold new switches and displays that don't cover up the old holes of past displays etc? (I'm thinking a piece of bathroom art for one area and a thin piece of paneling sealed with epoxy and varnish for another.)

Shower and floor drains?*

Fans or vents?

Shower handheld head? Ours dribble a lot when you push the button to turn them off. Is there a brand that turns off entirely? We often use the handheld shower to rinse out the toilet bowl. Seems like it uses less water and gets the job done quickly. (Both of our heads can now be flushed without adding water.)

Best way to seal trim and joints so shower water doesn't soak into the wood under and around the head?

Hot water ideas? We have ours turned up so high it is bordering on dangerous. The plus is that it takes so little hot water to be comfortable in the shower that two of us can shower one after the other.*

So! What have people learned / discovered that makes full time use of their heads (bathroom but on top of your neck too I suppose) as comfortable, efficient and maintenance free as possible?

Thanks all!!

Click to expand...

Regarding a panel for new switches: Starboard is very easy to work with, comes in several colors and thicknesses 1/8" to 2" and is water /weather proof. Cut a panel large enough to cover the old switches and then mount the new ones in the Starboard.

Add a tempering valve (mixing valve or anti scalding valve) after the water heater. It controls output temperature by mixing cold water with the hot water. The valve is adjustable.

Regarding moisture deterioration in the bathroom, ventilation is critical, at least after showering. Bathroom doors need to be open when no one is using them so that they dry out from the air circulation. Many shower areas benefit from a fan venting the moist air out of the boat.

Ted

O C Diver said:

Many shower areas benefit from a fan venting the moist air out of the boat.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Definitely add a vent fan if at all possible. My boat was built with a bilge blower ducted to each head and a switch for it in the head.

As another systems design thing, if you can avoid a shower sump, do it. If the water can't just self-drain due to the shower being too low in the boat, put a diaphragm pump like a Whale Gulper in the discharge line with a switch. Running dry won't hurt them. It's louder while showering than a sump setup, but no sumps to clean or smell. And in 33 years since my boat was built that way, nobody in the family knows of a single clogging issue.

Andiamo2018 said:

It doesn't sound like holding tank air vent filters help much.*

Noflex is said to help and I'm starting that this weekend after pumping out to calibrate the above level monitor.

Does anyone else get a disgusting 'burb' when you starting pumping out? I have to remember to open the valve on the pump out hose reaaaaaaaallllly slowly to avoid it.

Click to expand...

We have a holding tank vent filter; gives some respite to our boat neighbors when we flush... so we don't knock them off their boat with our odor. Doesn't seem to make much difference to us on our boat, until after the 3rd or 4th year when it signals replacement might be in order.

Can't tell if NoFlex does anything or not. We use it, as directed, but we didn't have toilet odors onboard either before or after. We used to use KO for that purpose (NoFlex is easier to dose) and never noticed toilet odors either before or after with that, either.

Where's your "burb"? Outside the boat, perhaps at the vent fitting? Or inside the boat? Or...?

-Chris

Does anyone else get a disgusting 'burb' when you starting pumping out? I have to remember to open the valve on the pump out hose reaaaaaaaallllly slowly to avoid it.

That fits the description of a pressurized tank, which would be caused by a blocked tank vent. Opening the pumpout hose relieves the pressure, but doesn't provide the source of air needed to pump out or escape for air displaced by incoming waste when the toilet is flushed. If it seems like your tank is filling up a lot faster these days, it's because the blocked vent is causing the pump to pull a vacuum after removing only a few gallons.

90% of vent blockages occur in the vent thru-hull...use a screwdriver blade, ice pick--whatever works to clean it out. And then replace it with an open bulkhead or "mushroom" thru-hull that'll let you put a hose nozzle against it and backflush the vent line to prevent future blocked vents...which you wouldn't be able to do if there's a filter in the vent line 'cuz filters can't get wet, so the solution to that is: get rid of the filter.


--Peggie



__

Does anyone else get a disgusting 'burb' when you starting pumping out? I have to remember to open the valve on the pump out hose reaaaaaaaallllly slowly to avoid it.

Click to expand...

Can you describe the 'disgusting burb,' where it's happening, what it looks like, why it's disgusting? I'm not sure what a burb is in this context.

The "telephone" shower heads work well, with an extra bracket or two rinsing with two hands is fast,

But for the least water use the kitchen sink style of sprayer can be fitted with a long hose , that allows aiming the water really well.

Great suggestions!

Maybe a vent to the engine room from the showers? That would also vent in reverse I suppose if the blowers aren't turned on. I'll think about that but either way a vent makes sense.

The 'burp' - It is at the waste port and it happens when I first open the valve for the pump out hose. If I open it any way other than really really slowly it sort of burps or hiccups...and some stuff squirts out.

The vent is clear for sure. When I really flush out the tank (at least every third or fourth pump out) I'll let it fill and clear water comes out the air vent. I can also hear it sucking in while pumping out.

I have had to clean the shower sump only once in a year. It is a fairly large one that is built into the bilge. The advantage is if the boat really takes on water the sump becomes another de-watering pump. And if the sump overflows then the bilge pump would be next. Anyway, it is already there and works well, there just isn't much of a drop from one shower. A diaphragm pump there sounds like a good option.

Any other suggestions for making the head as nice as possible??

Oh yeah! The kitchen sink sprayer! I really like that idea! I installed a stand alone one in the galley and found there are a few versions that really work well and hold up. Some, even expensive ones, broke pretty fast.

Thanks!!

Andiamo2018 said:

What have you learned, seen or thought about that makes the best possible use of your on-board head and shower?

I learned (Thanks Peggy!) that the Raritain Marine Elegance head is one of if not the best there is and I just installed one. Today I'm installing a new external Solo tank monitor.*Tank Monitors | Technologies LLC

It doesn't sound like holding tank air vent filters help much.*

Noflex is said to help and I'm starting that this weekend after pumping out to calibrate the above level monitor.

Does anyone else get a disgusting 'burb' when you starting pumping out? I have to remember to open the valve on the pump out hose reaaaaaaaallllly slowly to avoid it.

We put a shower curtain over the helm access panel which is in the shower and it seems to work well. We also put a shower curtain over the entry to the shower to keep the rest of the head fairly dry.**

The cabinet in the shower isn't fairing very well with near daily use of the shower (our marina is known for dirty bathrooms

What do folks use for a 'panel' to hold new switches and displays that don't cover up the old holes of past displays etc? (I'm thinking a piece of bathroom art for one area and a thin piece of paneling sealed with epoxy and varnish for another.)

Shower and floor drains?*

Fans or vents?

Shower handheld head? Ours dribble a lot when you push the button to turn them off. Is there a brand that turns off entirely? We often use the handheld shower to rinse out the toilet bowl. Seems like it uses less water and gets the job done quickly. (Both of our heads can now be flushed without adding water.)

Best way to seal trim and joints so shower water doesn't soak into the wood under and around the head?

Hot water ideas? We have ours turned up so high it is bordering on dangerous. The plus is that it takes so little hot water to be comfortable in the shower that two of us can shower one after the other.*

So! What have people learned / discovered that makes full time use of their heads (bathroom but on top of your neck too I suppose) as comfortable, efficient and maintenance free as possible?

Thanks all!!

Click to expand...

As to a new switch panel, I second Starboard. It is easy to work with, standard woodworking tools will do.

I would not vent the head into the engine room. The moisture will promote rust. If possible vent it over the side. There are several vents that you can install in the deck that will vent overboard. I used to use Nicro Fico solar vents. I think maybe Marinco bought the company. The solar vents will run all day and most of the night before the batteries die. Then the next day they will recharge and run again. We put a 10X10” vent hatch in the head that we shower in. It lets light in and moisture out.

We put in a Skandvik hand held shower. The shutoff valve shuts off the water completely and the spray is much stronger than the old shower head, maybe better hole design?

If you have a filter in the holding tank vent, get rid of it. I am going to add a second vent to my holding tank this winter when I have the engine out so I can replace the fuel tank. I will be able to much more easily access the area. I am adding a 1” vent out the other side from the original vent. I am also adding a Groco Sweetank air system. We put one in another boat and we never had to add any chemicals again for the 8 years we owned the boat.

Good luck with your projects.

Oh, BTW I just got my new Marine Elegance head that will also go in over the winter. They are great!

Andiamo2018 said:

The 'burp' - It is at the waste port and it happens when I first open the valve for the pump out hose. If I open it any way other than really really slowly it sort of burps or hiccups...and some stuff squirts out.

The vent is clear for sure. When I really flush out the tank (at least every third or fourth pump out) I'll let it fill and clear water comes out the air vent. I can also hear it sucking in while pumping out.

Click to expand...

It shouldn't burp like that. Listen to Peggie.

I think flushing the tank enough to have water coming out the vent fitting means you have no vent filter or maybe you've completely saturated it... or something...

-Chris

On my boat, I installed a Jabsco QuietFlush that has worked great for about 8 years. If I was to do it again, I'd look at the Raritan as a replacement. Sounds like you're off to a good start with Raritan and the Solo Tank Monitor. No vent filters on my boat.

I switched to NoFlex about a year ago when TF's own Giggitoni gave me a bottle to try. I was very impressed and have remained with it since. It helps oxygenate the tank and really reduces the solids well. No more smells after a flush 1 week into usage. If I fall a little behind schedule with the NoFlex, I'll notice a very slight odor as a reminder to throw in another tablespoon. I'll continue to use it for the foreseeable future. Great stuff! (Thanks, Peggie and SeaQ...and Giggitoni!!)

I use a diaphragm pump on my shower drain (same model as my water pump for redundancy) but have no sump...the hose from the drain runs to the inline strainer to the pump to overboard. No smells and a dry shower. I use a squeegee to get most of the water off my shower stall walls to aid in drying.

One of my recent mods was a Caframo fan that I use in the head or elsewhere as needed onboard. I purchased a 2 inch round magnet at Harbor Freight, painted it white and attached it with 4200 to the base of the fan. I installed a 2 inch fender washer in the ceiling of my head near the port so the fan can be mounted to blow in or out as needed (depending on the relative wind). I also placed a couple washers elsewhere in the boat where a fan would be helpful. Each spot has a 12V outlet nearby so power is not an issue. The fan does a great job of venting the head or providing circulation around the boat as desired. On most days, the mirror in my head no longer fogs after a shower. I would not vent into the ER or allow shower water into the bilge to avoid other issues with smells and moisture buildup.

My shower hand wand also drips a bit when off and I think most are designed to do this...some drip more than others. I placed toggle valves on each of my water faucet spouts to allow me to conserve water when washing dishes, etc. Those valves also allow a small drip to indicate that the faucet is still on.

I took the tempering valve off my water heater since that valve lowered the temp of the water in the tank and I wanted the hot water to last longer. Of course, the result is the potential to get scalding water out of the tank. I like the idea of a temp mixing valve downstream of the tank to limit the temp at the outlets. Does anyone have any recommendations for a good model?

Those single handle facets are not supposed or designed to drip. Consider investigating replacing the faucet cartridges. Any dripping is wasting water.

I used Noflex for a while until I discovered much cheaper sodium percarbonate available in bulk on Amazon. It is the same basic ingredient in Noflex but you can buy a 2lb bag for $14. Use it the same dosing as NoFlex.

I also recommend a Scandvik hand shower. It shuts completely off when the lever is released.

If possible, move the hot water tank close to the primary shower to reduce long hose runs so less water is wasted waiting for the water to get hot. Insulating the hot hose will maintain temperature longer.

I have a circulation pump in the hot water line that I run before a shower. It allows the water from the water heater to the shower valve to be warmed prior to use.

I installed a Grohe GrohTherm 1000 Thermostatic Shower Valve in the shower. I set the temperature and it thermostaticallly controls output temperature accurately. There are other temperature compensated shower valves out there but most use pressure differential to control temp instead of a thermostat which doesn't work well with pulsating pumps. Other faucetts on the boat can be used while someone showers without temperature fluctuations.

And finally, replace the shower curtain with glass doors. Lot easier to keep clean, faster drying easier in and out.

BradC said:

I used Noflex for a while until I discovered much cheaper sodium percarbonate available in bulk on Amazon. It is the same basic ingredient in Noflex but you can buy a 2lb bag for $14. Use it the same dosing as NoFlex.

Click to expand...

I thought NoFlex had some sort of solids-digesting microbe or bacteria that thrived in the O2 rich environment. Now that I read the page closely, it appears that I am mistaken.

https://www.marinesan.com/Noflex-digestor-p/noflex.htm

https://www.marinesan.com/Tank-Teria-Tablets-10pk-p/tank-teria.htm

ranger42c said:

We have a holding tank vent filter; gives some respite to our boat neighbors when we flush... so we don't knock them off their boat with our odor. Doesn't seem to make much difference to us on our boat, until after the 3rd or 4th year when it signals replacement might be in order.



Can't tell if NoFlex does anything or not. We use it, as directed, but we didn't have toilet odors onboard either before or after. We used to use KO for that purpose (NoFlex is easier to dose) and never noticed toilet odors either before or after with that, either.



Where's your "burb"? Outside the boat, perhaps at the vent fitting? Or inside the boat? Or...?



-Chris

Click to expand...

If you have a vent filter on your boat, the KO didn’t do anything for you. It requires an adequate supply of O2 to be effective and yet with the vent filter you are guaranteed to not have enough O2.

Comodave said:

If you have a filter in the holding tank vent, get rid of it. I am going to add a second vent to my holding tank this winter when I have the engine out so I can replace the fuel tank. I will be able to much more easily access the area. I am adding a 1” vent out the other side from the original vent. I am also adding a Groco Sweetank air system. We put one in another boat and we never had to add any chemicals again for the 8 years we owned the boat.

Click to expand...

More venting is great. However, you may find that with the additional vent you may not need the Groco Sweetank. Likewise, if you did install the Groco Sweetank you likely wouldn’t need the extra vent.

FWIW, I rolled my own holding tank aerator using a 12v bait tank aerator and a bit of pvp piping. The whole project was about $50 or about 1/7th the cost of the Groco.

If you knew my wife and her aversion to smells, the belt and suspenders approach would make sense. Besides it is a relatively cheap thing to do both. And while one of my engines is out it will also be an easy fix.

The 'burp' - It is at the waste port and it happens when I first open the valve for the pump out hose. If I open it any way other than really really slowly it sort of burps or hiccups...and some stuff squirts out.


Something has to be pressurizing the tank...Opening the deck pumpout fittingcreates an escape for the pressure. I don't know what else besides a blocked vent could pressurize a tank, but it's not gonna quit "burping" and spitting up till you find out and fix it.


--Peggie

What a money saver on the Noflex! Thanks!

HeadMistress said:

The 'burp' - It is at the waste port and it happens when I first open the valve for the pump out hose. If I open it any way other than really really slowly it sort of burps or hiccups...and some stuff squirts out.


Something has to be pressurizing the tank...Opening the deck pumpout fittingcreates an escape for the pressure. I don't know what else besides a blocked vent could pressurize a tank, but it's not gonna quit "burping" and spitting up till you find out and fix it.


--Peggie

Click to expand...

The burp isn't when I open the deck waste, it's when I start the pump out. Right at the beginning if I open the valve on the pump out hose there is a burp. Maybe I should be opening that valve before I push onto the waste deck fitting?

Maybe it is a problem with the pumpout. Do you always use the same pumpout? Do other people have the same issue with that pumpout? If your vent is open then your tank should not be burping so maybe it isn’t your boat...

Sounds to me like the vent line is trapping. It must run continuously uphill, along its length, so that any moisture it receives (like said flushout or condensation) can drain back into the tank, with the possible exception of a hump at the thru hull to prevent outside water from running in.

dhays said:

If you have a vent filter on your boat, the KO didn’t do anything for you. It requires an adequate supply of O2 to be effective and yet with the vent filter you are guaranteed to not have enough O2.

Click to expand...

I know Peggie rails against vent filters, but our experience -- three separate boats -- is that the filters haven't ever caused any problems.

Not a recommendation to install one, and we only keep ours so we don't blast our dock neighbors every time we flush... but anyway, it's been a non-issue for us.

If OP is getting liquid "burp" out the vent fitting, sounds like either no vent filter, or one that's been saturated so isn't working... might even be the clog in the vent line that's causing the "burp."

Dunno if that can happen or not, though...

-Chris

Our vent is pretty small. There are two holes the size of nostrils. I remember now that when we pump out the old vented loops (removed now as all goes straight to the tank) used to whistle. I usually pump out alone so I didn't hear it but the admiral remembered.

Going slow though took care of things as far as the burb goes.

The new solo tank monitor works great! We calibrated it last night and checked it out. I'm wondering if the next time we pump out about putting a lot of the cheaper amazon digester in the tank and filling it up with clean water. The go for a run around the bay. Maybe that would get our old in-tank sensor working too.

I still have to figure out the shower. When I was under things I could see the wood is pretty wet - water running down the back wall of the shower where there is a cabinet.

I recently found a way to add a larger more direct vent. I also left my DIY 12V fish tank aerator operating. I dont see the value in the Groco system when you DIY for $50 or less.
Belt and suspenders good and no head odors in several yrs.

dhays said:

More venting is great. However, you may find that with the additional vent you may not need the Groco Sweetank. Likewise, if you did install the Groco Sweetank you likely wouldn’t need the extra vent.

FWIW, I rolled my own holding tank aerator using a 12v bait tank aerator and a bit of pvp piping. The whole project was about $50 or about 1/7th the cost of the Groco.

Click to expand...

As liveaboards who regularly shower on the boat, we have a 12V engine room blower that is Y'd to the head. The vent in the head (which is up high near the overhead) can be open or closed. We leave it open to evacuate steam from showers, and close if underway and employing the blower for the engine room. We rarely need to use the blower for the engine room, as keeping the port lights open on each side of the ER keeps it from getting too hot in the PNW.

However, beyond just using a vent fan for the shower, we also use a dehumidifier. On average, it runs about 8 hours a day during the winter when the boat is continuously closed up in an effort to keep the heat in.

FlyWright said:

I thought NoFlex had some sort of solids-digesting microbe or bacteria that thrived in the O2 rich environment. Now that I read the page closely, it appears that I am mistaken.

https://www.marinesan.com/Noflex-digestor-p/noflex.htm

https://www.marinesan.com/Tank-Teria-Tablets-10pk-p/tank-teria.htm

Click to expand...

Here is the MSDS sheet with the ingredients. The Sodium Percarbonate I use is a very similar chemical to the disodium carbonate which makes up 80% of NoFlex.
http://algoma.msdsworld.com/msds/English/34525.pdf

It sounds like it mostly just make oxygen which lets the bugs already there do their thing. I'm going to try it out for sure.