Battery monitors ?

On our sloop we had a Victron BMV-602S battery monitor. Since we lived on solar power almost exclusively (no shore power cord for 5+ years) battery monitoring was pretty important.

Now that we have graduated to a trawler with an 8kW generator, charging seems much less important, but I'd still like to know where we are regarding the housebank.

My first inclination is to just get another Victron but I'd rather hear from others first.

Thanks,



-Sven

I just installed this remote monitoring system "BRNKL'
includes battery voltage and more.

Soo-Valley said:

I just installed this remote monitoring system "BRNKL'
includes battery voltage and more.

Click to expand...

But it doesn't keep track of Ah going in and out, correct ?

Can you use it onboard without cell or WiFi connectivity ?

Thanks,



-Sven

correct

If you're already used to Victron, don't want to relearn and have $200 to spend, it makes sense. I have a Xantrex LinkPro but it's basically the same thing. Prices are similar, IIRC.

If you want a good look at battery health, I'm a big fan of the Balmar SG-200. It's got state of health as well as state of charge. It's a big leap forward but without current in/out, it's less-than-totally-useful to me. I'm waiting for a single combo unit that displays all 3.

In the meantime, I'll enjoy my Xantrex SOC meter.

If I had endless funds and panel real estate, I'd have both.

FlyWright said:

...If you want a good look at battery health, I'm a big fan of the Balmar SG-200. It's got state of health as well as state of charge. It's a big leap forward but without current in/out, it's less-than-totally-useful to me. I'm waiting for a single combo unit that displays all 3.

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That actually looks perfect. When you say no current in/out are you talking about something different than "Charge/Discharge Current (A)" per their specs ?

The fact that you could add a shunt and network cable to add a monitor for the generator battery and the starter battery seems amazing, for a price of course.

I think you just made a decision for us



-Sven

Battery monitors are essential, particularly if one does not have an engine dedicated solely to power the generator.

I installed the Balmar about a month earlier then this was taken.... If you don't have a few large discharge cycles it takes a long time for the SG200 for it's algorithms to get it right....

I have a Victron and have been very happy with it.

Ted

O C Diver said:

I have a Victron and have been very happy with it.

Ted

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Same here.

CMS a TF member has a good write up of the Balmar unit. See
https://marinehowto.com/balmar-sg200-self-learning-battery-monitor/
I'm close to a decision on doing the same.

Trawler_traveler said:

That actually looks perfect. When you say no current in/out are you talking about something different than "Charge/Discharge Current (A)" per their specs ?

The fact that you could add a shunt and network cable to add a monitor for the generator battery and the starter battery seems amazing, for a price of course.

I think you just made a decision for us



-Sven

Click to expand...

If your're used to the Victron, it is a perfectly fine unit.

Ka Sea Ta, I see a Magnum remote in your picture. Their Battery Monitor Kit is excellent and very accurate for all measurements mentioned in this thread, including SOC. Curious as to why you went with SG200. ??

Trawler_traveler said:

My first inclination is to just get another Victron but I'd rather hear from others first.

Click to expand...

I've been in your shoes with respect to wanting a really accurate monitor for my battery banks. You name it, I've had it and was never satisfied with the info. Victron, Balmar, Blue sea. etc. seemed fine if you knew how to calibrate them, which you have to do frequently if you want accurate data.

https://www.maretron.com/products/dsm410.php

https://www.maretron.com/products/dcm100.php

The first photo shows the DSM 150 and some of its info on the MFD. (All of its info can be viewed on the DSM 150)

The second photo shows SOC info but detailed info can be viewed on the DSM150.

The bottom photo shows the old system.

I finally bit the bullet and bought a Maretron DSM 150 (Now it's a DSM 410) and a DCM 100. Some of the data generated is viewable on my Raymarine eS128 but all the data can be viewed by scrolling on the DSM 150. Although the two components are expensive, by starting with the DSM 410 (DSM150 is no longer available) you can add a multitude of other instrument data and the DSM 410 will handle them all. No more screen or dashboard space needed. Plus, you don't have to add them all at once, add to your system as the years and the wallet allow!

Bacchus said:

CMS a TF member has a good write up of the Balmar unit. See
https://marinehowto.com/balmar-sg200-self-learning-battery-monitor/
I'm close to a decision on doing the same.

Click to expand...

I agree. I am seriously considering installing this and removing my Xantrex monitor.

dhays said:

I agree. I am seriously considering installing this and removing my Xantrex monitor.

Click to expand...

Dave, is your Xantrex a LinkPro with real time +/-Amp flowmeter? If so, you might like having both units installed to retain that feature that's not on the SG200 (last time I checked...).

Bacchus said:

CMS a TF member has a good write up of the Balmar unit. See
https://marinehowto.com/balmar-sg200-self-learning-battery-monitor/

Click to expand...

I took a look and thought "that looks like a site as good as the one Maninesail runs". Then I went to his site https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/ and it is the same site, but the one I knew of is the older version. Great stuff.

Thanks.

What am I missing about the Victron. It does show amps out since last full charge. What else do I need to know? Yes, I know that any house starts out at a nominal capacity which declines from new so knowing exactly where 50% discharge is almost unknowable. But, I don't care about precision. I simply subtract 5% capacity for each year of use and go from there. Close enough for me. So, maybe I'm off a little and my house bank lasts six years instead of seven. That's a big "so what" to me.

The SG200 shows a State of Health (SOH) that indicates the real world state of your battery's charge holding capacity. Other monitors do not include this proprietary analysis.

The SG200 does not include the "flow meter' equivalent of instantaneous amps in/out like the Victron and Xantrex LinkPro. It shows the "battery level" SOC in % like the others do.

I appreciate the real-time amp flow indication to show the real time level of charge or discharge amperage flow. It helps to ID and troubleshoot charging and discharging anomalies.

Trawler_traveler said:

I took a look and thought "that looks like a site as good as the one Maninesail runs". Then I went to his site https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/ and it is the same site, but the one I knew of is the older version. Great stuff.



Thanks.

Click to expand...

Yeah, imagine my shock after a couple years here on TF when I finally realized that CMS was Mainesail. He is as helpful here as he has been for years on sailing forums.

I am a huge fan of the Xantrex Link Pro

*Amp Hours
*Ammeter
*Voltmeter
*SOC meter which is based on amp hours out and your programmed battery bank size
*Self calibrating every time I reach full charge.

No it does not calculate the health of my batteries but that is not so hard if I know my amp hours out and can compare that to my bank voltage.

Is there a function I’m missing???

FlyWright said:

Dave, is your Xantrex a LinkPro with real time +/-Amp flowmeter? If so, you might like having both units installed to retain that feature that's not on the SG200 (last time I checked...).

Click to expand...

I have the LinkLITE. It displays voltage, charge/discharge amps, amp counter, and % SOC.

The Balmar SG200 displays SOH, SOC, charge/discharge amps, and time remaining.

The most useful measures for me are SOC and charge/discharge. The Balmar, over time, should give a much better estimate of SOC than my Xantrex. The Xantrex counts amps really well, but actually knowing what max capacity is of the bank is essentially a guess. In my case, not a very well educated guess at that.

I have other voltage meters which give current voltage of the battery bank so I wouldn’t miss that.

The Balmar Smartgauge doesn’t have an amp flow function so I wouldn’t swap my Xantrex for it.

The Victron BEV 712 does everything that other SOC monitors can.

It has a built in Bluethooth that allows you to see all the information on a phone or tablet.

You need to download the manual to see the list of available functions.

dhays said:

... The Balmar SG200 displays SOH, SOC, charge/discharge amps, and time remaining.
...
The Balmar Smartgauge doesn’t have an amp flow function so I wouldn’t swap my Xantrex for it.

Click to expand...

Isn't the 'charge/discharge amps' the same as an 'amp flow function' ? IOW, it shows you real time amp draw or charge rate ?



-Sven

Trawler_traveler said:

Isn't the 'charge/discharge amps' the same as an 'amp flow function' ? IOW, it shows you real time amp draw or charge rate ?

Click to expand...

Yup. Which is why I would be OK getting rid of the Xantrex in favor of the Balmar SG200. When I was looking at the Balmar Smartgauge, I wouldn’t have gotten rid of the Xantrex because the Smartgauge have the charge/discharge function. You need a shunt for that and the Smartgauge doesn’t use one. The SG200 does use a shunt.

caltexflanc said:

Ka Sea Ta, I see a Magnum remote in your picture. Their Battery Monitor Kit is excellent and very accurate for all measurements mentioned in this thread, including SOC. Curious as to why you went with SG200. ??

Click to expand...

I re-configured the entire battery system, replacing existing 8ds with 4cts added solar and plan to increase the solar portion this year. With tax credits available for alternative energy, which includes energy storage (batteries and associated equipment) it just seemed like it was a good idea to spend the money this year.


SOH and SOC is all information I find useful, that can only be estimated on the magnum remote....There is also parasitic draw from the inverter that isn't accounted for with Magnum remote.

I stand corrected. I was conflating the older Balmar Smartgage lack of current flow with the new SG-200.

The SG-200 DOES have current flow in/out (+/-).



SG200 Battery Monitor | Balmar

Sorry for the confusion.

Victron 702 for us.

FlyWright said:

I stand corrected. I was conflating the older Balmar Smartgage lack of current flow with the new SG-200.
...
Sorry for the confusion.

Click to expand...

And I thought the SG in SG-200 stood for Smartgage so they were one and the same

Lots of useful info from all.


-Sven

Ka_sea_ta said:

I re-configured the entire battery system, replacing existing 8ds with 4cts added solar and plan to increase the solar portion this year. With tax credits available for alternative energy, which includes energy storage (batteries and associated equipment) it just seemed like it was a good idea to spend the money this year.


SOH and SOC is all information I find useful, that can only be estimated on the magnum remote....There is also parasitic draw from the inverter that isn't accounted for with Magnum remote.

Click to expand...

I disagree, the Magnum BMK has a sophisticated way of measuring SOC. As my bank aged, it recalibrated. It takes all outflow into account, and it is not a simple amps-in amps-out algorithm by the way. Whenever I used other methods to double check it, like a good old hydrometer or a measured time draw down, it was always spot on.

We used the hell out out of our inverter bank as we spent months at a time living on a mooring or on the hook, so all this was very important to me. It was also nice to know where we were in the charge cycle and the attendant amp draw. Another nice feature (with additional expenditure to be sure) is that we had the option in the right circumstances, to have the generator turn on automatically at prescribed state of charge. And if you liked turned off likewise.

Anyway, I know the unit you decided on is a good piece of kit, but personally I never saw a reason to install it in our system.

RC is always knowledgable and helpful.
I've donated and purchased stuff from him as a token appreciation for his willingness to help educate others.

dhays said:

Yeah, imagine my shock after a couple years here on TF when I finally realized that CMS was Mainesail. He is as helpful here as he has been for years on sailing forums.

Click to expand...