Get home kicker

dhays said:

I know on my boat, it doesn’t take much power at all to push me along at 5 knots with a bit over a 38’ LWL. A typical 9.9 hp would be able to do that, but for how long on a typical sized OB gas tank?
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All wonderful in theory.
Add in the slightest bit of chop let alone actual waves, a bit of wind, some current.

MurrayM said:

My concern would be near shore such as rounding a point in rough conditions or even in the middle of a 2 mile wide channel with a brisk onshore wind, the engine quits, and there's not enough time to figure things out and fix it...and there's nobody close enough to help in time.

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But there's enough time to figure out how to get that toy outboard working in a seaway?

We had a high thrust 9.9 on a previous 33ft cat weighing 1.2 tonne in cruise mode.
It barely held ground pushing against 30knots and a few meters of sea.

Doubt it'd do anything on a boat with actual windage and weight.

The OP's desire for a 20hp motor should come close to successfully moving and handling the vessel in a moderate seaway. The big if seems for what distance thus how much fuel to carry.

Thus, get the main engine in the best repair state possible. The list of check and replace items is long and potentially time consuming on a new to him vessel. But hopefully just normal PMs will suffice.

rsn48 said:

Waters on the east coast on average are more benign with more boaters per area than Alaska and many parts of coastal BC and Vancouver Island, particularly the West coast.

For me, if I were to use the kicker to move my boat, it would be at the side where you are suppose to use it with a dinghy. A number of publications endorse this method including Chapman's.

For me and many here in BC and Alaska, the purpose of the swim grid is to carry a dinghy. So in my case, no kicker on the swim grid.

I did seriously look at propane and in fact went to purchase a Lehr but drove away without one. When talking to my good friend, a retired BC Ferries Captain, I asked him his thoughts on propane and electric. His main concern was range. If you are in an isolated area with the main engine conked out how much range do you have with propane and electric.

I find it easier to bring one or two five gallons of gas as part of my paranoia of running out of fuel. With propane, you get less than you think. By law a propane tank can only be filled to 80% so a 20 pound propane tank is really 16 pounds. I have brought along an extra normal 20 pounder only to have the very bottom rust in about ten minutes (okay I exaggerate but not by much). So if I were using a propane tank it would be fiberglass and the tank closest to 20 pounds is 17 and 80 % of 17 is 13.6 far to little fuel to make me feel safe in some of the more desolate locations in BC and Alaska. And filling the propane tank can be a pain in the butt in many marina locations.

https://ca.binnacle.com/p9907/Trident-Composite-Propane-Tank-17-lb./product_info.html

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Your not going to be towing mother ship with dinghy alongside in anything other than benign waters, so following your logic of west coast conditions, probably not a real option?

Simi 60 said:

But there's enough time to figure out how to get that toy outboard working in a seaway?

We had a high thrust 9.9 on a previous 33ft cat weighing 1.2 tonne in cruise mode.
It barely held ground pushing against 30knots and a few meters of sea.

Doubt it'd do anything on a boat with actual windage and weight.

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Sigh...

Sure, we can all cherry pick conditions where our boats will do poorly, even while using the main engine.

What option would you suggest then, knowing radio contact is impossible due to surrounding mountains, you haven't seen another boat for days, dropping the anchor won't help due to mountains plunging nearly vertically into the sea, and even if you fire off an SOS on your SPOT Messenger help is at least several hours away, even by helicopter?

Do you sit idly by while you, your family, and the boat which has faithfully served you for years goes aground or do you fire up the kicker (or dinghy) and try extricating yourself by the most plausible decision path considering the circumstances?

As for a strong head wind...an option might be to use a 'ferry glide' to move sideways.

Simi 60 wrote;
“But there's enough time to figure out how to get that toy outboard working in a seaway?”

What is it that you wish to accomplish calling somebodies OB a “toy”?

I see you like big. Many here like and prefer small. But I don’t consider anybodies equipment here on TF a toy.
Drones ? TV ? Could be so there may be a toy here and there. But when your engine quits the get home whatever is anything but a toy.

Simi 60 said:

All wonderful in theory.

Add in the slightest bit of chop let alone actual waves, a bit of wind, some current.

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Yup. Murray certainly gets chop, wind, and current. However, the outboard would be very quick and easy to fire up and potentially give enough help to allow you to set an anchor, safely negotiate the downstream current etc... to get to a safer spot to then figure out why the main engine quit.

MurrayM said:

Sigh...

Sure, we can all cherry pick conditions where our boats will do poorly, even while using the main engine.

,

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They were the conditions you picked

. Originally Posted by MurrayM
My concern would be near shore such as rounding a point in rough conditions or even in the middle of a 2 mile wide channel with a brisk onshore wind, the engine quits,

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. What option would you suggest then

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I'd certainly try anything, I just wouldn't hold my breath thinking a small low thrust outboard on a plunging transom pushing a heavy boat in rough conditions is the answer.
Id be more inclined to make sure the main gear was not going to let me down in the first place.

Simi 60 said:

They were the conditions you picked.

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Nope...you suggested 30 knots.

Simi 60 said:

I'd certainly try anything, I just wouldn't hold my breath thinking a small low thrust outboard on a plunging transom pushing a heavy boat in rough conditions is the answer.

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What then? Oars?

Simi 60 said:

Id be more inclined to make sure the main gear was not going to let me down in the first place.

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Well, Duh...

Nomad Willy said:

What is it that you wish to accomplish calling somebodies OB a “toy”?

.

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No need to get upset.
Merely stating the fact that any small strap on outboard is essentially a "toy" in comparison to the primary diesel engine.
Different story if you are talking high thrust Yamaha 50 or 60 that are made with a heavy load in mind.

https://yamahaoutboards.com/en-us/home/outboards/jet-drive-high-thrust/high-thrust

MurrayM said:

Nope...you suggested 30 knots.


..

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So you are going around a headland in rough conditions but no wind.
OK then.
Sorry for the misunderstanding

Simi 60 said:

So you are going around a headland in rough conditions but no wind.
OK then.
Sorry for the misunderstanding

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You should try Devastation Channel in a moderate north wind.

Wind comes from two directions due to mountain and channel shape, then bounces off an island cliff becoming four wave sets, which bounce off another cliff. Seas stack up until they can't hold together any more, then the tops explode in spray. There are other examples in the Douglas Channel system, but why bother...

Pto

We recently purchased a 1980 albin 36
And it has a PTO off the generator with hydrolic lines to the prop shaft just aft the tranny. Connects to the shaft via belts.
We have yet to explore it but seem like a reasonable idea.

I have a similar setup as Murray, matter of fact, Murray gave me the dimentions and I had one built. I used a 9.9 HighThrust Yamaha. Our boat is 28 feet Water line. and weighs in aroung 12-13000 #. By GPS this set up will push our boat at 3/4 throttle, 4.5 knots in calm condition. The motor was a long shaft (Now I have a 8 hp Honda replacing the Yamaha) The Honda is also a long shaft. I have used the set up in 20knot SE wind which means a hell of a chop. I am able to run into head winds and yes, at about 3.5 knots yet, I can use the main steering of the trawler as well, the auto pilot will react to the OB power as it should, so while on Auto, one can deal with addressing the ills of the main, given parts and correct tools.
I recently posted a incident where our oil cooler failed making us deal with bailing oil out of a container under the hot engine and adding makeup oil, After a couple of stops to accomplish this, we became smarter, dropped the inflatable off the swin step, swung out the 8 hp Honda, fired it up and when we stopped the main to address the oil loss issue, the Honda fired up and continued a homeward bound trip.
As to fuel. the Honda has a 6 gallon tank, at 3/4 throttle, we can move along at 3.5-4 knots at a gallon per hour estimate, so mybe 20 NM, However, we have a Honda Gen set and the spare gas for it is 2.5 gallon jug and we carry a spare 5 gallons up under the flybridge storage. so we could make a conservative 40 plus miles need by.

Like Murray, implys or so I interpert, were those of you scoffing at the idea of a "Git-a-home" OB for what ever reason or setting up strawmen objects to overcome in theory,
I'd say that given the opportunity, I would be the first to offer you a tow. even if you are 60 feet in length and I am a mere 28, I'd put my 85 hp main to the task with the same energy as I would my 8 hp Honda in a like situation on my own.

Cheers,
Al-Ketchikan ( I wear both belt and suspenders- One is a 'Git-a-Home' for the other.)

Hi, Al

Good to know your kicker worked as planned

Delfini said:

We recently purchased a 1980 albin 36
And it has a PTO off the generator with hydrolic lines to the prop shaft just aft the tranny. Connects to the shaft via belts.
We have yet to explore it but seem like a reasonable idea.

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It does.
On the plus side, it solves several issues, it uses existing power generation,has no exposed outboard, no need to carry the alternative to diesel fuel.

On the minus side,by using the existing shaft it would not help in the event of shaft or prop disablement.
Maybe there is no perfect solution, other than a wing engine with shaft and prop, like Marty`s KK42 had.

AKtrawler said:

We just purchased a 34’ mainship in Sitka AK and we plan on bringing her home up to Homer AK in the spring. She has a single Perkins that runs great and is very similar to a Perkins we had in a 40’ trawler 8 years ago. I’m wanting to put a get home/ trolling kicker on her for the ride home. Any input on hp , make, steering integration. I’m looking into a 25hp Yamaha high thrust and trying to get it with fly by wiring with a panther remote steering system. Any thoughts?

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Did you ever end up doing this? I just got my mainship 34 as well and was thinking the same thing when I get to remote spots in the Bahamas next year.... I was thinking of removing part of the swim platform and mounting a brack in its place.

Thesaltyrudder said:

Did you ever end up doing this? I just got my mainship 34 as well and was thinking the same thing when I get to remote spots in the Bahamas next year.... I was thinking of removing part of the swim platform and mounting a brack in its place.

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How would you plan on fueling, deploying (your main engine is out, you are laying beam to the seas) and steering it? Have you calculated how much outboard horsepower you'd need to move the boat safely in a seaway? I think you'll find there is a reason you don't see this done on larger boats.

No this is why I asked, but those thoughts have come up and this is what I have thoughts on, fueling from an external fuel tank from West Marine, I'd have a 10hp long shaft outboard and from what I have heard and read dinghys can push this size boat a few knots just tied off. As for deploying I would have already had a transom bracket installed such as a panther bracket. As for steering I have a rudder which should have some effective use once water is flowing over the surface.... The idea for this is to deploy and use to get into somewhere to anchor and wait for a tow even with minimal headway and avoid obstacles in a pinch. Not trying to tackle real open water.

Thoughts?