Broker tactic?

Back on Aug. 19th I found a boat on yachtworld that ticked a lot of boxes for me. I contacted the broker and asked to take a look at it. He replied back on the 20th that they had recently received an offer, but would let me know if it didn't work out. Then on 9/5 I get a email saying that the sale didn't pan out and survey is available at 1/2 price. Am I still interested? I replied a few hours later and said yes I'm still interested, can we schedule a walk-through? 6 hours later I get a email saying sorry, we already got another offer. Maybe I'm overly suspicious in my old age, but it kinda seems odd. Anybody else ever experience this? Is it a tactic to get a offer sight unseen?


thanks!


-Steve

Wonder how many copies he sold at 1/2 price. I tend to tilt to the cynic side. I would expect a professional to call me. It's all about trust and relationships.

whirrr said:

Back on Aug. 19th I found a boat on yachtworld that ticked a lot of boxes for me. I contacted the broker and asked to take a look at it. He replied back on the 20th that they had recently received an offer, but would let me know if it didn't work out. Then on 9/5 I get a email saying that the sale didn't pan out and survey is available at 1/2 price. Am I still interested? I replied a few hours later and said yes I'm still interested, can we schedule a walk-through? 6 hours later I get a email saying sorry, we already got another offer. Maybe I'm overly suspicious in my old age, but it kinda seems odd. Anybody else ever experience this? Is it a tactic to get a offer sight unseen?


thanks!


-Steve

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Hi Steve,

I’ve made an offer on a boat that I’d never seen. I made the offer, had it accepted subject to inspection, sea trial and survey. I don’t think it is all that unusual.

Depends on market, desirability of the boat, and asking price. Just because you say you're coming to see it, doesn't mean they stop trying to sell it to someone else.

Ted

Seems an unusual series of fast moving events. But maybe the new offer came from the old buyer,that would make sense.

Keep in contact with the broker, my friend looked at a nice sport fisherman, the boat was bought by someone else, 6 months later that man died and his widow sold it to my buddy via. broker and he got it for about 30% less then the original purchase price.

dhays said:

I’ve made an offer on a boat that I’d never seen. I made the offer, had it accepted subject to inspection, sea trial and survey. I don’t think it is all that unusual.

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Think it was about Feb 1989 I got a call from my RE agent in Oriental NC that my perfect retirement waterfront lot had become available. I was teaching in California at the time, so she sent me photos & I made a purchase deal contingent on inspection during my Easter break. My skipper & I flew back to NC in April, liked the property, signed the deal & closed quickly. It was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure there was a clause that if another buyer had come along in the meantime, I'd have had so many days to get my derriere back East to close quicker or lose the deal. That would have fairly protected the seller. BTW, never did build on that lot because by the time we were ready to consider building, the value had increased so much we were able to sell for so much that it was almost enough to buy another waterfront lot with a house already on it. I still own that house all these years later, but don't live there anymore.

I don't think this is all that suspicious. Obviously the broker kept the contact info of everyone who expressed interest and when the first deal fell through, contacted everyone on his list to let them know the boat was available again.

Someone was obviously biting at the bit because they though they missed it the first time so they struck. Maybe they looked at it before or maybe it was sight unseen - but it doesn't seem like a valid "tactic".

Although, I would ask for a refund of what I paid for the survey since they pulled the rug from under you.

The issue that jumps out to me is that the BROKER is offering to sell a survey at half price that was most likely paid for by the perspective BUYER who decided not to purchase the boat . . . Since when does a BROKER own the rights to make $$ off a survey paid for by the perspective BUYER?

slowgoesit said:

The issue that jumps out to me is that the BROKER is offering to sell a survey at half price that was most likely paid for by the perspective BUYER who decided not to purchase the boat . . . Since when does a BROKER own the rights to make $$ off a survey paid for by the perspective BUYER?

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Perhaps the broker is acting as broker on the survey? I had a deal go sour after the survey and the broker offered to broker the survey for me at 1/2 price. I declined his offer and asked for the contact info for persons interested in the survey.

I've sold and listed a lot of "stuff" on C.L, E-Bay, etc. I NEVER change my plans or stay around waiting because someone has said they were coming to look at it. I usually list something for when I know I will be around but never hold my breath. This broker could have been "stiffed" a number of times and was just being cautious.

If, as a buyer, I am interested in something I make firm plans to look at it and have cash in hand. It might not be available when and if I have to go get cash.

Money talks, B.S. walks!!

As for the survey.. I would buy my own. The survey for sale at half price may very well have been a "sellers survey" or an "insurance survey" , both very different from a buyers survey.

pete

The way to secure the boat for yourself is with a contract. They are always subject to inspection, survey, etc., so you have no obligation at the onset. For all intents and purposes, the contract initially is nothing other than a reserved right to purchase the boat, i.e. it blocks someone else from stepping in in front of you. If you want to see and evaluate the boat before making an offer, then you risk someone else stepping in and getting a contract ahead of you.


All in all I think it's pretty fair. A seller isn't going to stop accepting offers just because you said you are interested or that you are coming to see the boat. In my experience selling boats, there are a lot more lookers and talker than there are buyers. I'll take you seriously when you present an offer and contract. Before that you are just another looker and talker.

Pete Meisinger said:

As for the survey.. I would buy my own. The survey for sale at half price may very well have been a "sellers survey" or an "insurance survey" , both very different from a buyers survey.

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Easy to find out who the surveyor was and who paid for the survey. If it was a qualified surveyor and paid for by the prior prospective buyer, then I would be happy to buy it at 1/2 price.

Just had a similar situation happen with a house. We contacted the broker, saw the house and then went to breakfast to chat. We called back within an hr and the broker informed us the house was under contract. Wife was quite frustrated. Have asked to be notified if sale falls through. Stinks but it is part of the process.

Bottom line there will always be another house/boat just gotta keep looking.

People back out of purchase offers all the time. The broker could have easily fired out a generic notice to anyone who previously expressed interest. Someone could have signed and submitted a P&S in the time it took you to respond.

I'd pass on any survey offered by the broker or seller. The survey is typically purchased by the buyer.

I would tell the broker you will purchase the survey , IF you purchase the boat , and do not need a second fresher survey

FF said:

I would tell the broker you will purchase the survey , IF you purchase the boat , and do not need a second fresher survey

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Doesn't always work that way. Recently while looking at a MT40 that had a 32 day old survey, I approached Markel American Insurance to get a quote on insurance pending potential purchase. Representative stated that the previous survey was not acceptable because it was not in my name . . . Not sure what the name on the header page has to do with anything as long as the boat is the same boat.

Whenever things seemed to be pushed quickly, it’s a sign for me to back off..There can be exceptions, but in general pressure = bullshit..

Genecop said:

Whenever things seemed to be pushed quickly, it’s a sign for me to back off..There can be exceptions, but in general pressure = bullshit..

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Yep, "Hurry! This boat won't last long at this price!" . . . . a short search reveals that boat has been for sale for 9 months at that price . . . . Of course, they may be speaking in geological terms, as in thousands of years . . . .

Unless the boat was a long distance away, when the broker said they had a second offer, I would have still gone to look at the boat. Then if you wanted to make an offer, make the offer and see if your offer would win out in the end. Forget the other survey and do your own if you go under contract.

slowgoesit said:

Doesn't always work that way. Recently while looking at a MT40 that had a 32 day old survey, I approached Markel American Insurance to get a quote on insurance pending potential purchase. Representative stated that the previous survey was not acceptable because it was not in my name . . . Not sure what the name on the header page has to do with anything as long as the boat is the same boat.

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That may have to do with liability.
The surveyor may not have liability for the work he or she did for some one else.

The insurance company is relying on the information in the survey to asses risk. If there is a claim is filed there may be some liability based the survey. Except the surveyor can say he or she was never engaged by the parties involved with the insurance claim.

Especially if an insurance claim involves a lawyer. A lawyer would get the survey tossed and then the condition of the vessel is unknown.

FF said:

I would tell the broker you will purchase the survey , IF you purchase the boat , and do not need a second fresher survey

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There is no "privity of contract" between you and the surveyor. It`s a useful piece of information but if it is wrong you can`t come back against the surveyor. Though many so heavily qualify their opinions you probably have difficulty anyway.

I think I would contact the surveyor and off er him 10-20% of the survey cost to reissue his survey in my name????
Should be legit if he is doing it for you. Just doesn't have to repeat all the work?

slowgoesit said:

Doesn't always work that way. Recently while looking at a MT40 that had a 32 day old survey, I approached Markel American Insurance to get a quote on insurance pending potential purchase. Representative stated that the previous survey was not acceptable because it was not in my name . . . Not sure what the name on the header page has to do with anything as long as the boat is the same boat.

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Bacchus said:

I think I would contact the surveyor and off er him 10-20% of the survey cost to reissue his survey in my name????
Should be legit if he is doing it for you. Just doesn't have to repeat all the work?

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I think you'll find that any surveyor worth anything won't do that. He will want to do a survey all over again. For full price. That's just the way it is. YMMV

too cautious to be the early worm

I shoulda jumped on it. I told the broker that had I known there was a line of buyers I might have acted differently. A '78 CHB with a completely rebuilt Lehman (150 hrs) with fresh engine bed, brand new 150gl aluminum fuel tanks (looks like they were assembled in place), teak decks removed and non-skid glass deck, new windows, engine room and bilges looked immaculate and very tidy wiring. Unless it reeked of diesel AND had a rotten house, I would have offered the asking price. Maybe Tom Petty was right.. the waiting is the hardest part.

ALL the information of the boats condition should have been known to the boats broker and included in the initial listing.

FF said:

ALL the information of the boats condition should have been known to the boats broker and included in the initial listing.

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In my experience it has been the opposite. Sellers will withhold information, brokers won't really inspect a boat but will take the seller's word for condition. Or in my worst case, the broker lied about the known condition and history of the boat. Couldn't even keep his story straight when I tried to pin him down as I walked from the deal post survey.

Genecop said:

Whenever things seemed to be pushed quickly, it’s a sign for me to back off..There can be exceptions, but in general pressure = bullshit..

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Agreed. I declined to respond to that pressure on several boats. I even heard from one broker "There's a full price offer waiting behind you!" Nonsense. All of the boats were still for sale months or more than a year later.

I find nothing suspicious about the broker's activity. He notified you he had an offer, didn't claim a potential offer so you better hurry. He stopped you from spending more time or making an offer he couldn't accept. Things changed, he notified you again.

The second time may have been the first guy changed his mind and made another or could have been someone else. Boats do sit for months and then suddenly two or three serious parties all at once. Problem would have been had he let you fly in and then told you, "Oh it's already sold."