California recreational (fishing boat) overturns - 4 (all onboard) drown.

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2012/mar/11/coast-guard-searches-for-over-due-boat-near/

I cant imagine how their families deal with this tragic accident.

Many speculations as to how it happened, anything from a whale to a rogue wave to a tug etc etc.

Friends of friends so please post with respect.

Perhaps something can be learned from this.

RIP friends.

It is a shame.

You wouldn't see me going out to the open sea in*such a*small, open boat.* It isn't much larger than*many dinghys.* Particularly without wearing a personal flotation device.


-- Edited by markpierce on Thursday 15th of March 2012 04:03:43 PM

Always sad to hear these stories, especially for those of us who get so much enjoyment from being out on the water.*

My heart goes out to their families.

It appears that the skipper was experienced in doing these kinds of cruises, so I suspect that something unusual/unexpected happened that may or may not be accurately determined.*

There are always learnings to be derived from these incidents. whether from the understanding of what actually happened, or from conjecture...the latter, even if it has no actual relation to the event can promote discussion on what ifs and how to respond to them.

Thanks Per for posting this.

Per - That saddens me.* Heard it on morning news.* May they rest in peace.* Water of any location, at any time, and in any condition commands and deserves the utmost respect.* In their memory:*I hope the cause of this accident is understood and broadcast*as another learning to seafarers.* There are never too many lessons about dealing with treacherousness of the sea and water bourn devices.

So sorry to hear this, Per.* Please keep us posted if you learn more about this.* Hopefully, we'll all learn something that might make a difference.

Mark,

All I could determine was that it was a 24ft boat. It was not stated anywhere I read that it was an open boat. Did I miss part of the story?

A 24ft Boston Whaler or a Sea Sport would be fully capable of the trip from Channel Islands Harbor to Santa Cruz Island. However, this trip does involve crossing the shipping lanes with their 30 knot container ships.

Larry H wrote:
... this trip does involve crossing the shipping lanes with their 30 knot container ships.

Click to expand...

*There are only a handful of containerships that can make 30 knots and for the past few years they have been slowed way down by fuel prices.

It would be a very rare event to see a containership going much faster than about 20 knots in that area.

When I lived in Santa Barbara we used to make trips out to the islands in a 17' open center console outboard, it's hard to believe but we always had pfd's on. That area does get some weird weather at times.. and it changes drastically. This just proves that planning can make all the difference in a really bad day ... or a great one. The cost of four lives vs four pfd's and a hand held waterproof vhf is hard to justify

I really feel for the families

HOLLYWOOD

yes it is very sad indeed, sometimes accidents do happen and there is just nothing to be done about it. however we can learn from this, there is no doubt i am going to have a second look at a lifevest possible with epribs.

there are speculations either a whale breached on the boat or they came between tug boat and tow. these guys were very experienced, one was ex navy seal and they had all fished these waters most their lives.
here are a few photos of the remainder of the boat

*



*

God help those families and friends. If these guys were experienced and able men, whatever happened must have been so sudden and overwhelming. I hope they're able to find some answers from the wreckage.

that is some crazy damage.* Something very bad happened to those guys.* my heart goes out to the loved ones they left behind.* Four fisherman on a 70' trawler were lost off the Washington coast this weekend as well.* All the coasties found was a debris field, an oil slick and an empty life boat.* *


-- Edited by Pineapple Girl on Friday 16th of March 2012 12:04:46 PM

Unusual look to the wrecked boat in the two pictures Per provided.*
*
-********* Hull looks fairly in one piece and in shape with O/B still attached
-********* Scraps (that were somehow torn loose piled inside), matter of fact it looks entire deck and all the interior was cleared out all the way to inner hull fiberglass layer.* Were all those portions still with hull at recovery?
-********* Toe rail with port side railing still attached that was ripped completely off the hull (many fastener holes showing)... right from underneath the toe rail, which is sticking up on starboard side.*
*
Explosion, doubtful... no flash/fire signs noticeable in picts.*
*
Crushed between tug and its tend, doubtful because hull does not look compacted/crushed... although initial pressure between two large hulls could have popped off the deck and toe railing with bow rail attached... also loosed the entire deck and interior while flipping occupants out and the flipped hull still being able to regain basic shape while boat contents and occupants experienced severe tossing in turmoil water between boats and in their combined wakes.
*
Unexpectedly drawn into the close-bow wave or close-wake to a large ship and water turmoil produced all the results??
*
Wouldnt you think the hull would sink with O/B attached... maybe it did and was recovered... or...*
*
Whale breaching???
*
I look forward to hear the findings and again wish my best to souls of the departed and to their families and friends.

The one thing we all need to get out of this sad event is the need to dilligently wear our PFDs when in small / open boats. For that matter, just get used to wearing an inflatable PFD whenever under way in any vessel. You never know when you might need to go out on deck, and maybe forget the PFD. It only hurts for a minute. I know us macho boys have trouble with that, but let's get over it!!!

Carey,
I agree wholeheartedly HOWEVER these guys were in 50-55 degree water which leave you with 1 - 2 hours awake and 2 - 4 hours alive, unless you have a really good PFD and or ability to contact CG, then you are still screwed (excuse my french).
Dont get just any PFD, get a really really good one that is comfortable to wear all the time and which works really well in the water. Perhaps one which include some type of electronic communication device.

A sad tragedy. My heart truly goes out to those left behind.

Whatever the cause, it obviously looked to be catastrophic and sudden in nature. They also seem to have been experienced in the location of operation.

I'm going to research my options in PFD's and safety equipment with more diligence as a result of seeing this.

Thanks for sharing Per.

You can't make ANY assumptions based on what I have seen.. other than expolosion/fire ruled out. An upside down boat towed any length of time in choppy seas will be all torn up...and it looks like it was drug up the ramp.

Having towed quite a few in my job as an assistance tower only an on scene observer or some kind of collision marks will give us a clue.* Yeah...if someone does a thorough materials analysis...we might get more info*but depending on the jurisdiction authority and their experience/effort in this case...we may never get any more.


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 16th of March 2012 03:28:10 PM

Rarely does it seem the media have follow-up stories telling us the resolution/findings of events like these.* That's unfortunate.

*

markpierce wrote:
Rarely does it seem the media have follow-up stories telling us the resolution/findings of events like these.* That's unfortunate.

*

Click to expand...

*If you are really interested...and I'm not sure you can...but you could*write the USCG under the FOIA for any internal investigations that arise from the incident.* Or maybe just call the local Coasties and just ask if they had heard what happened...or where you could find another agency that may have more info.

In Canada we have access to Transportation Safety Board reports that are very complete, although it can take quite some time for them to be published. Perhaps there is something similar in the States?

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/marine/index.asp

we have TSB also in the US but i dont think they investigate boating accidents?
i know each and every aircraft accident is logged and available to the public.

Very sad story, and my condolences to the family, and you Per.

Looking at the pictures, I am not sure I would rule out an explosion so quickly - I believe there have been instances of propane, natural gas, or perhaps even gasoline explosions were the explosion was so violent that it "blew itself out" and simply exploded - with out setting fire or scorching much of the materials. Could it be that there was a gasoline tank leak, and then a sudden spark (bilge pump?) ignited the vapor, blowing the deck off the boat?

Just my 2 cents.

7tiger7 wrote:
Very sad story, and my condolences to the family, and you Per.

Looking at the pictures, I am not sure I would rule out an explosion so quickly - I believe there have been instances of propane, natural gas, or perhaps even gasoline explosions were the explosion was so violent that it "blew itself out" and simply exploded - with out setting fire or scorching much of the materials. Could it be that there was a gasoline tank leak, and then a sudden spark (bilge pump?) ignited the vapor, blowing the deck off the boat?

Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Explosion in a small open boat???* Possible but VERY unlikely...plus the damage is consistent with tearing apart along weak spots..I would bet it wasn't an explosion.

*

7tiger7 wrote:
Very sad story, and my condolences to the family, and you Per.

Looking at the pictures, I am not sure I would rule out an explosion so quickly - I believe there have been instances of propane, natural gas, or perhaps even gasoline explosions were the explosion was so violent that it "blew itself out" and simply exploded - with out setting fire or scorching much of the materials. Could it be that there was a gasoline tank leak, and then a sudden spark (bilge pump?) ignited the vapor, blowing the deck off the boat?

Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

*Would the bodies would*not show evidence of an explosion.* If not burns fracutres.

I had a 19 foot boat*with a Volvo I/O, Ford 302 V8, cuddy cabin, it was light and very fast.**At high speed on flat water it had a tendency to start porpoising.* I sold it*and the new owner thought the porpoising was fun.** He did it once to often,*flipped the boat throwing them both into the drink.* Fortunately, they had a quick rescue*and they survived with a broken arm, bumps and bruises.*

The boat was a total and came apart much like in that picture.* It ended up an empty hull with the deck and house broken up and ejected from the hull.* The engine is still somewhere on the bottom of Padilla Bay.

I know we're all speculating and hard to imagine that kind of damage, but clearly whatever caused it was catostraphic and quick.*

Larry B


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 17th of March 2012 11:13:31 AM

I must ask, for nothing more than to put potentials to rest.* Was the fourth person ever located or accounted for?* If so and they too passed then God rest their soul.* But, we just never know of the unscrupulousness that can at times occur.*
*
The looks in wrecked boat picts that Per provided allow for no easy answer to cause of accident.* Actually, the picts details look very odd.* Figuring that seafaring Captains placing input into this Forum thread, each with at least a couple to a few decades of water craft experience, have reached no plausible explanation for this calamity... leads me to wonder... is there an explanation that may be only recognized by an intelligently planned perpetrator.* Not meaning to place any undue dark cloud on the departed souls of the boats occupants... just asking???* As in all worldly things, somewhere there is an answer to be found.
*
Side note: As it appears it may have been a form of explosive force that blew the top off the boat, and it seems in an open boat as such that propane or gasoline fumes would be unlikely, as well as there appears no burn streaks inside the hull on Pers picts, were they divers that had over charged tanks that for some unknown reason suddenly exploded?* Affixed dynamite or*plastic explosive item??* I understand one boat occupant had Navy Seal training, was that one of the recovered?
*

And, the search goes on!* This grievous calamity, if occurring from an innocent mistake/error, needs to be figured out so we remaining seafarers can be careful to never allow its repeat.* If not from mistake or error, then justice needs to be served.

Here...I'll post it again....

You can't make ANY assumptions based on what I have seen.. other than expolosion/fire ruled out. An upside down boat towed any length of time in choppy seas will be all torn up or it mat have come apart in trying to reright it...and it looks like it was drug up the ramp.

Having towed quite a few in my job as an assistance tower only an on scene observer or some kind of collision marks will give us a clue. Yeah...if someone does a thorough materials analysis...we might get more info but depending on the jurisdiction authority and their experience/effort in this case...we may never get any more.




-- Edited by psneeld on Saturday 17th of March 2012 10:42:22 AM

Art one of the articles said the fourth person was seen from a helicopter but when the boat got there to retrieve the body it could not be found.**Stop reading so many mystery novels.* *

It is a good idea to keep a handheld VHF attached to yourself or your PFD so if you do end up in the drink you call for help.

Between Scott's and Jennifer's conclusive*posts*I guess the problem as to what happened to the boat and all four aboard*is all but officially*solved.* Can hardly wait to read the actual*report... if it becomes available. - Art

Art wrote:
Between Scott's and Jennifer's conclusive*posts*I guess the problem as to what happened to the boat and all four aboard*is all but officially*solved.* Can hardly wait to read the actual*report... if it becomes available. - Art

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*Please reread my posts...I wasn't making any assumptions...I just was pointing out that the damage shown in the picture could be from another source that I am EXTREMELY famililiar with in my current job.

I am also a certified accident investigatior (my last job in the USCG was Head of USCG Aviation Safety) so I could do an official investigation...but I certainly don't make assumptions based on newspaper reports or a few internet photos.