Confined to Quarters

SeaHorse II wrote: "To top it all off, the owner starts a thread that he thinks will tactfully and diplomatically defuse the matter."

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Andy G already pointed this out but I wanted to make sure everyone was clear that I did not start this discussion, he did. *We are two different people who just happen to share a great first name!

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*

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-- Edited by Andy R on Thursday 8th of March 2012 08:33:55 AM

None of my real life (as opposed to on-line) friends have exactly the same views as I.* As a matter o' fact, my friend's political and social views tend to run to both extremes of the spectrum. But we do have common interests; sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, pop culture .....* And some of my friends and I are tied together through common life experiences - Naval Aviation for one.* We generally tend to stay away from political discussions because there is a tacit understanding that nothing good will come of it and friendship ending hard feelings could result.* We don't have an OTDE.

That's why we need OTDE here.* Some of you are obviously* ..... wait, I can't go there ... * ... some of us are at opposite ends of the spectrum in our political and social views.* But talking about boats is the common thread that drew and keeps us together. We don't discuss politics in the boating sections and we don't talk boats in OTDE.* But, my God, we do talk!

I believe OTDE contributed to this site becoming more than just a repository of technical boat talk.* When I was first getting into trawlering I visited several times a day to gather as much information as I could on the subject.* But there comes a point where the learning curve tends to flatten out.* After that there's not much reason to visit unless there is a specific topic of interest to research. By now I know all I care to about anchors and single vs. twins.

But I am still interested in BS'ing around with people who share my love of boats* ... and airplanes, cars, guns, cool techno geek gadgets, etc.* I'm not concerned about hurting anyone's feelings or causing a rift in our friendship.* And I can always jump back to the "Power Systems" section when I need to ask for advice on how to get the left handed metric torque framage off the engine.* And I know that I'll get help, irrespective of my political beliefs.

My writing skills are pretty weak and I can't quit bring this rambling to a conclusion except to say that, IMHO, killing OTDE is a mistake and will lead to decreased participation in the overall site.*

Just sayin'

Lurker, this we can agree on.

Hypnotist

It was entertainment night at the Trawler Forum.

Claude the hypnotist explained: "I'm here to put you into a*trance;

I intend to hypnotize each and every member of the Forum."

The excitement was almost electric as Claude withdrew a beautiful antique pocket watch from his coat.

"I want each of you to keep your eyes on this antique watch. It's a very special watch.

It's been in my family for six generations."

He began to swing the watch gently back and forth while quietly*chanting, "Watch the watch, watch the watch, watch the watch..."

The*Forum became mesmerized as the watch swayed back and forth, light gleaming off its polished surface.......

A hundred pairs of eyes followed the swaying watch until, suddenly, the chain broke; it slipped from the hypnotist's fingers and fell to the floor, breaking into a hundred pieces.

"****!" said the hypnotist.

It took*months to clean up the Trawler Forum.

Claude was never invited back.

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*

My two cents? I don't think the moderators need to do anything. Just open OTDE back up. I would bet that folks will watch themselves and what they say to each other. Sure, it will get out of hand at some point. When it does, shut it down for a couple of days so we can simmer down.

Giggitoni wrote:
My two cents? I don't think the moderators need to do anything. Just open OTDE back up. I would bet that folks will watch themselves and what they say to each other. Sure, it will get out of hand at some point. When it does, shut it down for a couple of days so we can simmer down.

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*Yeah,* sort of a slap on the rist.

OK kids play nice.

If nothing else open a heading under Jokes.

One of the best parts of OTDE.

SD


-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 8th of March 2012 11:53:01 AM

Lurker hit the nail squarely on the head. Great thoughts Lurker.
My thoughts on OTDE is that it should be self policing and the moderator's should stay away. I think that if one side, right or left, gets out of line with name calling the other side will quickly shame them back to civility. Nobody's going to get physically hurt here. Hurt feelings maybe. The only time the moderator should get involved is if someone joins TF for the expressed purpose to raise havoc on OTDE with ridiculous posts as happened a few months ago with ZIPPER or whatever handle he used.
*
Ron



-- Edited by windmist on Thursday 8th of March 2012 10:14:14 AM

In addition to Off The Deep End, OTDE can also be acronym for Open Thoughts Discussion Experience.*
*
In other words... Mariners who have the guts to care for their craft, ply the seas, and act as their own Captains should well be afforded a forum venue where they can discuss and debate whatever each of them truly feels important.* Trawler Forms OTDE offers just such opportunity.* Back when... it was in the seaside pubs and taverns where seafarers met to trade their thoughts and learn from one another.* Sometimes damn good one on one fist fights or multi person brawls would break out too, I know, I was in plenty of them during the 60s and 70s in New England, NY Harbor to Maines Penobscot Bay; but thats a whole other story!
*
Well... this is the High-Tech 21^st Century now and we seafarers meeting place has more often than not become the internet to trade thoughts and learn from one another!* Also, because of the nets global-reach we can intermingle in discussions with Captains from far ports and learn things that previously were unavailable at the local pubs **Its a pretty darn peaceful place this internet communication thing, cant even start a brawl it you wanted to.* And, as has been mentioned on this thread by others, if any OTDE contributor gets way out of hand on posts then the rest of the participating Captains set em straight... or if necessary ask the forum sites owner to kick the offender out!* Captains in drinken mens bars were self policing and Captains participating in Trawler Forums OTDE can continue that timeless tradition.* In Maine I owned one of them taverns during early 70s... sometimes an offending Captain needed to be 86d (i.e. kicked the hell out) for a period of time and even sometimes for good!* BUT, we always kept the pub open for Captains who could act civilly (enough) and wanted a meeting place to trade thoughts and have discussions.* Often, a lot of thought provoking information was shared; in general some damn good times were had by all in attendance!
*
The other Trawler Forum venues are for discussing various types of boat stuff ONLY, and they are well appreciated as such with much great boating information freely traded.* OTDE is for Captains that want to Let It All Hang Out!* I believe it will do a disservice to Captains of all ages and from far and wide to not reopen Trawler Forums OTDE. - - > IMHO!! *

windmist wrote:
Lurker hit the nail squarely on the head. Great thoughts Lurker.
My thoughts on OTDE is that it should be self policing and the moderator's should stay away. I think that if one side, right or left, gets out of line with name calling the other side will quickly shame them back to civility. Nobody's going to get physically hurt here. Hurt feelings maybe. The only time the moderator should get involved is if someone joins TF for the expressed purpose to raise havoc on OTDE with ridiculous posts as happened a few months ago with ZIPPER or whatever handle he used.
*
Ron




-- Edited by windmist on Thursday 8th of March 2012 10:14:14 AM

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*Probably the best solution. ...and I would add that strict control be exercised outside of that forum...whatever is said in there...

...and I would add that strict control be exercised outside of that forum...whatever is said in there...



Perfect! Besides, regardless of what side we're on politically, we always seem to pass on our experiences when it comes to boat maintenance, handling, cruising destinations, etc., in the other sub forums. Can't we just all get along?!!!

OTDE is going to remain closed until we can convert to new forum software. The reason is the reporting and communication tools are not available now so when someone takes a below the belt shot, it's hard for our team to learn about it and deal with the issue before others start firing back. Before you know it you end up with little verbal wars going on and that's not inline with what the spirit of this site is all about.

OTDE was never intended to be an un-moderated free-for-all where anything goes. Please go re-read the rules that were posted in that forum by Doug, one of the co-founders of this community.
http://trawlerforum.activeboard.com/t13760805/please-read-this-first/

Once we are on new software the likely solution will be to have an Off Topic forum where we can talk about stuff not related to boating.* OTDE will be a sub-forum in that section specifically for certain "hot" topics like politics, religion, etc.* By separating the hot topics and tucking them deeper into a subforum we hope less people will wander in there (or get sucked in) on accident.

Please be patient while we work on the software conversion process.* Once we are live on the new software AND settled we can then address OTDE.* For now, lets talk about boating which is the primary focus of this community.

Thanks for understanding!



-- Edited by Andy R on Thursday 8th of March 2012 12:49:37 PM


-- Edited by Andy R on Thursday 8th of March 2012 12:50:11 PM

SeaHorse II wrote:

With that said, I will say "goodbye" to all the friends I've made on this site since October 2007. I have your e-mail addresses on my computer and will be in touch.

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*Walt--- Your value to forum folks like me goes far, far beyond the trivial BS that is, or was, OTDE.* The survival or extinction of OTDE is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

While I agree with the basic sentiments you've expressed here, one thing that might be imporant for all of us to remember is that while TF is open to the public it is not a public forum.* There is a difference.* TF is owned and operated by an individual (or individuals).* It's not a tax-supported division of the Department of Homeland Security although the way things are going in this country it soon may be.

So just as you called the shots in your own company, whoever owns and administers the forum this week can call the shots here.* We may not like or agree with their decisions but they own the right to make them (at least in my opinion).

I have always regarded OTDE as an entertaining diversion but I have never thought for a moment that it defined the value of the forum nor have I ever regarded any of the discussions on OTDE as actually meaning anything or mattering in the overall scheme of things.* It's lke watching "Family Guy" or "South Park."* Funny at times, a bit bizzarre at other times, but other than that, they have no value or consequence whatsoever.

TF is a boating forum, and as such, your long and diverse experience in boating has been of great value to all of us, and particularly people who are new to boating or power cruisers of the type most of us have.

So I hope you reverse your decision to leave the forum.

Besides, as owner of the best-maintained boat on the forum, I would think it would be your duty to remain and continue to set the standard for the rest of us.* Otherwise the bar will be lowered and as confusion and indecision spread throughout the ranks, the government will see and seize the opportunity and the forum will be absorbed into the DHS.


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 8th of March 2012 01:09:24 PM

Do as you see fit Andy, after all, this is now your shop!
*
Da Customer is always correct... until Da Boss feels corrector!* I know... cause I be a Boss too!!* LOL*
*

But, I do implore you to give us boat Captains opportunity for relatively open-conversation-communications... otherwise we Captains could simply act as gurlie-boys and chat about the color of nail polish and hair dyes... just kidding kinda!

Marin wrote:SeaHorse II wrote:

With that said, I will say "goodbye" to all the friends I've made on this site since October 2007. I have your e-mail addresses on my computer and will be in touch.

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*Walt--- Your value to forum folks like me goes far, far beyond the trivial BS that is, or was, OTDE.* The survival or extinction of OTDE is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

While I agree with the basic sentiments you've expressed here, one thing that might be imporant for all of us to remember is that while TF is open to the public it is not a public forum.* There is a difference.* TF is owned and operated by an individual (or individuals).* It's not a tax-supported division of the Department of Homeland Security although the way things are going in this country it soon may be.

So just as you called the shots in your own company, whoever owns and administers the forum this week can call the shots here.* We may not like or agree with their decisions but they own the right to make them (at least in my opinion).

I have always regarded OTDE as an entertaining diversion but I have never thought for a moment that it defined the value of the forum nor have I ever regarded any of the discussions on OTDE as actually meaning anything or mattering in the overall scheme of things.* It's lke watching "Family Guy" or "South Park."* Funny at times, a bit bizzarre at other times, but other than that, they have no value or consequence whatsoever.

TF is a boating forum, and as such, your long and diverse experience in boating has been of great value to all of us, and particularly people who are new to boating or power cruisers of the type most of us have.

So I hope you reverse your decision to leave the forum.

Besides, as owner of the best-maintained boat on the forum, I would think it would be your duty to remain and continue to set the standard for the rest of us.* Otherwise the bar will be lowered and as confusion and indecision spread throughout the ranks, the government will see and seize the opportunity and the forum will be absorbed into the DHS.



-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 8th of March 2012 01:09:24 PM

*Seconded.

Good God! We're going to be singing Kumbaya here before long. Give the reprobates a strict talking to. If you have repeat action, as at least one of the current offenders is, give him time on the beach. Revoke his posting privledges for 30 days. If he decides to come back it's with the understanding that another violation nets him 90 days on the beach.

Now, if you want to add peer pressure, post a list of those who got the bad boy nastygram. And if someone gets beached, post his name and the dates he's banned.

If someone wants to play wounded because the rules are enforced, that's their problem. Let them quit, whine, cry, sulk, or whatever it is that 5 year olds do. Doesn't ODTE ask for proof of age before admitting anyone? If they aren't old enough to enter, then block that access for them.


Ken

****ing-A*...* who are the reprobates?* I never go into OTDE because I came here to talk about Trawlers.* There are a bunch of A-holes here in this forum who will make you feel stupid, but if you hang in there you might also learn something.* I don't care what your politics are, I just want to know.* I never visit OTDE because I want to stay alive -- why do you care what everyone else thinks?* Just go live your life!

My Grandma used to say that everyone needs a big dose of Black Draught every now and then.

Andy R wrote:
OTDE is going to remain closed until we can convert to new forum software. The reason is the reporting and communication tools are not available now so when someone takes a below the belt shot, it's hard for our team to learn about it and deal with the issue before others start firing back. Before you know it you end up with little verbal wars going on and that's not inline with what the spirit of this site is all about.

OTDE was never intended to be an un-moderated free-for-all where anything goes. Please go re-read the rules that were posted in that forum by Doug, one of the co-founders of this community.
http://trawlerforum.activeboard.com/t13760805/please-read-this-first/

Once we are on new software the likely solution will be to have an Off Topic forum where we can talk about stuff not related to boating.* OTDE will be a sub-forum in that section specifically for certain "hot" topics like politics, religion, etc.* By separating the hot topics and tucking them deeper into a subforum we hope less people will wander in there (or get sucked in) on accident.

Please be patient while we work on the software conversion process.* Once we are live on the new software AND settled we can then address OTDE.* For now, lets talk about boating which is the primary focus of this community.

Thanks for understanding!



-- Edited by Andy R on Thursday 8th of March 2012 12:49:37 PM



-- Edited by Andy R on Thursday 8th of March 2012 12:50:11 PM

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Classic failure of new ownership.

You bought it because it works.

You immediately fiddle with it without understanding why it works.

You break it because of that lack of understanding thing.

You fail to set it back to the original setting and will continue to not understand why it doesn't work the way it originally did.

*

Ted

Greetings,
Hmmmm......PMM all over again?

Egregious wrote:
****ing-A*...* who are the reprobates?* I never go into OTDE because I came here to talk about Trawlers.* There are a bunch of A-holes here in this forum who will make you feel stupid, but if you hang in there you might also learn something.* I don't care what your politics are, I just want to know.* I never visit OTDE because I want to stay alive -- why do you care what everyone else thinks?* Just go live your life!

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**Wit ya bro!!!

The proposed plan is simply to put he heated topics in their own section separate from the other Off Topic stuff. No more, no less.

When I logged into this forum it immediately reminded me of the stock website I owned and ran. I was constantly getting*in-boxed messages from Billy who complained about Bobby because Bobby would do whatever he could to provoke Harry who wasn't the smartest knife in the drawer. Harry would make statements that needed corrections but couldn't understand what was being explained to him.*

If anyone hit below the belt or showed signs of a personal attack, I sent them a warning and the next time I plucked them from the site even being a paying member. I had zero tolerance for any personal attacks. Only paying members could post, free members only read so that kept Bobby from changing his name to Mary just to show up to get the next dig at Harry.**

The problem stems from those that think they know something and try to correct those that also think they know that same something better than the first person but the first person can't admit on making a mistake or misunderstanding the topic, not to mention the fact that some can't understand the written word.

The best method is to just ignore anyone that tries to keep a topic going and going but the explanation is going nowhere. No response sometimes is the best response.

An American tourist asks a Newfie
"Why do them scuba divers always fall*backwards off the boat?"
To which the Newfoundlander replies:
"Lord thunderin' J'sus by'e, you must be stunned as me arse. If they fell forwards, they'd still be in the frig'in boat!"*

It is all in how you read into and respond to things!!

Good luck Andy!

Elwin


-- Edited by Ocean Breeze NL on Thursday 8th of March 2012 11:42:18 PM

I think the OTDE certainly performs a really important function, and by and large does sort of control itself. Some do get a bit personal, and I agree it is possible to go over the top, and I think the suggestion made by 2Bucks of just removing really bad posts is a good one. If someone gets too carried away, what better way to bring them around than to delete their posts and make clear that is what happened. As to being sent to Coventry for a certain period - I doubt that necessary, but maybe for a repeat offender....?

One good thing could be that I'm fairly sure the new software will have a 'report post' function - most do - so the moderators can be alerted more quickly if things are getting out of hand.

I don't go on OTDE much because it is usually about politics, and US politics at that, and I feel too far removed from that to make much relevant comment. But I enjoy some of the repartee - and yes - some of the jokes...

So Walt, don't take your bat and ball and leave just because of that. However, if you do part with your boat, and posting/reading the forum gets too painful - that we would understand. But we'd still miss yuh...

Peter B wrote:One good thing could be that I'm fairly sure the new software will have a 'report post' function - most do - so the moderators can be alerted more quickly if things are getting out of hand.

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*Peter nailed it on the head.* The exact feature we are holding out for before turning the OTDE back on is the report post feature.* It's a key part of alerting the team that someone thinks a post crossed the line.* Our team will then discuss this and decide how to handle the issue (delete post and PM member, do nothing, etc).

Please hang tight while we work on the conversion and our team has time to get our processes straitened out.

Andy R wrote:Peter B wrote:
One good thing could be that I'm fairly sure the new software will have a 'report post' function - most do - so the moderators can be alerted more quickly if things are getting out of hand.

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*Peter nailed it on the head.* The exact feature we are holding out for before turning the OTDE back on is the report post feature.* It's a key part of alerting the team that someone thinks a post crossed the line.* Our team will then discuss this and decide how to handle the issue (delete post and PM member, do nothing, etc).

Please hang tight while we work on the conversion and our team has time to get our processes straitened out.

Cool, Andy R, That is Good to Hear...*TY for posting a plan of action detail toward reinstating OTDE!!**And, Nice Going Peter B... for placing that on the table!

In between meetings, as I sit at my desk on business*phone conferences, editing/writing reports,*and doing*interactive email most days... tiz a couple forums that help me maintain sanity!* Trawler Forum has been a performer... to help me keep my sanity that is, anyway!!* LOL

*

The snag with the "report post" option on OTDE is that the thinner skinned majority can now just press a key rather than articulate a complaint and actually post it with their identity.

It effectively becomes a means to complain and silence unpopular ideas without ever having to explain or justify the action.

Has anyone ever heard of the concept of "tryranny of the majority"?

RickB wrote:
The snag with the "report post" option on OTDE is that the thinner skinned majority can now just press a key rather than articulate a complaint and actually post it with their identity.

It effectively becomes a means to complain and silence unpopular ideas without ever having to explain or justify the action.

Has anyone ever heard of the concept of "tryranny of the majority"?

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Howdy Rick

That is quite true and a good point you make.* However, Andy R needs to start somewhere so he and his associates, as new owners,*can feel somewhat comfortable with the range of OTDE... cause posts in there can get a bit hairy and some pretty dumb/stupid/un-feeling items can be stated by some contributors!* As a threads heat rises, I feel we all at times can be at least somewhat at fault.

Thin Skined mariners should stay the heck out of OTDE - Period!**Thin Skinners who*report too often should then*simply also be banned from OTDE... by the management.* If they can't take the heat - they shouldn't be allowed to suit up!* Nobody is forced to enter, read, or participate in OTDE.

IMO... OTDE should be for Captains who are ready for honest, deep debates and statements that let most (if not all) of their thoughts hang out!* And, of course, for some greatly ribald jokes to be placed!

At least thats my half dollar! - Cheers! Art

*

Again, all the experts telling the new guy how to run his forum.
I'm not sure but I think he's up to about 26 forums now?
And don't worry folks, it won't change much, a forum is a forum.
He probably makes more in a day than anyone here has in a year.
This thread should be in the funny section.

Greetings,
Dag nabbit, I want buttons so's I can reportify the mudsills and the flannel mouths.

RickB wrote:
The snag with the "report post" option on OTDE is that the thinner skinned majority can now just press a key rather than articulate a complaint and actually post it with their identity.

It effectively becomes a means to complain and silence unpopular ideas without ever having to explain or justify the action.

Has anyone ever heard of the concept of "tryranny of the majority"?

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*The silencing is done by the moderators...not the reporter.