Need some help troubleshooting 4045 John Deere

The real problem is the air police.

Their exhaust demands are the cause of 30,000 PSI fuel systems and injector systems that must fire 3,4,5 times for each power stroke.

The extreme heat required for cat converters and DEF has kept them off smaller vessels .

The boating world would be delighted to to return to mechanical engines , but the bar keeps being raised!

So far no eng mfg has created an easy to convert engine , change cylinder heads ? to allow a nice fixable 3rd world system.

FF said:

The real problem is the air police.

Their exhaust demands are the cause of 30,000 PSI fuel systems and injector systems that must fire 3,4,5 times for each power stroke.

The extreme heat required for cat converters and DEF has kept them off smaller vessels .

The boating world would be delighted to to return to mechanical engines , but the bar keeps being raised!

So far no eng mfg has created an easy to convert engine , change cylinder heads ? to allow a nice fixable 3rd world system.

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FF, all the issues associated with high pressure common rail diesel engines are short term and will be solved next year. After last night's presidential debate aka war on fossil fuels, it's pretty clear that by 2022, all our boats are either going to be Dock Queens or powered by solar, sails, or oars.

Ted

O C Diver said:

This technology isn't new, probably 20+ years old. Probably in excess of 95% of the cars and trucks on the road in the USA have ECUs and related electronic components. The world is not coming to an end because of ECUs.

Ted

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The problem is this isn't the 20 year old technology of ECU's. The shift is to networked, 'secured' systems. On agricultural equipment and some cars and trucks the sensors and various components all have unique serial numbers and are networked with CAN bus. The newer ECUs that are built this way are being setup to only allow acceptance of new parts by an authorized user and the parts have to be accepted by the system with proprietary software. The battle has been over this software and whether a user has the right to repair their own equipment or not.

You can physically change out a part but the computer will refuse to use it until it gets authorized to do so. If that tech moves over to marine engines it may simply mean that you will have to have service done by an authorized technician.

Give me an old CAT motor. If it has fuel and you can get it to turn over it will run.

So you "own" an engine but you are not allowed to work on it?

ancora said:

So you "own" an engine but you are not allowed to work on it?

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I think that's the general idea. As far as I know, this has not yet happened on Marine engines. It's in the agricultural world where the battle is really heating up as well as with consumer electronics.

sbman said:

The problem is this isn't the 20 year old technology of ECU's. The shift is to networked, 'secured' systems. On agricultural equipment and some cars and trucks the sensors and various components all have unique serial numbers and are networked with CAN bus. The newer ECUs that are built this way are being setup to only allow acceptance of new parts by an authorized user and the parts have to be accepted by the system with proprietary software. The battle has been over this software and whether a user has the right to repair their own equipment or not.

You can physically change out a part but the computer will refuse to use it until it gets authorized to do so. If that tech moves over to marine engines it may simply mean that you will have to have service done by an authorized technician.

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Yes, I'm aware of what you're saying. It's been going on in the car industry for a number of years. Own a BMW and want to change the battery? You will have to get it recognized by the internal computer.

My point was that these units on a whole are very reliable. Sure, there are going to be some things you can't repair yourself and will have to go to the dealer. It's always been that way. I don't have the expertise to rebuild an injection pump. I'm likely going to someone to get a new one or have mine rebuilt. I guess a lot of this speaks to having a good relationship with your dealer.

I'm pretty sure JD charges their dealers for software. If I were JD, I would offer the consumer the option to buy the software for their specific make, model, and serial numerbered unit. Sell them the PC interface also. If they want to purchase the next upgraded version, sell them that also. Lots of money to be made selling software.

Ted

O C Diver said:

My point was that these units on a whole are very reliable. Sure, there are going to be some things you can't repair yourself and will have to go to the dealer. It's always been that way. I don't have the expertise to rebuild an injection pump. I'm likely going to someone to get a new one or have mine rebuilt. I guess a lot of this speaks to having a good relationship with your dealer.

Ted

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That is true. With an injection pump you can carry a spare and bolt it on if you wanted to, nothing prevents you from doing so. With the artificial restrictions put in with software, the options are limited for no reason that benefits the user/owner. There are going to be far reaching implications hinging on the result of these fights over 'right to repair'. It will be interesting to see what happens. I see that there is another thread on this very topic.

You will be receiving updates to your vehicles ecm over WiFi before very long. As soon as they figure out the legality. The technology is already there. Just like your iPhone.
Many vehicles are on the cusp of pushing trouble codes directly to the dealer via cellular data. The problem will be understood and part waiting before you arrive. There is a lot of upside.

Remember your first car in the 60’s or 70’s? If you made it to 100,000 miles how many spark plugs, tires, ball joints, mufflers, or wheel bearings had you replaced by then? And the body rot?

Electric pump

I believe the electric fuel pump should be installed after the racor. That info is from racor.

"I guess a lot of this speaks to having a good relationship with your dealer."

Easy with a farm tractor , but hard to do for a cruising boat.

4045TFM dying

Hi there, I'a the lead mechanic for a large tug boat operation. We have John Deere 6068TFM engines for alot of our gen sets. We have chased this problem for several years with the injection pump control valve error and engine randomly dying. We have done ECM's and injection pumps over and over. Finally found a fix which is the two control wires in the ECM connector wear out or get dirty after hours and hours of running. These wires cannot carry enough current to operate the injection pump control solenoid. The repair is either a new wiring harness which is very expensive or take the two pins out of the connector clip them off and re crimp new sockets on the wires. These are Delphi socket part# 12103881. You could probably get the John deere guy to get his pin kit out and do that. I will attach a wiring schematic of the ECM and ECM plug connector. The injector control solenoid wires are K2 and A3 in the connector. Hope this helps as it drove me and my department nuts for a couple years. View attachment JD6068electrical.pdf

View attachment ecmplug.pdf

4045TFM dying

one more thing I forgot to mention. On a few of our gen sets the A3 wire did not match the ECM connector schematic for placement. I always checked the wires with an OHM meter to the two pin connector at the injection pump to make sure I have the correct two wires in the ECM connector. Happy wrenching