Toilet smell

Sorry for the possibly hijack of the OP's thread, but since Peggy is involved here I'll just ask a simple question for y'all's opinions on this...

We have a vacuflush system with two heads. All is well, except the fwd head bowl flush valve allows a slow leak-down (emptying) of the bowl, which of course keeps the vacuum pump working, until it is sucking air and I have to shut the head pump DC source off. Takes about 10 minutes for the bowl to be drained from a normal flush. This is a pain in the you-know-what.

Thanks to reading many of the past "HeadMistress" conversations here, I've tried using a brush up under the edge of the opening with the pedal pushed and valve open... to no avail.

The question here is, aside from replacing valve or removing the bowl for a thorough cleaning from inside out, would the cup of white vinegar in the bowl possibly work...? I'm guessing it would need multiple applications as the contents will drain out in the 10 minutes or so...?

Thanks in advance for any input... sorry for the hijack!!

We have a vacuflush system with two heads. All is well, except the fwd head bowl flush valve allows a slow leak-down (emptying) of the bowl, which of course keeps the vacuum pump working, until it is sucking air and I have to shut the head pump DC source off. Takes about 10 minutes for the bowl to be drained from a normal flush. This is a pain in the you-know-what.

I suspect you may be guilty of a common practice among VF owners: easing the pedal back up instead of just letting go of it to allow it to spring back into place (that's why the pedal is spring loaded). Over time, that weakens the spring...the "dome" no longer seals tightly, resulting in the kind of slow leak that you describe.

If you're NOT guilty of doing that, over time--how long depends on how much use the toilet gets over several years--the spring can simply weaken with use.

Or, using any brush that isn't a very soft one and/or an abrasive cleanser can score the seal, which will cause it to leak.

The only cure in any of the above cases is what SeaLand used to call a "ball shaft and cartridge" kit (I think they've renamed it but they'll know what you're asking for) that replaces the dome and spring assembly.


As long as we're discussing VF systems...I've written a piece I call "VacuFlush 101" that describes how it works (a surprising number of owners think they do but don't) and also how much water it really needs to keep it trouble free. I'll be glad to send it to any of you who'd like a copy if you'll send me a PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM).


--Peggie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil23
Peggy is the "Holy Grail" of Dunnies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not disputing it, in the least. Peggy's the bomb!
But that phrase is funny! :lol:


I don't think I've ever been described as a chamber pot before.


--Peggie

toilet smell

Been using Peggie"s vinegar method for two months now. Absolutely no smell for a month or more. When it returns I get out my bucket , vinegar and water and 5 min later its good to go for another month or so. No hose removal/replacing , no tank additives etc !

Stinky - We just purchased a 2005 Mainship 34 T last week.

Hello TF Gurus. We just purchased a 2005 Mainship 34 T last week.
I had a local expert over this morning to discuss replacing the Jabsco toilet with a VacuFlush. Has anyone with a similar vintage MS 34 replace their Jabsco with a VacuFlush? Hi Bacchus, We’re you able to remove or replace the 1” exit hose from the tank to the holding tank?

I would not change to a Vacuflush system if you do not already have one. They seem to require more maintenance and they take up quite a bit of space with the vacuum generator and tank. Look at Raritan Marine Elegance. They are a highly rated head and don’t require the whole vacuum system. Ask Peggy, the Head Mistress, she knows more about marine sanitation than all of us put together.

Comodave said:

I would not change to a Vacuflush system if you do not already have one. They seem to require more maintenance and they take up quite a bit of space with the vacuum generator and tank. Look at Raritan Marine Elegance. They are a highly rated head and don’t require the whole vacuum system. Ask Peggy, the Head Mistress, she knows more about marine sanitation than all of us put together.

Click to expand...

A Vacu Flush is not going to require any more maintenance than other toilet systems.

All marine toilets are PITA.

A well designed and installed VacuFlush toilet is the key. Many VacuFlush systems installed by boat manufacturers are poorly designed and executed. Usually too many tight bends, hose low spots, too many restrictive fittings, too long of a hose run and inadequate holding tank vents. Boat manufacturers also like placing the vacuum generators in inaccessible places.

Owner installed VacuFlush is sometimes installed better. But, many of the same mistakes listed above are also made by owner installers.

If the parameters for hose runs are followed during design, most problems will be minimized. All toilet users should be instructed on the proper use of the VacuFlush and realistically, any marine toilet.

A VacuFlush is easier to work on than electric toilets that have all the components crammed into a toilets base.

A leak on a VacuFlush is harder to locate because it works on vacuum and there will not be liquid leakage.

Having been on numerous boats with various marine toilets, VacuFlush seems very popular and is easier to operate than some of the others.

Full disclosure: I am a retired VacuFlush dealer. We sold and worked on VacuFlush, Rariton, Tecma, Jabsco and other brands of toilets.

The VacuFlush toilet did not have any more issues than other brands.

Most issues were caused by children, guests and new owners.

Once we corrected the improper boat manufacturers installation on many VacuFlush systems the problems decreased. Many service calls ended up educating the boat owner about the proper use and maintenance of marine toilets, including VacuFlush.

syjos said:

A Vacu Flush is not going to require any more maintenance than other toilet systems.

All marine toilets are PITA.

A well designed and installed VacuFlush toilet is the key. Many VacuFlush systems installed by boat manufacturers are poorly designed and executed. Usually too many tight bends, hose low spots, too many restrictive fittings, too long of a hose run and inadequate holding tank vents. Boat manufacturers also like placing the vacuum generators in inaccessible places.

Owner installed VacuFlush is sometimes installed better. But, many of the same mistakes listed above are also made by owner installers.

If the parameters for hose runs are followed during design, most problems will be minimized. All toilet users should be instructed on the proper use of the VacuFlush and realistically, any marine toilet.

A VacuFlush is easier to work on than electric toilets that have all the components crammed into a toilets base.

A leak on a VacuFlush is harder to locate because it works on vacuum and there will not be liquid leakage.

Having been on numerous boats with various marine toilets, VacuFlush seems very popular and is easier to operate than some of the others.

Full disclosure: I am a retired VacuFlush dealer. We sold and worked on VacuFlush, Rariton, Tecma, Jabsco and other brands of toilets.

The VacuFlush toilet did not have any more issues than other brands.

Most issues were caused by children, guests and new owners.

Once we corrected the improper boat manufacturers installation on many VacuFlush systems the problems decreased. Many service calls ended up educating the boat owner about the proper use and maintenance of marine toilets, including VacuFlush.

Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. All marine toilets are not a pain in the ass but Vacuflush certainly meets the criteria for whatever the many reasons. Meanwhile Marine Elegance toilets are pretty much flush and forget and when, in say 10 years, something does go wrong a simple swap of the innards at the back of the bowl has you up and pooping in about in hour, good for another 10 years.

catalinajack said:

I respectfully disagree. All marine toilets are not a pain in the ass but Vacuflush certainly meets the criteria for whatever the many reasons. Meanwhile Marine Elegance toilets are pretty much flush and forget and when, in say 10 years, something does go wrong a simple swap of the innards at the back of the bowl has you up and pooping in about in hour, good for another 10 years.

Click to expand...

Marine toilets are more complicated than domestic toilets, crammed into tight spaces, use smaller hoses/pipes, runs not always downhill, hose clamp connections, mixes electricity and water etc. That's a recipe for PITA.

Most boat owners don't have problems with their Vacu Flush toilets. Most would not have any other toilet.

Most boat owners don't have problems with their Marine Elegance toilets. Most would not have any other toilets.

Any boater going 10 years without performing some kind of proactive service on their marine toilet while at their home dock, will sure to be seen sitting on the guest dock at a marina rebuilding their toilet. Unless the boat has two heads.

catalinajack said:

I respectfully disagree. All marine toilets are not a pain in the ass but Vacuflush certainly meets the criteria for whatever the many reasons. Meanwhile Marine Elegance toilets are pretty much flush and forget and when, in say 10 years, something does go wrong a simple swap of the innards at the back of the bowl has you up and pooping in about in hour, good for another 10 years.

Click to expand...

I'm with you!
I've spent more time helping a friend repair / reengineer his VacUFlush unit than I've spent on my 2 boats and 20 yrs w conventional elec heads.
VUF nice when they work but a PITA when they dont.
The friend won't even flush TP in his and still had issues.
IMHO if you put one in make sure its accessible so you can pull the complete unit out to clean, rebuild, test it.
His boat Mfg... high end big $... told him to cut his teak & holly flooring out and they'd send him material to repair it.
Not acceptable in my book.
I'd consult w Peggie before making a decision.
I'm not saying they don't work... they work fine when they work but better have access and room to work on them orull them out to work on when they dont... and have spare parts. His uses fresh water so factor in FW supply & use to the decision.

Dilly Dally said:

Hello TF Gurus. We just purchased a 2005 Mainship 34 T last week.

I had a local expert over this morning to discuss replacing the Jabsco toilet with a VacuFlush. Has anyone with a similar vintage MS 34 replace their Jabsco with a VacuFlush? Hi Bacchus, We’re you able to remove or replace the 1” exit hose from the tank to the holding tank?

Click to expand...

Why are you interested in replacing your Jabsco?

The Marine Elegance has way fewer things to go wrong with it compared to a Vacuflush. It does not have the vacuum generator and the other parts to take up room in the boat. Sorry, no one will ever convince me that they are no more maintenance than a ME head. I have a friend that religiously maintained his VF head and had issues with it no matter what. On the other hand the ME I have owned had zero issues. And if it ever were to have issues, they were simple to fix. How many threads have you seen here about VF vacuum leaks and how to trace them down? Many more threads than how to fix the ME heads. I don’t recall one about ME repairs, maybe I missed them but I don’t remember any.

Dilly Dally
I reread your post and my reply and not sure I answered all of what you asked...
I did not replace and hose from toilet to holding tank if that was part of your question. I did pull my toilet this spring to rebuild it and had to cut off a section of discharge hose when reinstalling. Hose clamps had damaged the end of the hose so I needed to get to a new section for a good seal. I was able to pull enough hose as there was some slack but I did not attempt to completely remove & replace.

The new vent to the bow was fairly easy to push forward from the hatch in the fwd cabin sole. Removing the headboard panel provided visibility and room enough to install an additional thru hull and clamp the new vent.
I did use a straight thru hull per Peggie's recommendation to avoid plugging and to aid back flush if necessary.
Have spent 60 straight days aboard cruising and no issues.

Dilly Dally said:

Hello TF Gurus. We just purchased a 2005 Mainship 34 T last week.
I had a local expert over this morning to discuss replacing the Jabsco toilet with a VacuFlush. Has anyone with a similar vintage MS 34 replace their Jabsco with a VacuFlush?

Click to expand...

We had a VacuFlush in our previous boat, a Jabsco electric in this one. The VacuFlush was OK, although it'd would wake the dead at 0300 or so... In any case, I prefer the electric.

Which Jabsco do you have? Quiet Flush, or not? Manual or electric? Fresh water or salt?

Why do you want to change?

catalinajack said:

Meanwhile Marine Elegance toilets are pretty much flush and forget and when, in say 10 years, something does go wrong a simple swap of the innards at the back of the bowl has you up and pooping in about in hour, good for another 10 years.

Click to expand...

Our Jabsco QF has been pretty much the same...

-Chris

Comodave said:

The Marine Elegance has way fewer things to go wrong with it compared to a Vacuflush. It does not have the vacuum generator and the other parts to take up room in the boat. Sorry, no one will ever convince me that they are no more maintenance than a ME head. I have a friend that religiously maintained his VF head and had issues with it no matter what. On the other hand the ME I have owned had zero issues. And if it ever were to have issues, they were simple to fix. How many threads have you seen here about VF vacuum leaks and how to trace them down? Many more threads than how to fix the ME heads. I don’t recall one about ME repairs, maybe I missed them but I don’t remember any.

Click to expand...

And that, my friend, is exactly the point. My sense is the folks extolling Vacuflush toilets are Vacuflush owners who are stuck with a cranky, high maintenance system. And what amazes me is the fact that a Marine Elegance head isn't all that expensive given the ease of installation and the years of maintenance-free use.

Has anyone dealt with toilet odour on a Mainship 400 2004, does anyone know of the location of breather filter.
The toilet is a Sealand vacuflush system.

I need a bit more information/details. Are you experiencing odor INSIDE the boat, or out the tank vent the toilet is flushed. If inside the boat, where is the odor concentrated--from the bowl? All the time or only when the toilet is flushed? Or is the odor where the vacuum generator, all the hoses and the holding tank are (the bilge?)?

If odor is out the vent (what you called the "breather"), the holding tank--which is not a part of the VacuFlush system--is the source, not the VacuFlush system. Any filter will be in the vent line...there may or may not be one.


Or are you experiencing odor in more than one location?



--Peggie

The smell is seems to originate from both inside the boat from the bilge continuously and the vent when flushed.
The PO hardly used the head, i have already had to cut an access hatch to reinstate the holding tank gauge sender, the sender unit was loose.

Kevin

One possibility is that it's not really head-related odor. Clean the bilge down to within an inch of its life, see if the odor goes away. And if there's a shower sump in there, clean that. And clean the P-traps on your head and galley sinks.

Another possibility is that maybe your head-related hoses have become permeated. Wipe hard with a hot, wet rag... then sniff. If it knocks you over, you might need new hoses.

-Chris

The two most common sources of odor inside a boat are wet dirty bilge and permeated sanitation hoses. A wet dirty bilge can make a whole boat smell like a swamp or even a sewer....the cure is a real cleaning instead of just dumping some "miracle" bilge cleaner into it and calling it done. If your bilge(s) are dry, we can rule that one out. Odor from a sour shower sump is usually confined to the head because the odor escapes through the shower drain.

New hoses are the only cure for permeated sanitation hoses (Even a little waste left to sit in hoses can permeate 'em, and toilets that are rarely used are never rinsed after flushing, so it's a good bet that your hoses are the source of your odor.) Wet some clean rags in HOT water--as hot as you can handle...wring each out and wrap it around a section of hose...use a clean rag for each section. When rags have cooled, remove each one and smell it...if you can't smell anything on the rag, that section of hose hasn't permeated...but if you can, even faintly, that section has.

When it comes to replacement, sanitation hoses are NOT the place to go with the least expensive 'cuz cheap sanitation hoses permeate in a heartbeat. Raritan SaniFlex hose Raritan Saniflex Sanitation Hose has proven to be 100% odor permeation resistant and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent like a hairpin without kinking, which makes installing a lot easier than most other hoses.

As for your odor out the vent, remove any vent line filter if there is one and replace the "vent" thru-hull with an open bulkhead or "mushroom" thru-hull...thoroughly flush out your holding tank (NOT to be confused with the vacuum tank in the VacuFlush) and start using No-Flex Digestor Noflex Digestor according to directions.



--Peggie

If you can, replace the sanitation hose with white PVC ridgid plastic pipe. Buy the DWV type PVC which is made for sanitation. There are all kinds of long sweep 90, 45, 22.5 degree bends in addition to couplings. Hose cuffs are available for hose connections.

Any hose, will eventually permeate odor. Hoses permeate because of it's composition to make it flexible.

PVC DWV pipe will never permeate odor.

will try these options, have already ordered noflex digestor

PVC for sure but while at it, consider adding provisions for a cleanout especially if your using raw water flushing

Bellmouth pipes flow better with less debris hang-up than regular PVC with connectors. I don't know if it can be had in thick-walled pipe tho. The fewer bends and connections the better to keep clogging possibilities to a minimum. Long sweeping bends keep things moving better than tight 90-degree street style elbows. Think more along the lines of PVC conduit elbows.


This type.



Not this type.

I was recommending these elbows.

DWV for sewage.

Also....an old electrician trick...you can bend PVC pipe into any shape needed, by heating with a propane torch or hot air gun. Then set it by cooling with a wet towel.

syjos said:

I was recommending these elbows.

DWV for sewage.

Click to expand...

Those would work great. They're hard to find in my area without going to a plumbing supply house or ordering them.

greysailor said:

Also....an old electrician trick...you can bend PVC pipe into any shape needed, by heating with a propane torch or hot air gun. Then set it by cooling with a wet towel.

Click to expand...

I use a $9 Harbor Freight gun. Sweeping 90's are to do without a jig and filling the pipe with BBs or sand.

HeadMistress said:

When it comes to replacement, sanitation hoses are NOT the place to go with the least expensive 'cuz cheap sanitation hoses permeate in a heartbeat. Raritan SaniFlex hose Raritan Saniflex Sanitation Hose

Click to expand...

Peggie, would you suggest the saniflex on the raw water intakes as well or will the Trident 148 suffice?

Try closing the raw water in take and flush with fresh water from a gallon jug or the shower head if it reaches. If that makes a difference plumb the head to fresh water with a back flow preventer or from a separate tank. Used the shower on my old trawler and solved issue. Simple solution

lipets said:

Peggie, would you suggest the saniflex on the raw water intakes as well or will the Trident 148 suffice?

Click to expand...

Shields or Trident #148 will work just fine for vent line and toilet inlet line.


--Peggie