Northbound Upper Mississippi August 2019

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Medic

Medic

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
116
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Mimi's Oasis
Vessel Make
North Pacific 49
Any first hand (or second hand) info on the Upper Mississippi River situation? Interested in knowing the speed of the current, especially between Cairo, IL and Alton, IL. The run from Green Turtle Bay Marina, where my Meridian 469 (only one ever made) sits to Alton must basically be done on whatever fuel I have onboard from GTB. Amazing that you cannot get fuel in St. Louis, but that's the way it is. Fighting the current the whole way will make the run challenging for me from a fuel standpoint.


Also, I fully appreciate that the barges must get preferential treatment with regards to locking through, but I wonder if pleasure boats are getting ANY reasonable opportunities to use the locks. I understand waiting for an hour or two, or even five hours for a big barge to get through, but I'm wondering if each lock is taking half a day or even longer to get an opportunity to lock through. Thanks in advance.
 
https://corpslocks.usace.army.mil/lpwb/f?p=121:3:10816126335292::NO:::

This will show you the queue's at the various locks and average transit times.

Don't overlook Hoppie's Marina in Imperial, MO.

If you have any doubt about having enough range, then either get some bladders or barrels or some extra means of carrying additional fuel. Do not gamble.

We had no issues locking through on the Mississippi as a pleasure boat and heading the wrong way, against the traffic, you should have even less. While commercial traffic is prioritized, recreational isn't ignored. Looking right at this moment the longest delay in that area is 160 minutes at Lock 27. The last recreational boat up in that lock (two days ago) arrived at 15:30 and locked from 18:18 to 18:35. The last down arrived at 13:00 and locked from 13:20-13:36. Luck of the draw.

Hoppie's makes your distance about 208 miles or 181 nm.
 
Has Hoppie's re-opened?
BandB said:
https://corpslocks.usace.army.mil/lpwb/f?p=121:3:10816126335292::NO:::

This will show you the queue's at the various locks and average transit times.

Don't overlook Hoppie's Marina in Imperial, MO.

If you have any doubt about having enough range, then either get some bladders or barrels or some extra means of carrying additional fuel. Do not gamble.

We had no issues locking through on the Mississippi as a pleasure boat and heading the wrong way, against the traffic, you should have even less. While commercial traffic is prioritized, recreational isn't ignored. Looking right at this moment the longest delay in that area is 160 minutes at Lock 27. The last recreational boat up in that lock (two days ago) arrived at 15:30 and locked from 18:18 to 18:35. The last down arrived at 13:00 and locked from 13:20-13:36. Luck of the draw.

Hoppie's makes your distance about 208 miles or 181 nm.
Click to expand...
 
Not that I’ve heard as of 7-16-19, I asked a friend who would know and the answer was not yet.
 
Unfortunately, the latest rumors are that they have no plans to rebuild and reopen. They'd talked about closing for a long time but seems like the floods may have decided for them. Even when open was always best to check to be sure they had fuel. It's a loss so all the more need to carry bladders or drums.

I have a friend who delivers and retrieves a lot of boats from Panama and similar areas that lack range and he greatly prefers drums to bladders.
 
We actually ran 240 nm between fueling as we fueled in Grafton and then at Green Turtle Bay. But that was also down river until we hit the Ohio. I would plan on 252 miles or 220 nm as the absolute minimum and that's a real stretch
for many cruisers when you're going upstream.
 
Thank you to those who replied. BandB, thank you very much for the link to the thread regarding times waiting for, and then getting through, the locks. I checked it out and it was very helpful. I will definitely have it on my laptop when I start my journey.


I have been keeping track of Hoppies and I'm afraid they don't seem to be an option.


I will be carrying some extra diesel, likely in 5 gallon containers. I hesitate to take any in barrels primarily because I have never done so. How do you get it from a barrel to the fuel ports?


I was told, maybe incorrectly, that it was no longer possible to get fuel at Paduccah. None-the-less, it is only 20ish miles beyond GTB so not much help there. From Green Turtle Bay to Alton Marina is ~275 miles. And this is why the current in mph is so important to me. If there was no current, which of course would mean the river was standing still, I could make it no problem. Actually, I could go slow and do about 500 miles. However, if the current is 5 mph I will only be able to make about 6 mph SOG if I want to have a range of about 325 miles. Less current, longer legs. More current, shorter legs. OK, fine, I go at 6 mph. This is assuming I use NO generator, which I am totally willing to do, of course, although those 3 or even 4 nights on the hook might be quite uncomfortable, but c'est la vie. This is also assuming I shut off my engines the moment I go into waiting mode at the locks and don't turn them back on until I am called to enter the locks.


If the average current is about 3.5 mph I could probably squeeze out about 360 or more miles, so a pretty safe margin, still without a generator, of course.


BandB, if you were just on the river I suppose the current was about 5 mph. I pray not more. Hopefully it will be slower by August 1st.


DOES ANYONE KNOW: Although there is no marina in St. Louis, is there somewhere to dock where I could rent a pickup truck, or pay someone to provide a pickup truck, and get to a gas station that had diesel? And, is there a problem with using "over the road" diesel instead of "marine diesel", or is it only a matter of taxes? Then, I could empty 50 gallons of fuel from my 5 gallon containers and get them refilled in St. Louis. I would also have a better feel for my remaining fuel at this point.


I spoke to the guy at Kidde's Fuel in Cape Girardeau. He provides marine diesel to tugs, barges, and the like. He said he doesn't "like" fueling recreational boats, but if absolutely necessary he would do so on a "whenever he had a chance, if any", but would require a days advance notice, which would be hard to provide.


Thanks...Grant (Medic)
 
Medic said:
Thank you to those who replied. BandB, thank you very much for the link to the thread regarding times waiting for, and then getting through, the locks. I checked it out and it was very helpful. I will definitely have it on my laptop when I start my journey.


I have been keeping track of Hoppies and I'm afraid they don't seem to be an option.


I will be carrying some extra diesel, likely in 5 gallon containers. I hesitate to take any in barrels primarily because I have never done so. How do you get it from a barrel to the fuel ports?


I was told, maybe incorrectly, that it was no longer possible to get fuel at Paduccah. None-the-less, it is only 20ish miles beyond GTB so not much help there. From Green Turtle Bay to Alton Marina is ~275 miles. And this is why the current in mph is so important to me. If there was no current, which of course would mean the river was standing still, I could make it no problem. Actually, I could go slow and do about 500 miles. However, if the current is 5 mph I will only be able to make about 6 mph SOG if I want to have a range of about 325 miles. Less current, longer legs. More current, shorter legs. OK, fine, I go at 6 mph. This is assuming I use NO generator, which I am totally willing to do, of course, although those 3 or even 4 nights on the hook might be quite uncomfortable, but c'est la vie. This is also assuming I shut off my engines the moment I go into waiting mode at the locks and don't turn them back on until I am called to enter the locks.


If the average current is about 3.5 mph I could probably squeeze out about 360 or more miles, so a pretty safe margin, still without a generator, of course.


BandB, if you were just on the river I suppose the current was about 5 mph. I pray not more. Hopefully it will be slower by August 1st.


DOES ANYONE KNOW: Although there is no marina in St. Louis, is there somewhere to dock where I could rent a pickup truck, or pay someone to provide a pickup truck, and get to a gas station that had diesel? And, is there a problem with using "over the road" diesel instead of "marine diesel", or is it only a matter of taxes? Then, I could empty 50 gallons of fuel from my 5 gallon containers and get them refilled in St. Louis. I would also have a better feel for my remaining fuel at this point.


I spoke to the guy at Kidde's Fuel in Cape Girardeau. He provides marine diesel to tugs, barges, and the like. He said he doesn't "like" fueling recreational boats, but if absolutely necessary he would do so on a "whenever he had a chance, if any", but would require a days advance notice, which would be hard to provide.


Thanks...Grant (Medic)
Click to expand...
Marine diesel is just over-the-road diesel with red dye added. The IRS used to do cooperative safety checks with the states wherein truckers' fuel tanks were checked for untaxed dyed diesel fuel. The penalty you ask? $25,000! And, the dye leaves detectable traces for a very long time.
 
Those I know typically use manual transfer pumps which are not very expensive. You can use electric but manual is typically fine for this purpose. There are also caddy's available for 25-30 gallons that come with transfer pumps. Many diesel suppliers as well as farm suppliers and places like Northern Tool and even Amazon and Walmart have the equipment you need. It sounds like one or, at most, two drums will alleviate your issues. Drums are used regularly for industrial applications and farm applications.

There are other options but not too dependable. One is Kidd's in Cape Girardeau, MO. They use to require 24 hour notice but I haven't heard about them in years and don't know if they still exist. I'd suggest a call, but I'd want to be sufficient without them. I strongly recommend drums.

You've got enough of a challenge going upstream without worrying about fuel. I'd want a substantial surplus of fuel on board. Typical practice is to use down to where you can fit a drum in your regular tank and then make a transfer so you empty the drum or drums as soon as possible.
 
You used to be able to arrange fuel at the Port of Evansville marina up the Kaskaskia River. Not sure if this is still an option but worth checking out. Last time through there was 2016.
 
Thanks people...I'm on my way to Fleet Farm the minute I finish this quick thank you reply. By the way, the Port of Evansville is apparently not a thing anymore. Bummer.
 
Medic said:
Thanks people...I'm on my way to Fleet Farm the minute I finish this quick thank you reply. By the way, the Port of Evansville is apparently not a thing anymore. Bummer.
Click to expand...

Not a thing? Does that mean no longer an operating port or no longer available for fueling?
 
Cannot Google Port of Evansville, nor see it on any maps. Nothing else in the area it was apparently in is a marina or fuel dock. Checked from Mississippi/Kaskaskia junction to way up the river.
 
Maybe I’m confused on the area. All I’m doing is staking Google maps. There is also a place called “Alton Marina” close to St. Louis as well.
 
Alton Marina is indeed my destination. Unfortunately it is about 275 miles from my departure point. St. Louis is a long haul also, but better than Alton. Again unfortunately, St Louis does not have ANY marinas, which is weird, and no place to dock. I could, if it became absolutely necessary, tie up against the seawall in St. Louis and find someway to get me and my fuel containers to some regular gas station that had diesel. That would then get me the last few miles to Alton. Oh, well...an adventure. I've been through the Panama Canal, down the St. Lawrence Seaway, offshore by more than 450 miles, so this should be fairly easy.:lol::banghead:
 
There are Marina's for St. Louis but they are up the Missouri in St. Charles, etc. Alton is closer for transients. Check with Alton and see if they are open and have fuel. It's going to be a long uphill slog from GTB with those fuel limitations. I'd be thinking more like 55 gallon barrels in that situation.
Hope everything goes well for you!
 
https://www.gatewayfs.com/Our-Locations

Looks like there is a boat ramp at Chester, IL. with a lot/pull off area big enough for a fuel truck to get into and close enough for the hose to reach a trawler. I'd contact this local Farm Supply co-op and see if they've ever fueled a boat on the Mississippi and can suggest a location if this spot doesn't work out.

Sidney
 
Medic said:
Alton Marina is indeed my destination. Unfortunately it is about 275 miles from my departure point. St. Louis is a long haul also, but better than Alton. Again unfortunately, St Louis does not have ANY marinas, which is weird, and no place to dock. I could, if it became absolutely necessary, tie up against the seawall in St. Louis and find someway to get me and my fuel containers to some regular gas station that had diesel. That would then get me the last few miles to Alton. Oh, well...an adventure. I've been through the Panama Canal, down the St. Lawrence Seaway, offshore by more than 450 miles, so this should be fairly easy.:lol::banghead:
Click to expand...

You thought through this well, but now you're overthinking. The solution is simple and that's barrels or drums. They fit well, they pump well. No reason to gamble on a seawall or ramp or anything for the last miles. Go fully equipped to go even further than needed.
 
BandB said:
You thought through this well, but now you're overthinking. The solution is simple and that's barrels or drums. They fit well, they pump well. No reason to gamble on a seawall or ramp or anything for the last miles. Go fully equipped to go even further than needed.
Click to expand...
You are right. I am going to get two 55 gallon containers and a transfer pump. Thank you. I WAS over thinking the situation. If we get halfway and I realize we are going to make it easily I will simply start using the A/C.
 
Did this trip last June 2018. But my Manatee has the range. We pot in about 100 gal in Alton. Pay close attention to true St. Louis gage. My go/no go was less than 15 feet at the gate with a forecast of less than 15. We cleared granite city Lock 27 as the gauge hit 16. Alton is just a little ways past the canal that bi pass the chains of rocks.

We saw current between 2.5 and 4 knots. Did our best to stay under the points and out of the main current when possible

Highly recommend an ais transceiver for the Ohio and Mississippi especially in the lower river below St. Louis.

Active captain has good suggestions for where to overnight on the river. I would not travel after dark.

You can pm me if you want more info

Paul
KK Manatee Oma
 
Just came from Stillwater, MN to St. Louis, arrived yesterday. The Barge traffic is fairly light North of Lock #24, North of there you should not encounter too many delays. Most of the flood water has calmed down, current between 2-3. USCG is saying recreational traffic not recommended but we did not see anything that would warrant us not to go.
If you make it to Alton that would be your best bet for fuel. Enjoy the trip, it is beautiful. If you would like some marina recommendations for the trip North of St. Louis let me know.
Have fun.
 
Medic said:
Any first hand (or second hand) info on the Upper Mississippi River situation? Interested in knowing the speed of the current, especially between Cairo, IL and Alton, IL. The run from Green Turtle Bay Marina, where my Meridian 469 (only one ever made) sits to Alton must basically be done on whatever fuel I have onboard from GTB. Amazing that you cannot get fuel in St. Louis, but that's the way it is. Fighting the current the whole way will make the run challenging for me from a fuel standpoint.


Also, I fully appreciate that the barges must get preferential treatment with regards to locking through, but I wonder if pleasure boats are getting ANY reasonable opportunities to use the locks. I understand waiting for an hour or two, or even five hours for a big barge to get through, but I'm wondering if each lock is taking half a day or even longer to get an opportunity to lock through. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Did this in 2012. GTB to Lake City Mn. 1,000 miles, 27 locks & almost no water in the river. GTB to HOPPIES south of St Louis is 200 miles. I have a Grand Banks 36, single engine, 420 gal of fuel on board. Did the trip in a little over 300 gal.
Heading north from Cairo expect 5mph current. We ran at a speed of 4+ miles per hour, up river, over the ground. Once past the locks at St Louis I’d depends on the outflow of every pool. We had flat water in ‘12 from Stl Louis to Lake City Mn. We burned about 2gph sometimes more less on flat water.
https ://YouTube.be/M2RDcTyY8XY should be a link to a you tube video of our trip.
 
When is your departure date? I have a trawler @ GTB and live in St Louis. I may be able to get fuel to you when you reach St Louis. Let me know.
 
I would go with the 55 gallon drums also. Just make sure you have the properly secured. I would through bolt the tie downs, don’t count on screws.
 
Have done several trips out of GTB and the first 70-80 miles of that trip are the worst. Tenn river is OK but the Ohio is one long barge parking lot. If the river is low, you will have to use the locks which are a b***h and there are very few decent/safe anchorages on this river.

There are no marinas on the Ohio or the "Sippy" rivers until Alton, unless Hoppies is open. These are, unfortunately, classed as "working rivers" and we pleasure boaters are not welcome. Many tow boat captains on the Sippy will not answer your hail.

There used to be a farm supply outfit at New Madrid, MO that would deliver fuel to the ramp in the harbor there if you buy at least 100 gal. The tricky part was that you had to anchor close to shore and use a dinghy to drag the fuel hose out to your boat and back.

The Port of Evansville (IL) Marina is/was on the Kaskaskia River just south of St. Louis.

As others have said, 55-gal drums and a 12v transfer pump are your best bet. In case you've never traveled the big rivers, to conserve fuel, you should try to stay on the inside of river bends when upbound. The current will be slower there and downbound tows prefer the faster water on the outside of the bends.

FWIW there are no locks on the Sippy south of Alton unless you cut through the Chain of Rocks Canal at St. Louis.
 
Well, I was about 9 days without access to the Forum due to login problems, now fixed. I got to GTB Marina, nice place, and my boat had been moved from a longer term storage slip to the transient docks per my request. The 2 55 gallon drums were waiting for me. I took the boat over to the fuel dock about 100 yards away and topped off the tanks, the drums, and 69 gallons in jugs and containers I had already purchased when BandB suggested I use the drums. That all went smoothly. UNFORTUNATELY, there might have been a lightning strike in the area of the longer term storage where my boat was and it had damaged both chargers, but that was not yet apparent. It DID become apparent the next day, August 1st, when we had black smoke coming out the ER exhaust port. It turned out to be simply the exhaust fan itself, not a big deal, except it brought attention to over voltage problems and ultimately the chargers. I have returned home because getting to those things is going to take a couple of weeks. My main instrument monitor was also fried and is being replaced. But when these issues are resolved I will be ready and the river should be better than it is now.


"Boating can make millionaires out of billionaires."


There were a few people I wanted to thank in addition to BandB but could not, and still cannot because of the issues with login problems.
 
Sorry about your trouble. Hope you can get it all working. Now you have to use all that extra fuel...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

O C Diver
2002 Cherubini Independence 45, Fort Myers, FL $350K
Replies
15
Views
3K
rslifkin
R
P
Lehamn 90HP S-pipe catastrophic failure and a great ending sea-story
Replies
2
Views
572
socalrider
socalrider
D
Stuck in Petersburg with bad lift pump....
Replies
28
Views
3K
DDW
D
D
Collision and demasting
10 11 12
Replies
351
Views
24K
Old Sea Dog
Old Sea Dog
Portage_Bay
Electric tug under design and to be built
2
Replies
43
Views
3K
Hippocampus
H

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom