autopilot recommendations

I have a twin engine 44 ft 40,000 lb Sun deck Cruiser. It has a single Helm on the flybridge I am looking for recommendation for an autopilot

Problem with recommendations is everyone will recommend what they have to affirm their selection.

All autopilot are similar with few variances in features.

I would start by prioritizing what functions on an autopilot will be useful to you. Then go to a boat show or find a marine electronics store that carry multiple brands and start your search there. Try the different control units for ease of use and functionality. Have the salesperson describe the features.

Understand that many electronics salespeople work on commission or some sort of incentive plan. They also will push items in stock for quick sale. Some manufacturers products may offer higher commission or be part of a sales promotion contest for the employees.

The size of your steering rams will determine the size of the autopilot pump. Make sure to buy a pump sized correctly. Stores might spec undersize pumps to reduce total purchase price. Especially to match competitors pricing.

After narrowing your autopilot choices to a few models, ask forum members with those units for recommendations.

If interfacing the autopilot with other electronics, getting an AP from the same manufacturer will ease set up.

Choosing an autopilot is an important decision. Compared with chartplotter, depthsounder and radar, an autopilot will be the most used instrument on the boat. Make sure button placement and function are easy to use.

Comnav.

Been very happy with Garmin, however all the instruments are Garmin too so it was a logical addition.

syjos said:

Problem with recommendations is everyone will recommend what they have to affirm their selection.

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I'm not going to recommend what I have as it's long out of production. That said, I like my Simrad / Robertson AP20 so much thst I've resisted upgrading it even though it's 17 years old.

Probably can't go wrong with a Garmin, Comnav, or Simrad.

Ted

O C Diver said:

I'm not going to recommend what I have as it's long out of production. That said, I like my Simrad / Robertson AP20 so much thst I've resisted upgrading it even though it's 17 years old.

Probably can't go wrong with a Garmin, Comnav, or Simrad.

Ted

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I have an older Simrad Robertson autopilot too. And, I also like my Robertson too much to upgrade. I've been picking up autopilot components on eBay for spares. So far everything has been working without issues.

I bought my autopilot when Robertson was located in Washington State.

I am only familiar with the tiller style autopilot. I imagine I need something with a hydraulic pump. Googling I only see kits that are not complete. So I'm asking being unfamiliar with autopilot components what all I need to make a functioning system does anybody offer an all-in-one component kit that has everything in one box?

One more recommendation to my original.

Pick a manufacturer that has excellent customer support. By humans, on the phone.

An autopilot is a complex installation with several components that require exacting installation and programming after install. And many installation manuals are difficult to understand requiring quick support from the manufacturer.

Many manufacturers pass the support responsibility to the distributor or dealer who are not equipped to provide that. Westerbeke and Victron Energy are two companies that provide no support other than their crowd sourced web support.

I'm sure there are others out there, but I've experienced the best customer support from Furuno, either on the phone on in person at Camas, Wa.

Whatever your local yard installs and supports. Support being the key word. Furuno, Garmin, Raymarine, Simrad are all competitive with each other and offer good products. They sell integrated solutions but local techs do the installations. If you already have a radar unit or chartplotter from one manufacturer then integrating an autopilot from that same manufacturer will probably be simpler. Having a certified local tech to debug inoperative systems has a lot more value than manufacturers claimed "feature" list.

Buy the one the commercial guys buy. Mostly Comnav...

motion30 said:

I am only familiar with the tiller style autopilot. I imagine I need something with a hydraulic pump. Googling I only see kits that are not complete. So I'm asking being unfamiliar with autopilot components what all I need to make a functioning system does anybody offer an all-in-one component kit that has everything in one box?

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I have been researching APs. If you have hydraulic steering, you have two choices. Hydraulic of course and they can be expensive, or mechanical. The mechanical unit uses a motor to drive a pulley that is attached to the wheel. Once that is solved, you can figure out if you want to tie into the electronics for full operation or have a stand-alone system that runs a heading you set until you switch it off or set a new heading.



Hydraulic inline set up. This is one of many ways to do it but seems to be the most robust.





The wheel pilot.

Be sure you get one that supports a JOG stick.

A lot of people use that exclusively, and never go back to a wheel.

fgarriso said:

Be sure you get one that supports a JOG stick.

A lot of people use that exclusively, and never go back to a wheel.

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Agreed, have a jog lever for my stern docking station. Also see what is offered for remotes. Personally I prefer hardwired. Seems that remotes and jog levers are an area where most manufacturers are offering less choices and technology really hasn't improved. Part of what keeps me from upgrading is less choice in these items compared to what I currently have.

Ted

syjos said:

Problem with recommendations is everyone will recommend what they have to affirm their selection...

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No. I'm not going to reaffirm what I have. If I were buying today, I'd be looking seriously at a Comnav 1001.

Jim

I have a discontinued Robertson but if buying today, I would get a Furuno 711C.

I sold one to a client in May and the customer support he got from Furuno was above and beyond their responsibility. Client is very happy with the new auto pilot in his 55' Sunship. He replaced a Robertson AP 20.

Xsbank said:

Buy the one the commercial guys buy. Mostly Comnav...

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FWIW Si-tex = Comnav or the other way around(can't remember) but Sitex stuff is good to go.

I use a Garmin Tr1(few generations old) that I bought parts used for around $500 so in that respect I recommend it.

I'd prefer a simple electric wheelpilot. Dialing the TR1 in isn't awesome and it has enough extras to make it kind of a pain.

Mrwesson said:

FWIW Si-tex = Comnav or the other way around(can't remember) but Sitex stuff is good to go.

I use a Garmin Tr1(few generations old) that I bought parts used for around $500 so in that respect I recommend it.

I'd prefer a simple electric wheelpilot. Dialing the TR1 in isn't awesome and it has enough extras to make it kind of a pain.

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I like the Simplicity of the electric Wheel pilot. who makes one I can handle a 44000lb. 44ft boat?

motion30 said:

I like the Simplicity of the electric Wheel pilot. who makes one I can handle a 44000lb. 44ft boat?

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"Delivers 86ft-lbs to the wheel." I believe that should cover it.


CPT Autopilot Inc.

ben2go said:

"Delivers 86ft-lbs to the wheel." I believe that should cover it.


CPT Autopilot Inc.

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Perfect

motion30 said:

I like the Simplicity of the electric Wheel pilot. who makes one I can handle a 44000lb. 44ft boat?

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I don't see how it is all that much simpler, all solutions require a motor of some kind, either to drive a pump or move a chain/cable. Maybe kind of simpler to install, but also less features.

We love having remote controls with long cords (no experience with wireless models, and we tend to lose stuff like that) , allows one to lean back in the helm chair or walk around a little and still steer the boat or adjust course.

the insulation doesn't deal with hydraulic hoses and bleeding the system

motion30 said:

the insulation doesn't deal with hydraulic hoses and bleeding the system

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I understand you meant installation, but from my own experience, that's just not a big deal at all. And it's a one and done for many years to come, if ever, depending on usage. It's also out of the way from getting kicked and bumped into. Obviously there are enough folks out there who like the solution enough for the manufacturer to make a business out of it, so to each their own. But there are reasons one format is overwhelmingly favored over another.

I just installed a Ray Marine wheel pilot on a 34-foot sailboat. I installed a SITEX unit on my trawler which had cable steering buy using the old electric motor which had driven the original Benmar AP. I currently have hydrauic steering with a Furuno AP. Before Hurricane Michael sank the boat, I had all the parts and was about to do the install for a Garmin AP install on a hydraulic steering system in a trawler.

Don't put a wheel drive on that nice boat of yours. You will see more return on your dollar at resale with a "proper" and robust hydraulic install. The reason the APs don't come as a complete kit is that the steering system on your boat is an unknown the the makers. Their electronic will work on pretty much any boat, but boat size determines which pump, or in the case of cable steer, which motor they recommend.

If you are relatively handy, you can do this, but if not ready to DIY, get some help.

First step in the autopilot process is getting YOUR steering system figured out.

On a 44’ sundeck you are Probably going to have a Hyunatic or some variation of manually operated hydraulic steering system.

If that is the case...

Look at your steering ram size. All boats are different but you HAVE to get an idea of your ram size in order to pick a hydraulic pump. Don’t worry about getting it exact... a ballpark will do. The idea here is that you want a pump that is designed for a range or ram sizes that your ram happens to fit into. The reason is simple. Too large of a pump and your rudder moves too fast and heading changes are abrupt. Too small and it takes too long to make heading changes.

The pump installation is literally teeing into three hydraulic lines These are your starboard, Port, and return. Easy peasy.

Accusteer makes the hydraulic pumps for several of the autopilot brands. The pump DOES NOT need to be specific to your autpoilot. It is simply as 12 volt reversible pump. Apply one polarity of 12 volts and the pump pushes the ram in one direction, apply the other polarity and the pump pushes the ram in the opposite direction.

After you have your pump in place then it’s time to choose a brand of autopilot computer you like the features of.

The components of that will be

A. Computer (the brains)
B. Rudder feed back unit (how the computer knows rudder position)
C. heading sensor (this can be stand alone or on many brands you can use the heading sensor from your nav system)
D. Human interfaces.

Regarding interfacing your autopilot to your chart plotter or Navigation system...

Autopilots are a stand alone system. They do not need to interface to your chart plotter. You set the autopilot to a heading and it maintains that heading.

The only benefit that I can think of in interfacing your autopilot to your chart plotter is route following. You can program a route into your chart plotter and the autopilot can follow that route, including turns.

I have personally not found that feature all that great in the open ocean. The reason is that the autopilot computer uses a value called Cross Track Error to determine steering, along with a value called Course To Steer. This sounds great but in application is is not as great as you might think, in the open ocean.

What happens is that the autopilot computer sets your initial heading based on the Course To Steer value. Then as you go off course due to wind, waves, currents, the Cross Track Error which is your distance from your intended route gets larger. Once that number reaches a programmable threshold the autopilot initiates a heading correction to bring you back to your intended route. This heading correction can put you in a position where your open ocean waves can be uncomfortable, perhaps on the beam a bit more than you like.

That is why in the open ocean I pretty much always set a heading that works for the situation, and I manually change that heading using my remotes +-10 or +-1 degree buttons.

Anyway, long post. Hope this helps demystify the autopilot

A good explanation by Kevin. I have a Comnav AP that is linked to my Furuno chartplotter. Contrary to Kevin's ocean application, I use my pilot to steer to chartplotter waypoints to take advantage of the cross-track error adjustment. This is particularly useful in legs of over, say, 10 miles with current or wind affecting the track of the boat.

Ken E. said:

A good explanation by Kevin. I have a Comnav AP that is linked to my Furuno chartplotter. Contrary to Kevin's ocean application, I use my pilot to steer to chartplotter waypoints to take advantage of the cross-track error adjustment. This is particularly useful in legs of over, say, 10 miles with current or wind affecting the track of the boat.

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Thanks Ken!

In protected waters I find the route following feature to be useful as well.

The Ray Marine wheel drive I installed for my friend will not talk to the Garmin plotter he has, no matter how many special cables we bought or settings we made. So be sure your devices both use the same communication protocol like NMEA 200 for instance if you want them to talk. However, as previously stated, it's not all that important. My current integrated system (sounder/compass/AIS/radar/plotter/AP) is Furuno, is old, and works like a champ, but my trawler had Garmin plotter/radar, Sitex AP, some off brand AIS receiver, (sounder was independent by design) and it all talked to each other too.

We just did a full electronics refit and went with Garmin for chartplotters, radar and hydraulic autopilot on a Monk 36. No regrets.

Intuitive and seamless operation including ability to just grab the wheel to dodge lobster pots without needing to put autopilot on standby. Garmin calls it Shadow Drive.