Stabilizers?

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rjm911

Member
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
13
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Sea Glass
Vessel Make
DeFever 49 CPMY
We are looking at a 44 DeFever to do the Great Loop, cruise to Bahamas, and do the Down East Loop (up and around Nova Scotia). It does not have stabilizers. For protected waters, I'd suspect stabilizers would not be beneficial.

However, would they be beneficial in the waters around Nova Scotia and Bahamas?

We do realize the subjectivity of the question and welcome your opinions.
 
We are looking at a 44 DeFever to do the Great Loop, cruise to Bahamas, and do the Down East Loop (up and around Nova Scotia). It does not have stabilizers. For protected waters, I'd suspect stabilizers would not be beneficial.

However, would they be beneficial in the waters around Nova Scotia and Bahamas?

We do realize the subjectivity of the question and welcome your opinions.
Had friend with a Defever 44 without stabilizers when he left NC in the fall for Bahamas. He had stabilizers when he returned the next summer.

Think the need for them depends on how easily you get seasick.
 
Went to Bahamas and back from Ft Lauderdale on our 53 Hatteras MY with the Niaids in off/locked position, trip was enjoyable because the Gulf Stream sea conditions were less than 3' at 15 sec. Moved the boat to PNW Vancouver BC then down coast to SF, got beat up on beam seas all the way with Niaids on. Boat was fine, passengers not so much; 1 seasoned mate had to be let off in Tillamock OR. Would not want to do it again in those conditions, and esp with out some form of stabilizers. On our 68' Defever we added passive rolling bilge keels to minimize the discomfort, not as effective as the active type, but no maintenance issues. Bottom line I would look for a boat with stabilizers, or expect to spend $50k adding them later, esp on a full displacement Defever.
 
Ray,
I totally agree with you active stabilizers do a good job when working.
They are high maintenance items, and have a very high failure rate when you need them the most.
A very close friend has active stabilizers and has a lot of trouble with them. I agree with the above statement.:blush:
 
Kiss
 

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Having stabilization was one of the best things I had done on the boat. Definitely worth the money IMO. But, that was a new build so the install was much easier for the yard. Retrofits can be tricky and $ depending on various factors.
 
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I have pondered this question more than a time or two. I think the answer might be Hull specific and/or operator specific.
My experience level s thin compared to many here but I have not yet found myself in conditions where I wished I had them on my hulls.
This past weekend we exited Victoria Harbor into the Strait of Juan DeFuca and then crossed Haro to get into Cattle Pass. Moderate conditions for sure with 15-20 knots SW in the Strait quartered to the port stern. Not much for swell but 2-3 ft wind waves on top of what little swell there was and a bit of a confused state where the two straits meet.
Between this ballasted hull, the bilge keels, and the AP70, it was just the sweetest motion you could ask for and I would have missed it had it been stabilized out. It was just that nice sort of thing like riding a good trail horse that tells you life is good.
My wife is a bit prone to the leeward rail and spent some time there on the motor sailer we were on for the GreatBarrier Reef cruise under similar conditions. No such urge on this hull on this trip anyway.
I think I am good without stabilizers for now.
 
The six or so times transiting to/from Victoria Island Harbor during the summer, the seas were always calm. On Alaska trips during summer, the most boisterous seas were outside central and northern California. SC and SE Alaskan waters were relatively calm.
 
I actually have stabilizers. You can blast by me with your sportfish boat and wake the hell out of me, I don’t care, the stabilizers will make your wake almost unnoticeable. Sure, lots of calm water here in the PNW and lots of big wakes. Can’t remember the last time I used them in Juan de Fuca for a beam sea but used the hell out of them on the 4th of July. Maintenance, an oil change once in a while and new seals every 10 years. Sure, that’s more than a non stabilized boat but the non stabilized boats never tell you about all the money they spend replacing things that flew off the counter when they got waked by that inconsiderate SF boat.

Are they expensive? Yes! Are they worth the money? That depends on what you can afford. Are they impressive? Yes!
 
There are many brands of stabilizers. I have Naiad model 252. I have heard of very few issues from Naiad users. Occasionally you will hear about a stabilizer locking up in full dive mode. This is usually do to a failed seal, usually a twenty year old seal. Getting a stabilizer unstuck and back to neutral can be a challenge, most don’t try. They limp into port and let the professionals deal with it. If you buy a boat with stabilizers and you don’t know when the seals were last replaced then you should assume the worst and get it back on the 10 year schedule.
 
I have never had stabilizers but I am wondering what a typical 10 year maintenance costs on them. Any general idea?
 
Should be $1500 for new seals. If the seals were breached by saltwater then i’m Guessing $5,000 but that’s a guess.
 
I've owned and cruised a boat extensively up and down the eastern seaboard, a Hatteras 56MY stabilized with Naiad 252's. I know and have known many other boaters with Naiad systems and a few Wesmars and ABTs and Vospers. These systems are fairly simple and like any other boat system, need preventive maintenance and replacement of aged parts parts on some schedule. They also need to be operated properly. In addition to having the seals changed out (I preferred a 5 year schedule due to the heavy use) for about $1000 by an experience tech (it can be a DIY job by borrowing the right tool), I replaced a couple of solenoids myself at about $50 per. Other owners reported similar. I consider them a very low cost system to maintain and own. If you never maintain them, then yes, the consequences can be costly. We loved having them as they expand the number of days you can cruise comfortably, which as another poster aptly noted, is a personal judgement as to what "comfortably" means. Not to say that you can't cruise some days less comfortably without stabilizers, but we are pleasure boaters, in that order.

That being said, I've also done a lot of very fun cruising in non-stabilized "trawler style" boats in the 40-50 foot range such as Grand Banks, Mainship and, on a good deal of the eastern half of the Down East Loop, a Hatteras 42LRC. You pick the wheres and whens you cruise a little more carefully,that's all.
 
What percentage of boats have them?
 
I've owned and cruised a boat extensively up and down the eastern seaboard, a Hatteras 56MY stabilized with Naiad 252's. I know and have known many other boaters with Naiad systems and a few Wesmars and ABTs and Vospers. These systems are fairly simple and like any other boat system, need preventive maintenance and replacement of aged parts parts on some schedule. They also need to be operated properly. In addition to having the seals changed out (I preferred a 5 year schedule due to the heavy use) for about $1000 by an experience tech (it can be a DIY job by borrowing the right tool), I replaced a couple of solenoids myself at about $50 per. Other owners reported similar. I consider them a very low cost system to maintain and own. If you never maintain them, then yes, the consequences can be costly. We loved having them as they expand the number of days you can cruise comfortably, which as another poster aptly noted, is a personal judgement as to what "comfortably" means. Not to say that you can't cruise some days less comfortably without stabilizers, but we are pleasure boaters, in that order.

That being said, I've also done a lot of very fun cruising in non-stabilized "trawler style" boats in the 40-50 foot range such as Grand Banks, Mainship and, on a good deal of the eastern half of the Down East Loop, a Hatteras 42LRC. You pick the wheres and whens you cruise a little more carefully,that's all.

This is good advice.

The Defever 44 is a great cruising boat. The same “modified displacement” hull form that makes it economical and seaworthy to operate allows it roll in a beam sea—but not as much as some “full displacement” boats I’ve been on.

Switching on our Naiads when we’re taking lively seas on the beam instantly results in a major reduction in roll and a major increase in comfort. Replacing the seals is about a $1K job every few years and, as George says, it can be DIY with the right tool. Stabilizers have been retrofitted to many Defever 44s—Craig at Stabilized Marine is very familiar with handling the job and there’s ample room in the 44’s engine room for the components.

As for when you need them, it’s not the nice weather you choose to go out in that makes them worthwhile. It’s when that nice forecast blows up while you’re half-way across Lake Michigan that you’ll really appreciate them.

Ours have been very reliable. I’m familiar with Naiads and they make excellent equipment. I’m sure other brands are, as well. Ours have never failed—even when the primary cylinders needed rebuilding after many years of use. And if they did ever break down, they wouldn’t leave us stranded like, say for instance, having a single engine might :rolleyes:; you just wouldn’t have stabilizers for awhile.

Finally, as for keeping things simple and avoiding complexity, we all surrendered that notion when we stopped paddling dugout canoes. :D.
 
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On our 68' Defever we added passive rolling bilge keels to minimize the discomfort, not as effective as the active type, but no maintenance issues. .

This type of thing?
 

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I love stabilizers and wouldn't be without them. And if sized and installed correctly, they are very low maintenance, and extremely reliable.


A lot of people cite the Nordhavn Atlantic rally and the multitude of stabilizer failures on that trip. Keep in mind that that was 15 years ago, and stabilizers in boats like that were pretty new at the time.


From what I've seen, being on the 3rd stabilized boat of my own, and knowing dozens of people with stabilized Nordhavns and other brands, you only have trouble if the system isn't sized properly, and a number of early installations seemed to be undersized in a few possible ways. Most issues seem to be in the hydraulic power/drive system. Direct PTO mounted pumps are best. Belt driven systems seem problematic with belt wear, and under powering of the hydraulics. Cooling can be similarly undersized and lead to problems. But these are simply not an issue on a modern installation. The only maintenance is replacing the shaft seals every 6 years at haul out, and it's not a complicated job.



My personal experience is with ABT, and I think they are one of the best engineered systems I have encountered on boats, and their support is second to none.


In many ways I think the biggest issue with adding stabilizers relates to the overall value of the boat. Stabilizers aren't cheap, but they add to the value of a boat. But there is a diminishing return as the overall value of the boat is lower. Investing $50k (just an example figure) to add stabilizers to a $500k boat will probably create something close to a $550K boat. But adding them to a $50k boat isn't going to create a $100k boat.
 
Ray,
I totally agree with you active stabilizers do a good job when working.
They are high maintenance items, and have a very high failure rate when you need them the most.


I wonder if some of the newer gyro stabilizers are worth comparing for efficacy, initial cost, and failure rate/maintenance costs...

-Chris
 
I still see stabilisers as trying to rectify a inherent design flaw on a boat.
For the amount of coin people spend on big* monos and then fit stabilizers, why not just buy a cat and be done with it?

*Boats above 60ft.
 
If you have an unstabilized boat and decide to go to the Bahamas, you can surely make it work. Just pick and choose your weather carefully. We have met many couples on unstabilized boats in the Bahamas and most wish they had them.
But if you are buying a boat, and you intend to go to cruise in the Bahamas, it is a mistake to buy a boat without stabilizers when so many stabilized boats are available on the market.
 
We are looking at a 44 DeFever to do the Great Loop, cruise to Bahamas, and do the Down East Loop (up and around Nova Scotia). It does not have stabilizers. For protected waters, I'd suspect stabilizers would not be beneficial.

However, would they be beneficial in the waters around Nova Scotia and Bahamas?

We do realize the subjectivity of the question and welcome your opinions.

Find a boat with stabilizers then. It's better than regretting your decision next year.
 
This is our first boat with Stab. When I was researching the different types, PM, costs, etc., I read a comment that has stuck in my head: “I never met anyone with stabilizers, who wished they didn’t have them”. There are a lot of variables to consider which others have covered. It has definitely been a worthwhile investment for what we are doing.
 
We are on our first boat with stabilizers, and only have about 450 hours experience with them in 18 months. We are very pleased that we chose a boat with active fins (we have paravanes also), and we have had minimal issues.

Ours were manufactured by ABT TRAC, and they provided support that was truly exceptional (and immediate) both times we had problems. One issue was a transmission shift sensor “pigtail” failure, likely caused by a technician striking it in the engine room. The other was a bad part, which caused a low pressure alarm but was not disabling. The part was easy to change. I was told that that part was one that rarely failed, and was told that carrying a spare would be overly cautious.

ABT TRAC provides no cost training for owners/operators in CA. They truly want the user to understand the system and maintain it properly so there are no problems. The engineering and quality control of their components is amazing.

If we had to switch boats, I would be seeking one with ABT TRAC stabilizers. I have no recent experience with the other brands, but I would assume they have not been resting in their respective systems advancement, either. I worked on many boats with Naiads and I recall only one problem (broken hydraulic hose leading to ER fire).

As with any system of this type, you should have an experienced technician for the stabilizer manufacturer inspect the system on the vessel you decide to purchase. An hour of labor while in the pre-purchase stage WILL be money well spent. You don’t want costly surprises because of deferred maintenance.

Good Luck
 
This type of thing?

Those particular ones look very draggy. Why all the little braces down the side?

I've put on bilge keels, so far it seems like a very worthwhile addition at a very small fraction of the cost of active and zero maintenance.
 
If you're considering retro fitting active fin stabilizers, I can recommend Keypower, owned by Kobelt, a highly regarded Canadian manufacturer of commercial hydraulic steering and power systems. Keypower active fins use dual piston actuators, reducing the work they do by 50%, the fins are made from a polyurethane material producing near neutral buoyancy in the water and connect to the actuators with a keyless tampered shaft (super easy to remove and remount), and like everyone else, the fins are controlled by a digital gyro control box that gets mounted tighter up in the pilothouse (for early motion detection). I bought mine direct from Kobelt for a significant discount from what other stabilizer makers had quoted me. So far, no problems.
 

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