Smoke in the ER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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FlyWright

FlyWright

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Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
13,731
Location
California Delta
Vessel Name
FlyWright
Vessel Make
1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Part One:

Smoke in the Engine Room!!!

(It sure got my attention, too!)

I'm out on the California Delta documenting in photo and video 25 bridges in 25 days. I had just finished bridge #12, was cruising along the South Fork of the Mokelumne River about 20 minutes from my destination anchorage, the Secret Cove. I was listening to some classic rock on the stereo when I heard a distant rhythmic beeping that I couldn't identify. Stereo off...beeping continues...look up at the TV ER camera display and I see the ER is filled with thick SMOKE!!!

Engines shut down, anchor dropped, all electrical off, grab the fire extinguisher and flashlight, open the hatches (gray smoke billows out with an acrid, electrical/rubber smell. Into the ER I go with the smoke alarm waling and the smoke just starting to clear. No flames, no unusual hot appearances, smoke alarm quits as the smoke continues to clear.

Back to the helm to check that the anchor set in its rapid deployment...it did just fine! I grab my laser thermometer and return to the ER to find the source. First stop was the high output 120A Balmar alternator on the starboard engine. As I approach it, I feel the heat radiating from its general area on my right cheek. Shoot it with the thermometer and it reads over 350* F. The port alternator checks in at 160*F. I found my culprit!

The bearings on the Balmar alternator apparently failed and the unit was overheating from the friction. once I caught my breath, I limped into the Secret Cove on one engine. When I started the stbd engine to help me back up straight while setting the anchor, the belt squeal was incredible!! In the 30 minutes of cool down, the alternator had fully seized up and when I restarted the engine, the belt just slipped on the seized alternator pulley. The smoke alarm started waling again! Engines shut down for the night.

I had planned to return to my home marina by the 9th expecting to return in late July/early Aug to pick up where I left off and attend the Taste of the Delta at Village West Marina. Now I sit in Secret Cove near Tower Park Marina pondering my next move.

1. Stay here and fix it, then go home for the 3 week scheduled break

2. Move elsewhere nearby and fix it then go home for 3 weeks

3. Drive the boat home on one engine and fix it.

Being a holiday weekend, finding a marine source for the alternator might be difficult. If I can find a replacement alternator locally, it could be a simple fix and I could go home on two engines. (There will be no single-engine bridge visits.)

All I need is a non-operating small-frame alternator with a Perkins foot to serve as a pulley tensioner for the accessory belt that also turns the engine's cooling water pump. I have enough electrical power available from my port alternator and my onboard generator.

Standby for updates...
 
Part Deux:

Found a replacement alternator from Napa Auto Parts in Sacramento....about an hour away by car. A TF friend, Ed Alagozian, has graciously offered to pick up the new alternator and belt and deliver them to me at a nearby marina. He's on his way with the parts in hand now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And in the end.....

The part fit and we had both her Perkins purring by noon! Tossed Ed, Lindsay and their son Jaden the keys to the water sled and they caroused the area while I installed the new part. Then we had a great lunch at Tower Park Waterfront Grill.

Thanks to Ed Alagozian of www.TrawlerForum.com and the @DeltaBridges friends in supporting my rebound from yesterday's near disaster. What a difference a good night's sleep and a new day can make!!

Thanks, God. You're the greatest!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Epilogue:

The next morning, after servicing the engines for the 7 hr run back to my home marina in Vallejo, CA, I decided to connect the one-wire alternator and leave off all external regulator harness connections. It works like a champ putting out ~40A but without the alternator wire so I have no stbd tach for the time being. No biggie...

When I get home, I'll have the alternator shop look at the seized Balmar to see if it can be repaired. I'll also have this new alternator modified with the alternator wire so it'll become my onboard spare for the next time I need one.
 
Glad to hear it wasn't something worse, and that you found a fix quickly!
 
Nice comeback!
And you didn’t even have to hit a runway on a windy day with one engine down.....
 
That was a good adventure Al. Thanks for the story.
 
Yet another save, and maybe a lesson learned! Thanks for the post Al.
 
How many engine hours do you have on the Balmar?

Ted
 
WOW! glad it worked out OK!

I just lost a 150A Balmar alternator due to brushes wearing out at about 2,000 hours.

Now I am glad I bit the bullet and bought a new unit, plus had the old one rebuilt as a spare.

When we think of alternators, we tend to think of electrical, but your bearing failure was a eye opener to the important belt routing function the alternator also provides.
 
Good to read it sorted out nice and calm without big issue!

L
 
I'm not a fan of Balmar alternators. While they may have a nice coating to protect them from a moist engine room, don't think the quality is any better than an automotive alternator. IMO, a commercial grade, large frame truck alternator is a far superior product, especially if you're using an external multistage regulator. They have larger bearings, better cooling, and are designed to handle rated output at low RPM continuously. Unfortunately, they aren't a simple swap for the more compact frame alternators found on most diesel engines.

Ted
 
Are you sure the problem was a bearing?? My experience with failed bearings is first the squeal loudly followed usually with belt breakage when they lockup..

Now to Balmar or for that matter any alternator. Cooling is a real problem for performance. In vehicles there is a constant air flow while moving and a fan when not. Don’t believe standard alternator ratings such a 100 amperes unit for example. Sure they maybe can output 100A but they are not designed for constant output. Back to the Balmar. I often in the past wondered about their reliability. All armatures that I am aware of use copper wire in their armatures which has a positive temperature coefficient. This means when hot the wire resistance increases over that measured when cool and this increases the power (watts) dissipation which means it then even dissipates even greater wire resistance and internal power dissipation causing the wire to get even hotter. Alternators can have thermal run away if things get too hot.
 
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Flywright
As best I remember your switch to the Balmer required a sepentine belt drive setup. Belt tension can be tricky to set up on serpentine drive systems, often leading to bearing issues. Assuming you have the serpentine setup, what is the protocol you used for establishing the proper tension?
 
ksanders said:
When we think of alternators, we tend to think of electrical, but your bearing failure was a eye opener to the important belt routing function the alternator also provides.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if you're using serpentine belts? That's on my Wish List.

Edit: Never mind. just saw the previous post.
 
Scary and exciting story! The failure point of not having a quick alternator substitute is enlightening. I kept regular v belts and kept to < 100 amps per alternator. What I don't carry, but plan to, is one of the v belts you can put together piece by piece to match pretty much any length. Makes for good spares and can go anywhere. In your case, you should figure out the length of belt that would work without the alternator in place and carry that. I can and have survived with one alternator not functioning (due to voltage reg), but did not have to worry about the pully problem.
 
stubones99 said:
Ted,
Would you rate Leece / Neville higher or lower than Balmar?
Click to expand...
Leece Neville large frame commercial alternators are far superior to Balmar. They were designed for commercial applications such as firetrucks and ambulances sitting with their engines running and all sorts of equipment running. Designed to run full output at low RPM with no other airflow other than the alternator fan, for hours. They make 12 volt alternators up to 700 amps! Same mount and fan as my 230 amp alternator, just longer. They don't give them away, think mine was around $500.

Ted
 
O C Diver said:
How many engine hours do you have on the Balmar?
Click to expand...

Good question Ted so I looked it up. It's been 5 years and 900 hrs since I installed it. It was a lightly used unit I bought from a blow boat friend after it wouldn't fit on his replacement Beta engine.



Sailor of Fortune said:
Action,adventure and romance on the high seas Al!... Glad it all worked out
Click to expand...

Somehow I missed out on the romance on this trip...

sunchaser said:
Flywright
As best I remember your switch to the Balmer required a sepentine belt drive setup. Belt tension can be tricky to set up on serpentine drive systems, often leading to bearing issues. Assuming you have the serpentine setup, what is the protocol you used for establishing the proper tension?
Click to expand...

I run my 120A alternator at 100A bc I have a 1/2 inch belt. No tension issues, no belt wear or dust.

I learned a few lessons that I thought I might pass along.

1. My cheap $5 home smoke alarm installed in the ER called my attention to the smoke early in the process.

2. My nearly free repurposed cameras in the ER confirmed the smoke event early without the need to enter the ER.

3. If I had not installed these 2 items, it's very possible that I would not have detected this problem before more damage occurred.

4. If I had been driving from my FB out of earshot of the smoke alarm and out of sight of the ER camera monitor, neither of those improvements would have mattered.

5. I was in a narrow 12 ft deep channel surrounded by 3-5 ft water with thick weeds in 15 kt winds. The IMMEDIATE deployment of the anchor was critical to maintaining control of the boat. If I had to run to the bow to deploy, that delay could have been costly. I normally run without a tether on my anchor that allows one-finger deployment and retrieval.

6. Without a spare alternator, if I had a single engine boat, I would have had to have my boat towed to safely following the failure of a little alternator bearing!

7. Knowing now the critical role the alternator plays in maintaining my belt tension, I will never again be caught without a spare alternator on a long trip.
 
Last edited:
O C Diver said:
Leece Neville large frame commercial alternators are far superior to Balmar. They were designed for commercial applications such as firetrucks and ambulances sitting with their engines running and all sorts of equipment running. Designed to run full output at low RPM with no other airflow other than the alternator fan, for hours. They make 12 volt alternators up to 700 amps! Same mount and fan as my 230 amp alternator, just longer. They don't give them away, think mine was around $500.

Ted
Click to expand...


https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4516
 
O C Diver said:
Not the same model alternator. Those would be small frame as they would have to fit in the standard location on a Cummins, Cat, or whatever engine they're running. The ones I'm referring to are probably twice the cubic inch size of a standard alternator. Like comparing a grapefruit to a cantaloupe.

Ted
Click to expand...

I really don't know anything about Leece Neville alternators or for that matter the company. You mentioned ''standard locations'' so how do the heavier duty alternators fit into Cummings, Cat or whatever as found in vehicles? Ted, I am not trying to be picky........ Maybe a better question is how would they replace a Balmar found in a boat's engine compartment? I do want to also say that I am not a fan of large alternators operating in a confined area but that is just for my usage.
 
As I look back in hindsight on this event, I see there were warning signs that I had mistaken for a failing external regulator.

Over the past few weeks, I've been seeing the Balmar charge decreasing as the engine warmed up. After an hour, it was down to just a trickle charge but the voltage was in tolerance and the tach continued to operate. Since I was out on my @DeltaBridges trip, I figured I'd just run the generator to make up the electron difference. Since this alternator also has internal regulation available with the connection of a single switched wire, I planned to covert it to internal regulation when I returned home to bypass the 'failing' external regulator. The generator happily carried the load and I hummed along down the river merrily....and naively.

Apparently, what was actually happening was that the bearing was beginning to fail and was causing the alternator to warm up. As the alternator warmed, the regulator did its thing by sensing the increasing temp and regulating the output to keep the temps in limits. As the temp continued to rise, the amps continued to decrease. If I had shot the alternator a week ago with my laser thermometer, I probably would have spotted the failing bearing.

Since I have temp sensing on that alternator, I now wish I had a helm temp indicator to monitor underway. I wonder if there's a way to tap into the temp feed from the Balmar to display the temp at the helm. Maybe a stand-alone, wired temp sensor/display would be easier and just as effective.
 
FlyWright said:
2. My nearly free repurposed cameras in the ER confirmed the smoke event early without the need to enter the ER. I always wondered if smoke was easily seen on an ER camera. I wonder why more skippers don't install them! They are not that expensive considering the situational awareness they provide.
Click to expand...
 

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No back up alt, FlyWright?


tenor.gif
 
foggysail said:
I really don't know anything about Leece Neville alternators or for that matter the company. You mentioned ''standard locations'' so how do the heavier duty alternators fit into Cummings, Cat or whatever as found in vehicles? Ted, I am not trying to be picky........ Maybe a better question is how would they replace a Balmar found in a boat's engine compartment? I do want to also say that I am not a fan of large alternators operating in a confined area but that is just for my usage.
Click to expand...
On a boat, some people (such as myself) have dual alternators. Leave the original in place for only engine battery charging, and add a second dedicated to charging the house bank.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Dual Alternators on Single Engine

Ok, I'll bite, what is your reservation large alternators in confined areas? Conceptually it's about the same as running a small generator.

Ted
 
O C Diver said:
On a boat, some people (such as myself) have dual alternators. Leave the original in place for only engine battery charging, and add a second dedicated to charging the house bank.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Dual Alternators on Single Engine

Ok, I'll bite, what is your reservation large alternators in confined areas? Conceptually it's about the same as running a small generator.

Ted
Click to expand...



NOt a problem! First, I have no desire to run a Crusader or a pair of Crusader 454's to charge my batteries. Next has to do with using a physically large alternator/s required to produce large a output current in a confined bilge for hours without self destructing due to copper's positive temperature coefficient. And of course we do have an old Kohler 4.5KW generator that I have managed to ready on demand..........it gets very little use.

And best of all, I have about 1200 watts (4 each 290 watt) solar panels that for the last year or so when I installed them successfully keep my 860 amp hr battery bank charged. Charged even with our 8.3cuft refrigerator featuring self defrost, two tv's and what nots consuming power at leisure.

Soooo----IF one has space for solar, I suggest they consider it over an alternator of any kind. :)
 
O C Diver said:
On a boat, some people (such as myself) have dual alternators. Leave the original in place for only engine battery charging, and add a second dedicated to charging the house bank.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Dual Alternators on Single Engine

Ok, I'll bite, what is your reservation large alternators in confined areas? Conceptually it's about the same as running a small generator.

Ted
Click to expand...




I remember that post. That is a nice neat install. I plan a spare alt plus a kit to rebuild the alt myself, provided the bearings aren't seized in the case halves. 38hp diesel can't support two alts while running the boat. Well, not efficiently.
 
ben2go said:
No back up alt, FlyWright?
Click to expand...

I have twins so I always considered my port alternator as the spare and the generator as another source of electrons. Abut 3 months ago I tossed a dead altenator that I had been storing at home. :facepalm: :banghead: :facepalm: :banghead: :blush:

Now I'll start carrying a true spare alternator in dry storage aboard.

foggysail said:
NOt a problem! First, I have no desire to run a Crusader or a pair of Crusader 454's to charge my batteries. Next has to do with using a physically large alternator/s required to produce large a output current in a confined bilge for hours without self destructing due to copper's positive temperature coefficient. And of course we do have an old Kohler 4.5KW generator that I have managed to ready on demand..........it gets very little use.

And best of all, I have about 1200 watts (4 each 290 watt) solar panels that for the last year or so when I installed them successfully keep my 860 amp hr battery bank charged. Charged even with our 8.3cuft refrigerator featuring self defrost, two tv's and what nots consuming power at leisure.

Soooo----IF one has space for solar, I suggest they consider it over an alternator of any kind. :)
Click to expand...

Foggysail, it seems you're looking at this only from your perspective on your gasser boat. Ted's boat has an enormous ER (by my standards) and heat buildup is not an issue. Also, he's got a strong, new and efficient diesel (John Deere???) to power everything.

Let's avoid the solar discussion here since it's not relevant to the thread. This one's about alternators. Maybe start a new one for that conversation?
 
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