Spring Starter + Yanmar 4JH2

Hi there,

So...I've tipped pretty seriously into rationalizing the purchase of a spring starter for our boat and having just one bank of batteries for house needs.

When starting the engine, it would just be a matter of turning the ignition key to the "ON" position, then tripping the spring starter, right? (There would be no need to turn the key to "START" because that wire wouldn't be connected to the starter). Once the spring starter starts the engine, wouldn't it be situation normal?

Could it be that simple?

Should be that simple. The older JH had a solenoid that energized to stop the engine, if you spin it it should start.

Ski in NC said:

Should be that simple. The older JH had a solenoid that energized to stop the engine, if you spin it it should start.

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Cool. Thanks

Yup. Key on and turn motor with spring.

So, you are installing an expensive (presumably) mechanical device to avoid installing a $100 battery and a $65 combiner. Then instead of hitting a switch you have to open the engine compartment, wind up a spring and let it go. If you have to bleed the fuel system by cracking the injectors and rotating the engine if you run out, what do you do?


Doesn't make sense to me.


David

djmarchand said:

So, you are installing an expensive (presumably) mechanical device to avoid installing a $100 battery and a $65 combiner. Then instead of hitting a switch you have to open the engine compartment, wind up a spring and let it go. If you have to bleed the fuel system by cracking the injectors and rotating the engine if you run out, what do you do?


Doesn't make sense to me.


David

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He would (could) use the house battery for everything, the spring starter would serve as his back up should the house battery be depleted somehow. Using a single battery bank would simplify the charging system, lower maintenance costs and free up space in the engine room. It may not be everyone's ideal set up but it would work fine.

Gdavid said:

He would (could) use the house battery for everything, the spring starter would serve as his back up should the house battery be depleted somehow. Using a single battery bank would simplify the charging system, lower maintenance costs and free up space in the engine room. It may not be everyone's ideal set up but it would work fine.

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...and would keep the current starter as a spare. It's a replacement and was no trouble to install.

We're also getting rid of the holding tank and going with a desiccating toilet. What to do with 1/2 the engine room being free space? How about a small diesel 12 volt generator for weeks long stays in remote anchorages? Burly heater for 12 month comfort? So many choices...

"about a small diesel 12 volt generator for weeks long stays in remote anchorages?"

The trick here is to NOT copy the AC style power plants with their constant speed engines.

A simple voltage operated throttle will allow the engine RPM to be just what is required to maintain the DC voltage.

The off grid folks do this .

MurrayM said:

When starting the engine, it would just be a matter of turning the ignition key to the "ON" position, then tripping the spring starter

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Spring starters are a bit pricey but are the ultimate in reliability if your plans are for remote cruising. However don’t leave the job half-done... remove the fuel shutoff solenoid and instead run a push pull cable.

You can maintain any alarms for low pressure/high temp/etc., but they just won’t auto-shutdown the engine.

Now your engine will be 100% mechanical and will operate even after a nuclear EMP or when the zombies are ruling the lands!

makobuilders said:

Spring starters are a bit pricey but are the ultimate in reliability if your plans are for remote cruising. However don’t leave the job half-done... remove the fuel shutoff solenoid and instead run a push pull cable.

You can maintain any alarms for low pressure/high temp/etc., but they just won’t auto-shutdown the engine.

Now your engine will be 100% mechanical and will operate even after a nuclear EMP or when the zombies are ruling the lands!

Click to expand...

Interesting thought. Will investigate further.

Remote cruising is exactly what we want to do.

We were 1/2 way up the narrow, twisting, mountain lined Gardner Canal last year and got a rope around our prop *just* before grabbing a mooring buoy. When we called Pan Pan the Coast Guard could barely understand what I was saying, having to repeat often on my end. If we were all the way up, or up one of the side channels, there's no way the radio would have worked at all.

More on the ‘remote’ aspect...

We used to sea kayak, even in winter, for up to two months at a time. Looking forward to anchoring in areas with zero radio reception for several weeks at a time, where seeing another boat is unlikely. Once retirement comes along, we foresee anchoring for up to two months in such places to photograph.

(We carry a Spot Messenger)

The less to go wrong, the better.

"You can maintain any alarms for low pressure/high temp/etc., but they just won’t auto-shutdown the engine. "

The Murphy switch gauge system comes close.

A spring powered shut down is armed by hand and if enabled ( preset limit is reached) a dedicated dry battery will pull the pin for a shut down.

The dry batt will also illuminate what (hi temp, low oil pressure) sensor caused the shutdown.

Their system is perfect for a crew that knows nothing about diesels, as long as someone on board does.

makobuilders said:

Now your engine will be 100% mechanical and will operate even after a nuclear EMP or when the zombies are ruling the lands!

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Nothing wrong with going all mechanical. Just curious how you think the diesel will get delivered after the nuclear EMP or when the zombies are ruling the lands!

Ted

I got called out to fix a no-start on a 14liter diesel with air start. Turned out it was air in the fuel. Got that sorted and reprimed the injection system. No big deal. Only problem was the air start tank (guess about 50gal) would only give it about 5sec of cranking. Then take about 15min to recharge. Took all afternoon to get that thing running.

Figure a spring starter would be the same. Great until you need to crank for more than a few turns, then it will suck.

Ski in NC said:

I got called out to fix a no-start on a 14liter diesel with air start. Turned out it was air in the fuel. Got that sorted and reprimed the injection system. No big deal. Only problem was the air start tank (guess about 50gal) would only give it about 5sec of cranking. Then take about 15min to recharge. Took all afternoon to get that thing running.

Figure a spring starter would be the same. Great until you need to crank for more than a few turns, then it will suck.

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It sure would suck hoping an engine fires as the last of the battery banks are drained. (Hard to imagine, but possible with no generator and even if we had solar panels it could rain/drizzle for weeks at a time).

I'd rather have the hassle of winding it up again than firing off a "HELP" signal on the Spot Messenger because we're out of radio contact and haven't seen another boat for more than a week.

I'd keep the engine electric start, and keep the spring starter as a spare. Electric is way more convenient. Do install the spring starter and make sure it works.

Ski in NC said:

I'd keep the engine electric start, and keep the spring starter as a spare. Electric is way more convenient. Do install the spring starter and make sure it works.

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There's wisdom there. Will ponder before leaping...

If the cruiser is not complete , you might contemplate going to a hyd starter.

The cost will be higher than the lifeboat style spring starter but at least you get the makings of a hyd system.

Boat hoist or windlass that wont burn out, easy/cheap cruising 120 or 240v and all the other usual hyd delights.

Just a thought.

"If you have to bleed the fuel system by cracking the injectors and rotating the engine if you run out, what do you do?"

The simplest answer would be to install a gravity day tank.

This should assure clean fuel with no need to crank to bleed most diesel fuel systems.

The problem is to get a GREAT practical low maint offshore cruiser it would probably be easier to get a boat built than convert a cookie to offshore voyaging few were built for.

FF said:

The problem is to get a GREAT practical low maint offshore cruiser it would probably be easier to get a boat built than convert a cookie to offshore voyaging few were built for.

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Agreed - good statement.

Pretty much impossible to convert IMO. We all know that a SD cruiser cannot be "converted" into a FD bluewater cruiser. Hulls cannot practically be changed. Example: to take a typical GB42 and add another 500-1000 gallons of diesel tankage to think it can cross oceans like a KK or NH is silly. Then you also have to remove all the glazing and replace with nice heavy 10mm tempered or such. Then perhaps add a ton or two of lead ballast. You'd be sitting 12" low on your WL and would likely flounder and sink in the next storm.

To convert a commercial bluewater fish boat (like a an old shrimp trawler) is more practical but would still cost serious money and effort.

I've visited shipyards all over the world in my travels and work and honestly it would cost similar to have a strong, bluewater boat built from scratch (but commercial quality, not yacht quality) as it would to buy a (young) used KK or NH or to convert that fishing trawler.

I think that we're all looking for our own solutions to the same goal of enjoying time on the water and traveling to far off galaxies

Some practical solutions do not end up on white boats because of style.

One example is a round tug boat style stern, that is splendid for controlling a boat by backing to a piling or sea wall.

Folks seem to prefer to use twin engines , bow and stern thrusters and computer joy sticks (all which have to be maintained) to solve a common tight quarters turning problem.

FF said:

Some practical solutions do not end up on white boats because of style.

One example is a round tug boat style stern, that is splendid for controlling a boat by backing to a piling or sea wall.

Folks seem to prefer to use twin engines , bow and stern thrusters and computer joy sticks (all which have to be maintained) to solve a common tight quarters turning problem.

Click to expand...

As the joy stick and/or GPS self-mooring boats age, I am sure we will start to hear some interesting stories.

where do I find spring starters

jimisbell said:

where do I find spring starters

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start here: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q="spring+starter"+diesel&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

I contacted only one manufacturer with the specs for our engine, and they didn't have one that matched. Didn't pursue the matter much further.

Now exploring another path...

I have contacted one for a bid. I suspect that the price will be $1300++ and it wont fit in the space I have available on my Volvo TAMD40A in my Mk 1 Mainship 34

I got my quote. Only $858 not too bad. Now I have to think about it.

That’s a very good price. Install it and keep the electric one for backup. Or vice versa. What’s your preference?

I like the idea but I need to see if there is room for it to fit. AND convince myself it is worth the engineering, moving things about to simplify the batteries, And What would it do to the resale value of the boat.

I would find it annoying to have to go down into the ER to wind the starter every time I needed to start the motor.

I would not have to even open the hatch as the crank could be inserted on an extension thru a covered hole in the floor.
I think it would be cool to tell a visitor, "I have to wind up the mainspring before we go." It would be interesting to see their reactions.