Selene Quality

CaptainSEA said:

Hi, I just took delivery of my new Selene 80 fishing explorer, first cruise for over 600 Nmiles, all is as expected, extremely stable at sea, craftsmanship equal not to say superior to the Nordhavn ( I initially was looking at Nordhavn since I had opportunity to cruise on a N55), all systems are well engineered, I was a previous owner of 2 superyachts over 120ft and this yacht has nothing to be shy compared to them. Not familiar with KK but I am positive in saying that Nordhavn and Selene are now playing on the same league. Still some significant price difference mainly due to the marketing structure of the two companies.

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I spent some time on the Selene site looking at what limited information they had on your little ship. Beautiful boat! Congratulations! Was it some sort of custom order? It's not listed as a production boat under their yacht tab.
You appear to be cruising in the east. It would be interesting to hear more about that. Just how difficult is it to meander from country to country?

leeman said:

I spent some time on the Selene site looking at what limited information they had on your little ship. Beautiful boat! Congratulations! Was it some sort of custom order? It's not listed as a production boat under their yacht tab.
You appear to be cruising in the east. It would be interesting to hear more about that. Just how difficult is it to meander from country to country?

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The 80 Fishing explorer is based on the Selene 66 model (72 ft) with a 6 ft stern extension to accomodate 2 live baits tanks.
Cruising most part of South East Asian waters is both easy and rewarding, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Myanmar, Andaman Islands (India) offer excellent facilities in terms of Marinas, technical support, pretty easy dealings with authorities, and above all fantastic cruising destinations. Still have the Philippines in my bucket list as well as the maldives. I have cruised from Florida to Thailand with my previous yacht, visited some dreaming places such as BoraBora, Fiji,... but to be honest cruising SEA waters is at least as rewarding and definitely much less crowded than the Bahamas or the Med.

In 2012 we came very close to buying a new Selene 58. We were very pleased to see a variety of build quality and design improvements over the earlier year vessels we'd looked at in detail. I'd guess Chen and group have continued their efforts to make Selenes a class act.

Like an earlier poster mentioned, we'd spent considerable time with commissioning groups learning what areas had been problematic for Selene. To be fair, during that time there were several problem areas we'd been coached to look out for in another name brand vessel.

We are currently shopping for our retirement boat. Looking at KK, Selene's and maybe GB Europas. We like the livability and layout of the Selene. Probably looking at the 43' because the draft gets too much on the 47' to do the loop reasonably. Anyone know what the production years were for the 43' Legacy model? I think they shipped the first one here in 1999 but I'm having trouble finding out when they quit making them in favor of the 45'. I would love to see a Selene Forum. How do I go about asking for that???

Julsburd said:

We are currently shopping for our retirement boat. Looking at KK, Selene's and maybe GB Europas. We like the livability and layout of the Selene. Probably looking at the 43' because the draft gets too much on the 47' to do the loop reasonably. Anyone know what the production years were for the 43' Legacy model? I think they shipped the first one here in 1999 but I'm having trouble finding out when they quit making them in favor of the 45'. I would love to see a Selene Forum. How do I go about asking for that???

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https://www.seleneowners.org/home.php?

Thanks for the link to the owners group. I am already a member of that. I was referring to getting a specific Selene group on Trawler's Forum. The Selene owners website is good but I think it isn't used very much because a lot of the postings are old. Any information about the Selene 43 would be appreciated!

CaptainSEA said:

The 80 Fishing explorer is based on the Selene 66 model (72 ft) with a 6 ft stern extension to accomodate 2 live baits tanks.
Cruising most part of South East Asian waters is both easy and rewarding, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Myanmar, Andaman Islands (India) offer excellent facilities in terms of Marinas, technical support, pretty easy dealings with authorities, and above all fantastic cruising destinations. Still have the Philippines in my bucket list as well as the maldives. I have cruised from Florida to Thailand with my previous yacht, visited some dreaming places such as BoraBora, Fiji,... but to be honest cruising SEA waters is at least as rewarding and definitely much less crowded than the Bahamas or the Med.

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Pardon the side drift from Selenes, but in your travels in South East Asia, how would you describe, generally, how safe you felt at your anchorages? Any piracy encountered? Did the locals usually welcome you? Interested in any related commentary.

The 43 began as Solo. The original hulls were produced by Jet Tern for Halvorsen for import beginning in 1998. A 47 was added to the Solo line, and they were produced as Solo, nine hulls were built. Hull 09 was the 1st Selene, it was dual-badged as a Solo/Selene. IIRC it was about 2001. At that time, Howard Chen & Halvorsen parted ways and Howard and Jet Tern took complete control of production and marketing of the line that became Selene.

Around 40 of the 43 ft. hulls were produced until the changes in the hull lineup were introduced about 2008 with the deep hull (DH) configuration and other changes in the lineup that saw the 43 badged as 45, the 48 as a 50 and other lineup changes that I lost track of.

As a long time owner of an early Solo/Selene (4303) I've seen the changes in the brand over the 13 yrs we've owned our Solo. Most of the hulls were built for an owner. There were hulls produced on "spec", but most had owners when they began production, so each of those hulls are, to an extent custom-built for the owner. We've seen the progression of the line as each successive model incorporated the feedback from owners of earlier hulls. If there were things on our boat that "I wish they'd.... ", it seems that those changes appeared in later hulls.

We've been very happy with our Solo. We've traveled over 38,000 nm, and accumulated over 7500 engine hours in 13 years of ownership and full-time cruising.

Thanks Steve. Your information was nice to hear and it was important to know the end of the model (2008). What is the draft of your boat and do you think that changes with each hull design of the 43's. That is one thing we find interesting about the Selene's is that they are all a little bit different. They are a really nice boat and you confirmed that. Thanks!

Ken E. said:

John, so that's what you do with your spare time......make your ER sparkle?

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LOL Crusty uses a toothbrush to make sure the bilge is shiny clean. Pausing just long enough to get an AA from the guy smoking a cigar and sipping scotch on his bow!!

These Navy guys......

Julsburd said:

Thanks Steve. Your information was nice to hear and it was important to know the end of the model (2008). What is the draft of your boat and do you think that changes with each hull design of the 43's. That is one thing we find interesting about the Selene's is that they are all a little bit different. They are a really nice boat and you confirmed that. Thanks!

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We're a full 5 ft draft. Trent-Severn is skinny in spots if you're planning to loop via that route. Water levels were at some of the highest levels in 2017 when we did that route, about 9" lower coming back. We bumped the bottom around Kirkfield both directions, and at the hole in the wall RR bridge. We're stern-heavy due to placement of the water tanks in the laz- relocated fwd on later hulls.


Doors were a weak spot, they switched to Diamond Sea Glaze doors around hull 14? don't quote me on that. Barry N. (4309) has that info. Even the Diamond SG doors can have corrosion issues. Stainless window frames were an option, well worth it!



Happy hunting!

Ken E. said:

Pardon the side drift from Selenes, but in your travels in South East Asia, how would you describe, generally, how safe you felt at your anchorages? Any piracy encountered? Did the locals usually welcome you? Interested in any related commentary.

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Hi Ken, no worry for the drift in the forum but take care of the drift while at anchor!!!
Cruising South East Asian waters has been very safe for me, nice anchorages, no piracy at all, I heard that there are some safety issues in some parts of the Philippines but haven’t been there yet so can’t really comment on that. The locals are usually very friendly provided you respect the rules and culture of the country, need to get used to the fisshing fleets in Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand since they don’t necessary have all the regulatory navigation lights and few of them have an AIS, so for night navigation, a good radar is very welcome...Should you have more specific needs for information, please do not hesitate to pm me.

Engine

I have a Selene with a 300+ hp Cummins diesel. <200 hp would be plenty for this 43 ft boat. I asked one of the primaries at the company why the boats have such large engines. She told me that Americans opt for the big engines. My biggest complaints are - no get home power source and the generator is positioned with the after cooler of the engine is unreachable and it is impossible to add a new zinc and service the after cooler.

Welcome aboard. A lot of boats are like that. Inaccessible things are not uncommon.

I don’t know you specific layout. However, you may be able to install an access point (hatch and cover) directly above your genset on the interior sole(???).

Comodave said:

Welcome aboard. A lot of boats are like that. Inaccessible things are not uncommon.

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A good federal law would be that before the first boat is delivered, the CEO has to do a complete engine service, and the video of it posted online. This would not be onerous at all for a company that a) had a CEO that knew anything about his product and b) cared at all about the product they ship.

I would not limit the law to boats.

But to be honest, the blame for this sort of thing rests on all of us, the boat buying public, who are typically a lot more likely to ask how many it sleeps, than whether the engine can be serviced.

DDW is right on the money about this issue extending to almost everything. I had almost that exact conversation years ago with the engineers at one of our larger factories, after fielding years of complaints from service people: "did any of you ever try to install one of these?" 100% of the time the answer was "no, that's not our job."
The sad truth is that very few products are designed so that they are easy to service, even though service is what keeps those products running and keeps the brand's good reputation.
PNK

It looked good on paper…

I'd guess this is why second boat owners hire Steve D.

Peter

I looked at KK and NH when I bought my Selene 57. To be honest, all 3 would have done the trick, but I'm very satisfied with my Selene. I was looking for a single engine, full displacement long distance trawler. Here is my impression of our Selene after 2.5 years of ownership and about 10K miles traveled from Maine to the Bahamas, living aboard nearly full time and anchoring out almost exclusively.

The layout of the 57 is terrific. It's very similar to a Nordhavn 57, which I consider to be their best boat. 3 stateroom, with midship master and spacious VIP stateroom. It has a fairly low profile, a very well protected prop with large keel that makes it track very well, everything is easy to access (relatively), it is very easy to move around in, handles different sea states very well, is relatively simple and intuitive, has a good selection of high quality components, has amazing woodwork inside (much better than N or KK), has good speed and fuel economy, has good access in the engine room, has a huge lazarette with large freezer, and doesn't consume a huge amount of electricity to operate. It's weight (according to the Selene website) is 102,000 lbs, but I think it is slightly heavier, maybe 110K. And the boat look awesome. One of the best looking boats in the water IMO. We get lots of comments about how good she looks. In comparison the N57 is 122K pounds and 6'-2" draft (according to N website).

The downsides are: the gelcoat is not good. My boat has visible defects in parts of the hull that can be seen from 10-15 feet away. The topside gelcoat is thin in spots, but that may be from prior owner's care. The draft is 6'-6" (the website says 5'-9", but I measured it when it was on pavement and the website is wrong). I need to stoop in the engine room, not stand up. The ER is well laid out and easy to get around, but my back starts to bother me after a while. I do hear creaks when we're in heavy seas that are may be common with other boats, I'm not sure. It may mean Selene needs to isolate the woodwork from the hull a little better.

To answer the OPs question, I think Selene's biggest achilles heel is their gelcoat process. I don't think it's isolated to early Selene's only. I bid on a Selene 59 a few years ago that was in Seattle that had a gelcoat issue. I think that was a 2018 model. It got a lot of interest here on TF. I do believe this is a cosmetic issue only, and not all Selenes have gelcoat issues. So I don't think Selene had good control of the gelcoat process. Maybe they do now, dunno.

My perception of Nordhavn is that their boat designs are all over the map. The 57 is wildly different that the 55. They have a lot of stairs to climb, making movement through the boat slower. The hulls are beefy, and the engine rooms are nicely done.

KKs seem a little dated with the parquet floors and big, turned wood column supporting the galley cabinets. I'm not a big fan of the master stateroom in the bow, and the upward sloping deck. They are efficient through the water, but also a little slower.

Anyway, that's my impression. Yours may be different.

PNK said:

...
The sad truth is that very few products are designed so that they are easy to service, even though service is what keeps those products running and keeps the brand's good reputation.
PNK

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And I think the other problem is they deliberately design things TO BE hard to service so you have to go back to the dealer.

We had a Honda, that to change a cabin air filter, required viewing a YouTube video. This is something that should be easy to do but they made it difficult on purpose.

Somethings are done to cheapen manufacturing, and thus increase the company's profit, but which make service more difficult than needed. Our clothes washer filter is an example. No easy, quick way to get to the filter. Once you get TO the filter it is easy to clean, but it can take a 1-2 hours to get to the filter AND a special tool.

Later,
Dan

dannc said:

And I think the other problem is they deliberately design things TO BE hard to service so you have to go back to the dealer.

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I cannot credit the NA/builder with that much competence in this issue. It is simply ignorance or sloth.

I know a couple of very high priced and well regarded NAs, who know very little about boatbuilding or boat maintenance. They draw things that cannot be built or maintained because they are ignorant of those operations. I know well regarded builders who have never cruised extensively and had to repair something in a remote location. Engineers are notorious for this, designing stuff that is difficult to build because they have never built anything. I remember in engineering school senior year and most of the book learning done, there was a "senior project" class, in which you had to propose a product and then build it and make it work. It was a Waterloo moment for a large percentage of the class.

Long ago, when HP was a highly regarded company, if you were hired out of college to work there as a design engineer, your first year would be spent maybe on the manufacturing line, second year in QA and debug, etc. before you got to design anything. This made sure you had first hand knowledge of those issues before a design pencil was placed in your hand.

DDW said:

But to be honest, the blame for this sort of thing rests on all of us, the boat buying public, who are typically a lot more likely to ask how many it sleeps, than whether the engine can be serviced.

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Right. Or whether an aftercooler is really needed on a trawler. Lots of boats get shipped with bigger engines than the builder or designer originally intended.

I sure do miss the boating life and our Pairadice has been sold again. Hope they take good care of her.

DDW said:

....
Long ago, when HP was a highly regarded company, if you were hired out of college to work there as a design engineer, your first year would be spent maybe on the manufacturing line, second year in QA and debug, etc. before you got to design anything. This made sure you had first hand knowledge of those issues before a design pencil was placed in your hand.

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Yep. Today, management thinks someone straight out of school is actually competent. It takes a few years, at a minimum, to get people trained to have a chance at doing quality, productive work. I knew other companies that did the same thing as HP where the first position was working support so one had some experience with what Customer's do, how the products DONT work, and how painful this is for the Customer.


Later,
Dan

Have just come across this thread although it started some years ago! We have just built a brand new Selene 60 which we ordered in 2018 but for many reasons, among which the pandemic lockdowns, it was not delivered until 2022. We took delivery in Hong Kong in May 2022 - and because we were not going via a dealer, we attempted to fully specify the yacht at the shipyard (got them to install all electrical systems, electronics, etc etc). We did procure and design things ourselves, but the yard installed.

Having read through the whole thread, I would agree with the general concensus of opinions here from Selene owners. The basic build of the yacht is great - she is stable and seemingly solid. It is true that there are NO standards whatsoever - and there are not even any electrical diagrams or plumbing diagrams for each boat. So not only do they not keep them the same within models, but they don't even know themselves where things run. This does cause major issues with servicing and troubleshooting.

The comments on gel coat are also very valid. Ours being a brand new model from 2022, I can confirm that this issue has not been solved. We came out of the shipyard with a patchwork quilt of different coloured "oyster white" gel coat. Look down the side deck and you could see every single modification done to the mould and every touch up. We have fixed this in commissioning - it's taken us nearly two years to get her in the right state all through and through. The gel coat has been reapplied by a really top notch individual here in the Philippines - he has painstakingly gone over every inch of the boat and manually redone the GRP. She now looks fantastic.

It is also true to say that they cut corners on some things and install sub-standard fittings. This doesn't apply to the main equipment where they do include top models for things like fuel polishing, steering, get-home, stabilisers, generators. Your issue comes with internal water pipes for example - every one of our joins leaked and we had to do them again.

Would I buy a Selene again? Yes, absolutely without hesitation. Our new 60 cost somewhere in the region of $2m US - fully kitted out with everything including a lot of personally designed gadgets. (More information available on those if anybody is interested!). Compare that to the cost of a 65ft Nordhavn or KK and you can afford to do a huge amount of correction work in the Selene. Most things are just annoying - and happen because the guys actually putting the boat together in the yard have never been on a boat. They have no idea that drawers and cupboards will come open when you're on the seas - so they didn't understand they need to fit buttons that would actually lock ...... They just don't think or don't understand the implications - they are willing and need more education.

Happy to answer anybody's questions about the Selene 60 - we are now very happy with the boat, but NOT happy that it's taken us so long to get to where we are. We have one 600nm passage under our belts as the maiden voyage and sea-trial and would really love to start racking up the miles and the hours on our engine with cruising. This will happen in the next month.