Simple Sailing Versus Well Appointed Trawlering

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remove the microwave oven

Everyone cooks differently, but I also remove the microwave. Just not worth the space it takes up. The previous owner of my boat removed the oven and put a microwave in its place. That is deranged IMO. I can't live without an oven.
 
It can be difficult keeping track regarding who doesn’t like who. Paddlers just paddle, and ignore the drama. A good thing.

Now don't be bringing who likes and doesn't like who into the conversation - this is more chosen life style, and the original tougue-in-cheek question was; am I a bad person for liking my creature comforts!
 
am I a bad person for liking my creature comforts!

Nope! Just as the person who eschews creature comforts is not a bad person, either.

It is the person who is arrogantly self-righteous of either chosen way that is annoying...
 
Nope! Just as the person who eschews creature comforts is not a bad person, either.

It is the person who is arrogantly self-righteous of either chosen way that is annoying...

Yep, in fact that lady on the cat who was drying the bed sheets? She has had full loads of washing drying on her rails both the last two days(looks like mostly t-shirts). Guess what, they have four teenagers trolling around in their dinghy, picking up other kids from other boats and heading off to the beach! Turning up hours later.

What's not to love!
 
We have done both.

30 years ago we cruised an older 40' steel ketch. Very simple. Did not have: inside showers, hot water heater, HVAC, holding tank, water maker, generator, freezer, autopilot, chart plotters, cameras, radar....

We did have a single 55 hp industrial Ford engine, Aeries wind vane, 5 HP/roll-up dinghy, one manual salt water head, 100 gal water tank, 80 gal diesel tank, an RDF, an old depth depth finder, VHF, paper charts and one battery bank. While cruising we installed a roller furling genoa, SSB, sextant, hand-held GPS and small wind generator. No car, no house. No broker, no insurance. Before cell phones and internet.

Yet we cruised for an enjoyable 5 years, 13K miles at 4-6 knots via the Med, transatlantic, east-south-west Caribbean. Stayed many months in Italy, Greece , Spain, Grenada/Trinidad, Panama, Guatemala and Belize.

Now we have a 30 year old, twin screw, heavy displacement 45 ton trawler with multiple aging but well backed up systems. In a year we have covered 2K miles at 6-7 knots and now in the Bahamas.

Real differences: (+) space, comfort, ice; (-) our age, complexity, cost, maintenance time, roll. Improvements in communications, WX information and electronic charts are the same for power and sail. Although the boat is capable, we probably will not undertake more than 3 day crossings.

At this point I would call it an even trade-off. In general we feel that sailors live closer to the water, weather and have easier interactions with local culture. Respect is due.

Everyone enjoys the same surrounding nature and culture, no matter what you have. And, as noted above, there is always a bigger and better boat around the corner.
I have also done both -- sailing is an art- power boating is boring boring boring and destinations are very limited . I remember cruising down island in 1971 -didn't see hardly any power boats in Caribbean except very large ones with paid crews - the owners flew in as they were afraid of the open sea.
 
When you are at the fuel dock buying 500 gallons of diesel, the sailors are going to look lovingly at their couple of yellow Jerry cans! :smitten:

I agree with DCDC posts, "At this point I would call it an even trade-off. In general we feel that sailors live closer to the water, weather and have easier interactions with local culture. Respect is due."

The bottom line, however, is that it sounds like everyone was enjoying a beautiful anchorage! :)

Jim
That 500 gallons will only last him about 40 hours -its more like 1000 gallons at $4 or $4000. LOL after all he must run his generator all the time.
 
I had a 28 ft wooden Friendship Sloop with an ice box, and no oven which I spent several weeks on for a few summers in Maine. I had as much fun as I have had on my gadget laden powerboats, but had to call into shore more often for the showers I am addicted to. The most luxurious thing I had was a Nespresso machine, which requires a true sine wave inverter. ( I found out the hard way)
The one piece of equipment I wish I didn’t have to have is a phone!
Best,
Maldwin
 
This is a slippery slope....2 of them actually. There's nothing wrong with enjoying your creature comforts or the benefits of your wealth.....but when does it become gloating ?? There are angels and arseholes in any large group, and categorizing an entire group of people, based on one criteria, ( like method of boat propulsion ) is painting with too broad a brush.
 
Non qui parum habet, sed qui plus cupit, pauper est.

(It is not the man who has little, but the man who craves more, that is poor.)
- Seneca Philosophus, Epistulae morales
 
Oh boy.. what a thread.


When we did our bluewater cruise of the Pacific in the early 90's we did it in a 35' boat with a watermaker. ssb, gsp plotter, weather fax, could make ice, had a instant hot water heater and most of the comforts of home. 90% of the boats had at least as much in the way of amenities as we had. There were a small percentage of boats that were simple cruisers.. we knew of two guys on a 25' boat that actually shared 1 knife, 1 fork and one spoon... no electronics.. no nothing.



The same folks that would dry camp across the states in a old van are the same type of folks that sail simple. The cool thing is we all get to experience the same views, sunsets, pain of the voyage, rough weather and the thrill of pulling into a new port after a ocean voyage.

We met a couple power cruisers in the years we were out, it wasn't that common to cross oceans under power as it is now. The thing is it's the experience of the voyage, not the way you get there.

We are planning to go out cruising again, not sure if it will be under power or sail.. mono hull or cat ( prefer a cat for the speed ) .. the goal is to just get out there.


HOLLYWOOD
 
And everyone who doesn’t have the same anchor as me should not own a boat.
 
... categorizing an entire group of people, based on one criteria, ( like method of boat propulsion ) is painting with too broad a brush.

Agreed, and note I have not done so in this thread, except for one area...

That is, with first person experience, that those who are pumping sewage overboard in anchorages here are sail boaters. Again I have not said all sail boaters are doing it (though I have to assume that those who put down anchor or pick up a ball for six months without moving have to be doing something with it).

Apart from that, and back to my OP, am I a bad person for loving my creature comforts and taking pleasure in being able to have them?

I believe you will find those are the extent of my offerings on this thread, regardless of what some have chosen to put their own words to! :)
 
We are planning to go out cruising again, not sure if it will be under power or sail.. mono hull or cat ( prefer a cat for the speed ) .. the goal is to just get out there.

HOLLYWOOD

I would say that around 30% of the boats out here are sailing cats, maybe higher. Though I would say the majority of them motor a lot of the time.

I have been wondering where all of these cats are kept when back in the states? There aren't that many spots for them in marinas.
 
"The one piece of equipment I wish I didn’t have to have is a phone!"

Gravity is your friend , take it to the rail and turn it free!
 
Though the phone is a huge bonus if it allows you to work and be on the water!

Silver linings!
 
Quite a number of times over the past few weeks my better half has basically stated that if we had bought a sailboat we would not be doing long trips!

Maybe fun when young, but not a way to enjoy retirement.

That’s what converted us from sail to power. I was quite happy living the minimalist sailboater lifestyle when cruising. My wife, not so much.

:)
 
Agreed, and note I have not done so in this thread, except for one area...

That is, with first person experience, that those who are pumping sewage overboard in anchorages here are sail boaters...

They may have desiccating heads.
 
Or type 1 or 2 MSDs.


Plus, what are the legal reqirements?


Where are they and others in relation to tidal flow?
 
Folks, what alerted us to it was the smell, when we went out we see a nice brown patch floating by. It was strong enough the first time that I would have suspected my holding tank vent if it wasn't for the fact that I had just replaced the filter a month ago!

As to regs. None in the Bahamas as there are no official anchorages anywhere in the islands. These example were in anchorages where people swim - in fact in Cambridge Cay (in the Exuma Land and Sea Park) there were people in the water at the time it happened. The two boats up stream from us in Cambridge had come in that morning - so if they had holding tanks could/should have emptied them while outside. It could be that they have their heads set to go straight overboard regardless of where they are.
So not illegal by any means, but certainly not appropriate or, in my opinion, acceptable.

Now Elizabeth Harbour (George Town) is another story altogether. Anywhere from 200-400 boats in there at any one time, many spending the whole winter. Quite a number of these are on balls in two hurricane holes. You can have a look at Google Maps or Earth.

Back about 7-8 years ago I believe, they decided that they needed a pump out boat as the harbour was getting polluted. So they passed a reg that no discharge in the harbour, with a fine of up to $1K. Leaflets were passed out etc.

That pump out boat stopped operating years ago, don't know if the reg is still in place but, quite frankly, I doubt it was ever enforced anyway.

So we tell our guests not to swim in the harbour.

I am sure there are plenty of other forum members who have spent time here who can chime in.
 
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We were anchored at Big Major’s on our last cruise and watched a 90 foot yacht blow its holding tank early one morning. I didn’t go back in the water while anchored there after that. :angry:
 
I've never been there, but I seem to recall (maybe Crusiserforum?) that is was very common in many area of the Bahamas for pleasure boats to just pump their waste overboard, hopefully with an outgoing tide.

Jim
 
They might call it coming to the dark side, but have you been in the main cabin of the average sailboat? That is what won us over, large bright windows with endless beautiful views. Another big plus is inside steering, Looking thru the plastic dodger with wind and water everywhere gets kind of old. The air conditioning, hot showers, and queen size beds aren"t bad either. Kind of nice not opening every bridge we come to also. Sailing is fun, cruising short handed on a sailboat not so much. To each is own.
 
JP - I agree with you 100% regarding most sailboats living areas are like dungeons. Thats why I went with a pilothouse sailboat with 360 degree views plus an inside helm. No bridges to worry about on the ocean, so a motorsailer works well for me, even shorthanded or solo.

There's a boat out there to suit everyone's tastes.
 
Hi Menzies, how're ya doin, were about similar vintage, what part of Ireland are you from ?
I was skint back then and my first 'boat' was given to me by some old hands, it was a sunken dinghy in Glenarm harbour up in Co Antrim.
It was some 'craic' getting her up and fixed but it gave me the boating bug.
 
It can be difficult keeping track regarding who doesn’t like who. Paddlers just paddle, and ignore the drama. A good thing.

But why do some have to paddle out in front of me in narrow channels? Not so much kayakers, but SUPs seem to be sort of tipsy: I’m always worried that one will fall off in front of me. There does not seem to be much boating knowledge beyond “I have the right of way since I am unpowered” in many of the SUP community.
 
So we hung out in George Town, Exuma today, watching lots of folks on sail boats bring in their water cans to get free water from the dock faucet, their yellow Jerry cans to get diesel, and one woman on a catamaran hang her bed sheets and other laundry off the rails to dry!

I was wondering, as I just now turned on the generator, started the water-maker up, walked into the galley and turned on the full dishwasher, as Sian put a load of washing into the washing machine - does this make me a bad person?

:devil:
Sounds great but how are you going to deal with any onevir more of those systems failing when you need it the most? More stuff just means more stuff to break!
 
My wife and I just got to old to pull on the strings.

So we sold the SB and bought a 49' DeFever CPMY. Wow. 2 bed, 2 bath, washer/dryer, walk-in engine room, ice machine, lido deck with disco ball, stereo, and small kegs of beer stored inside.

No more living in the belly of the boat.

Now we sold the big boat (after three year great loop trip), bought a 28' Albin to run around the islands. Oh, but yeah, next year we're going back to the big boat so we can travel in greater comfort on our longer journeys. Yeah, we're even older now and need a big boat with minimal stairs and ladders, big shower (if you know what I mean), and center line bed. LOL
 
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