What about a gas trawler?

Almost EVERY photo of a gas boat exploding was a few feet from a dock after the boat refueled.

Means someone was not paying attention!

South of Heaven said:

My new boat has twin Crusader gassers. It's not a trawler by any stretch of the imagination but it IS probably biggest interior of any 35 foot hull I came across. It'll make the perfect liveaboard for me. TooCoys, go tour one in person. You may fall in love with it like I did. Here's the one Im under contract on. I would've preferred diesels but every boat is a compromise. I found a gem.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2005/silverton-35-motor-yacht-3066629/?refSource=enhanced listing

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Nice boat.

toocoys said:

There is a trawler that we like (long story, I’ll update y’all later) but it has two Crusader 350’s in it. Why they put gas engines in a trawler in the mid 80’s I’ll never understand but there it is.



Would the fuel efficiency of a trawler with gas engines at 8 knots be the same as planing hull at idle?



For reference this is the boat I’m teferring to:

https://www.popyachts.com/motor-yac...ian-38-trawler-in-league-city-texas-r1-104295



Please leave all comments about the dreaded seller aside, I am well aware.

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Nice boat. Nothing wrong with gassers if you're not going very far. I love the Californians. I owned a 42 LRC for 9 years with 3208As. Good solid boats. I'd look hard at that boat too.

DD788Snipe said:

Nice boat.

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Yes, and those 8.1s are such a step up from the 454s.

sunchaser said:

Yes, and those 8.1s are such a step up from the 454s.

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My last gas Motorhome had the 8.1 engine that GM for some stupid reason discontinued. That engine, stock, is a beast. I loved it. I could run off and leave my friends that had the 454s and V10s. It was also, for a big block, not bad on gas milege. If I was repowering a gas boat they would be my pick.

Cyclone said:

I agree with toocoys. I have moved to diesel, BayLiner 4087, after almost 50 yrs with gas. If I had to do it again I would take gas without question. If you run the 350s below 3000 with secondaries closed you will find fuel burn quite acceptable. In fact it may be less than a new high RPM diesel. Secondly, the cost of two new state of the art crusaders installed will be less than 1/3 of installing diesels in a gas powered boat. My last gas boat was a 1988 CC 381 and my burn rate ranged around 40 ltrs per. If the vessel passes the survey, make an offer. You will be happy.

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While 40 lph may not be bad for a gas engine, it's about triple what a diesel would burn.... FWIW.

If one isn't going far where fuel isn't the big issue, at the purchase price well below a comparable diesel model, it makes a lot of sense. If one is doing to Loop, nope.

Seevee wrote;
"While 40 lph may not be bad for a gas engine, it's about triple what a diesel would burn.... FWIW."
Diesels are more efficient as the loading decreases.
A gas engine is terrible fuel burn wise at low speeds/loads.
But they are near the same at full load/rpm.

Seevee said:

While 40 lph may not be bad for a gas engine, it's about triple what a diesel would burn.... FWIW..

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I think this is an apples to oranges comparison on gas to diesel. If a boat is going to have 1/3 the burn with the diesel engine it likely is a full displacement hull while the boat with the gassers is not.


With a lot of the boats that I have looked at, high hp gas engines drink about 50% more fuel that the high hp diesels engines, in the SAME boat.


Jim

The question is always speed.

In a displacement boat 3 hp per ton is plenty .2240 lbs to the Ton.

An old gas engine should burn a gallon to produce 10 hp, a new gas that same gallon gets 14 or 15 hp , but requires electronics and complications to do it.

Older diesels will usually give 15 hp per gallon at cruise , new is better (20-22) on fuel burn but are also stuck with complex systems.

To be realistic as to how useful the boat will be, the numbers should come close ,, for cheap to keep, price out a bunch of parts to add to the comparison.

The Loop is mostly a displacement speed trip (with some exceptions) so high speed and high fuel burn would not be very useful.

I'll throw my $0.02 in on gas vs diesel. Far too many variables that have to be evaluated on a boat by boat basis so I'll just keep it general.

Fire / explosion risk. If gas were as dangerous as many think then all the beer lubricated go fast boats out on a sunny weekend would be going off like pop corn. Yes the fuels present different risks but follow the safety rules and you'll be fine.

Maintenance & replacement. Gas is cheaper to maintain. MUCH cheaper. But you have to do it more often. Replacement of a gas engine should it be necessary is cheaper MUCH cheaper. But they don't live as long. Be honest, how many hrs a year will you use the boat? How many years till the engines wear out?

Reliability at sea. Old skool naturally aspirated all mechanical diesels when maintained properly almost never quit. Modern common rail electronically controlled diesels are not that same beast. In either gas or modern diesel get the electrics / electronics wet and you're dead in the water. I could tell you a horror story of new John Deere common rail electronicaly controlled engines another time.

Noise. There is no comparision. Gas is so much quieter.

Fuel availability. That all depends upon where you operate.

Fuel life. Gas deteriorates much more quickly than diesel. Espeically gas with ethanol. Evaluate how often you will run the boat and how far. Don't let the gas get old.

Overall costs to own operate. Don't focus on just the fuel burn rate. That behavior is what I call "Finding the right answer to the wrong question."

I started another thread about engines. Quite a few offered the very sound advice. "Buy the boat that suits you, run the engines it comes with."

Finding the right boat that suits you is far more important than the fuel used unless as others have pointed out, you travel extensively. We do not travel extensively and last year we settled on the layout of the 370 Voyager. Almost all were gas and the one diesel available was double the price. I could not justify it and have had no regrets to date. At 8 kts and at a fast idle I really don't use much fuel. It was hard, I love diesels.

BandB said:

Wifey B: But you never moved the last boat. Never used it.

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Well, we're still on it. Our first weekend cruise is planned in May.

We haven't used it since we've moved onto it, but that's not for lack of trying. Every time we had a weekend planned in the fall, it ended up storming. And we spent a lot of time traveling through the winter.

As a matter of fact, we just took a bunch of stuff off the boat this weekend and took it to storage in anticipation of cruising. And we've been working to de-clutter so that we can start going on a whim now that its getting warmer.

LaBomba said:

Finding the right boat that suits you is far more important than the fuel used unless as others have pointed out, you travel extensively. We do not travel extensively and last year we settled on the layout of the 370 Voyager. Almost all were gas and the one diesel available was double the price. I could not justify it and have had no regrets to date. At 8 kts and at a fast idle I really don't use much fuel. It was hard, I love diesels.

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Well, we really REALLY spoiled ourselves with this Mainship 37 M/Y. It has a full beam salon and there is TONS of room. It feels more like a small condo than it does a boat. Although it doesn't have a lower helm, that's really the only thing it lacks for me. And as you say, we aren't traveling extensively any time soon.

We still have the option to buy it at an incredible price if we wanted to. And we still may. The owner is in no hurry to sell it, and has said we can lease it for as long as we want. And I take care of it as if it is ours, so at this point its just a matter of paperwork.

I've just been on the trawler kick because I had gotten tired of defending myself when I said we lived on a boat with gas engines. It really can effect you negatively if you allow it to, especially when ever person you speak to says "you're going to blow up."

FF said:

The Loop is mostly a displacement speed trip (with some exceptions) so high speed and high fuel burn would not be very useful.

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Only if you choose to make it displacement speed. The only area where you're limited to displacement speed is the Erie Canal.

I do have a thing about gas boats, mainly due to a legal case I worked on. But if you are comfortable with them, and I don`t see why you shouldn`t be,then go for it. The advent of FI over carbys must have added a lot of safety(though not on Jaguars where but for a cross-flow head it would have dripped fuel on the exhaust manifold) by removing flooding and some leak potentials.
And as to converting to diesel,the cost of a rebuild of what you have would be so less costly conversion makes no $ sense.
Looks like either boat would work for you. I think you need to do a week`s cruise in the Mainship and see how it does what it was intended to do. We would probably own a very nice 2012 M395 by now, were it not for miserable water tankage combined with a fw flush head.

"The only area where you're limited to displacement speed is the Erie Canal."

Things must have changed, much of the Canadian system was limited to 10 kilometers / hour thru much of the built up areas and many islands..


This on either the Left or Right loops thru Canada .

FF said:

"The only area where you're limited to displacement speed is the Erie Canal."

Things must have changed, much of the Canadian system was limited to 10 kilometers / hour thru much of the built up areas and many islands..


This on either the Left or Right loops thru Canada .

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You're correct for Trent Severn. Most loopers don't take the Canadian route so I wasn't thinking of it. Still a very small part of the total loop.

"Still a very small part of the total loop."

Blasting up the center of the lakes would be to me, like seeing the USA from an interstate, why bother?

If we did it again we would do a U turn at Charlevoix and head back south down the East coast .

The Right loop Rideau , is a Parks Canada run with mostly canals connecting various lakes.

After 1812 the Canadians feared an invasion , so wanted their own inland waterway.

That's why Ho JO has 28 flavors , individual differences.

Ok, so call me old fashioned. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing better sounding than a couple big block gassers at idle or low RPM.

Not a huge fan of Galley down boats but that one really has some nice features.

Final point, been made several times already. Unless you are putting many hundred hours on the meter every year fuel cost isn't much of a consideration. Keep out of the four barrel and those thirsty beasts will just sip the fuel and last forever.

Pete

Pete Meisinger said:

Ok, so call me old fashioned. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing better sounding than a couple big block gassers at idle or low RPM.

Not a huge fan of Galley down boats but that one really has some nice features.

Final point, been made several times already. Unless you are putting many hundred hours on the meter every year fuel cost isn't much of a consideration. Keep out of the four barrel and those thirsty beasts will just sip the fuel and last forever.

Pete

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Yeah, we aren't doing any major cruising, so much as we are living on a floating home tied to dock in a marina.

Like I said, after hearing people tell you you're going to blow up every time you mention your boat, it kind of starts to wear on you. We really love the boat we are on, and we are looking forward to taking it out this summer as much as possible.

It's 23 years old this year, but it only has 600 hours on the engines. And they do sound quite lovely when I crank them up in the mornings. That low rumble gets me every time!

My 43 Viking is not a trawler, planing hull (basically their 43 SF with the cockpit decked over), 454 350 horse twin Crusaders. The only engine mods are Pertronix ignition. "Trawler" speed, 7-8 knots, she eats 8-10 gph combined as measured by the Floscan. The way she's propped, trawler speed is a fast idle and on the primaries. Most of our boat use is at that speed. A nice, very quiet ride.

She really likes to run in the 14-17 knot range, on plane, and fuel consumption goes to 30-32 gph. She will still do her advertised 27 knots (done once annually) - we don't talk about the numbers - resembles DC-3 fuel burn.

As to safety - when I got her, the first order of business was to replace every bit of rubber (fuel and other) attached to or feeding the engines. Zero leakage or vapor issues in nearly 10 years.

I operate 100-150 hours annually - zero incentive to repower with diesel - and as others have stated, absolutely no way to cost justify conversion based on fuel burn unless your horizon is measured in centuries.

My experience is that fuel cost is a pretty minor component of boat my ownership cost, given my usage.

Seevee said:

While 40 lph may not be bad for a gas engine, it's about triple what a diesel would burn.... FWIW.

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No...nowhere near 3x. The 'penalty' in fuel burn for gas vs. diesel is about 30% (1.3x), more or less depending on the engine(s) being compared.

Ski in NC did a nice job debunking this common myth on another thread recently, but a simple google search will resolve the question for you...

https://www.google.com/search?q=diesel+vs+gasoline+fuel+gph

toocoys said:

Like I said, after hearing people tell you you're going to blow up every time you mention your boat, it kind of starts to wear on you. We really love the boat we are on, and we are looking forward to taking it out this summer as much as possible.

It's 23 years old this year, but it only has 600 hours on the engines. And they do sound quite lovely when I crank them up in the mornings. That low rumble gets me every time!

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That Californian looked OK, but it sounds like you're homing in on your own better answer. And if you run it like a trawler when sea states permit, you'll be able to hear that rumble much better all the time.

Assuming you fixed that crapper problem.



-Chris

ranger42c said:

Assuming you fixed that crapper problem.



-Chris

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That crapper is going to be the death of me. BOTH macerator pumps are now on the fritz so I have to buy replacements for them, and soon I'll be pulling the entire aluminum tank out and replacing it with a poly tank. And while I'm doing all that I'm replacing all the hoses with that sani-flex stuff that Peggy suggested.

The crapper, and the generator are the only major issues that I have to sort out if we buy it. Not that we NEED a genset, but it would be nice to have A/C at anchor this summer.

In the meantime, this is how close we are to the bath house, so the crapper is not being used.

toocoys said:

That crapper is going to be the death of me. BOTH macerator pumps are now on the fritz so I have to buy replacements for them, and soon I'll be pulling the entire aluminum tank out and replacing it with a poly tank. And while I'm doing all that I'm replacing all the hoses with that sani-flex stuff that Peggy suggested.

The crapper, and the generator are the only major issues that I have to sort out if we buy it. Not that we NEED a genset, but it would be nice to have A/C at anchor this summer.

In the meantime, this is how close we are to the bath house, so the crapper is not being used.

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When the sanitation system bubbles up to the top of your irritation level... you might find part of it can be an easier fix than you might expect. (Or not, of course.) For example, replacing the macerator pump on the electric toilet we have is about a 10 minute job. Don't remember if you mentioned why type you have, but it could be easy.

Even replacing tank and hoses could be at least less difficult than you might imagine. I'm in the process of changing out our tank and sanitation lines (Yes, SaniFlex!) and while the over-all project was intimidating up front, many of the individual segments along the way haven't been as bas as I anticipated.

Maybe start another thread about that when you're ready, let everyone talk you through it...

Genset: when I lived in TX... I reckoned AC in the Summer time was a good idea!

-Chris