Where did I Screw Up? Genny No Start

Well I disconnected the pump outlet and nothing. I believe I have isolated it to the pump. I have one on order. Should be here in a couple of days.

It can be frustrating and misleading when you work on an engine and something unrelated go bad. Good luck with the new fuel pump.

Out of curiosity...what happens if you disconnect the pump inlet? Will fuel gravity drain out of the hose/tube? Or, if the engines are higher than the fuel tank, will it flow with suction, such as with a ketchup bottle, primer bulb, etc?

If you feel you found the problem, I'm sure you did. But, I'd have checked on the other side of pump before ordering a new one. One possibility, just for example, is that the fuel valve broke in the closed position and the pump, itself, is starved for fuel.

I forget whether we are talking about an electric lifter or a mechanical lifter. But, if the height isn't such that fuel can gravity drain, or possibly even if it can, it could also be a totally failed pump. This is more likely with an electric lifter, which could have a bad fuse, broken power wire, or some other total failure condition vs reduced ability to pump.

And the real lesson here is how to properly troubleshoot something. Start at one end and work thru to the other checking and verifying everything.

Good work !! Have a cold one !!

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Well I disconnected the pump outlet and nothing. I believe I have isolated it to the pump. I have one on order. Should be here in a couple of days.

Click to expand...

So is the guy who will figure it out still scheduled for tomorrow?

Pumps make a lot of noise. If you put voltage to the pump and you don’t hear it pumping then it’s dead. They are not quiet. No you can’t hear it over a starter or the engine. I just run a jumper wire from the battery right to the pump to trouble shoot it.

I always carry a spare fuel pump, belt and raw water impeller for the generator. The fuel pumps are cheap and often give you no warning before they fail.

It can be amazing how long it takes to fill injector lines by cranking an engine. Some pumps simply won't do it without being bled. Lots of time to hydrolock the engine. Best to get the fuel pump running electrically. However, my old Onan MDJE had no electric lift pump; so cranking it was about all I could do until I installed an electric pump which could pressureize any part of the fuel system of the three engines aboard.

BandB said:

So is the guy who will figure it out still scheduled for tomorrow?

Click to expand...

Delayed until Friday. Not surprised.

tiltrider1 said:

Pumps make a lot of noise. If you put voltage to the pump and you don’t hear it pumping then it’s dead. They are not quiet. No you can’t hear it over a starter or the engine. I just run a jumper wire from the battery right to the pump to trouble shoot it.

Click to expand...

This one has no noise and did the jumper wire.

tiltrider1 said:

I always carry a spare fuel pump, belt and raw water impeller for the generator. The fuel pumps are cheap and often give you no warning before they fail.

Click to expand...

I carry spare parts too. A lot. May have to add a pump to that box.

Yea, if you did not hear or feel that pump when jumped with 12v, it is probably pooped. Was engine room quiet enough to hear?

If suction was obstructed, it would still make a clicking noise or vibrate.

Ski in NC said:

Yea, if you did not hear or feel that pump when jumped with 12v, it is probably pooped. Was engine room quiet enough to hear?

If suction was obstructed, it would still make a clicking noise or vibrate.

Click to expand...

It was so quiet I could hear the rain hitting the water, No clicking or anything.

Wacket with a hammer and try it again. Even if this works its time to replace it. If you could hear rain out side then your pump is dead. When you get the new pump you should jump it before you install it. Every now and then one comes out of the box dead.

tiltrider1 said:

Wacket with a hammer and try it again. Even if this works its time to replace it. If you could hear rain out side then your pump is dead. When you get the new pump you should jump it before you install it. Every now and then one comes out of the box dead.

Click to expand...

LOL Yep the old hammer trick didn't work either!!

Great minds think a like. Definitely testing before install.

Tom, run over to the Portland airport, jump on a plane to Phoenix and let me know what your flight number is. I'll buy the first AA and we can forget about the darned thing for a bit.


OH, and don't forget to bring Kay.

Just playing devils advocate, did you check the earth on the pump, some are rubber mounted and will have an earth wire, if this corrodes it can give the same symptoms...

My generator is in a sound shield and inside the sound shield is a fire extinguisher. The electric fuel pump is wired thru that extinguisher and when I take the sound shield off to work on the engine, I need to unplug those wires going to that extinguisher. Doing that also disables the fuel pump. So if I want to run the generator with the sound shield off I need to jumper that plug so the fuel pump will work. Could anything similar be at work here?

We are now up and running again. New fuel pump and new feed and return fuel lines made. I let the pump run for a few minutes and after a few cranks it started right up. Feels good to trust your trouble shooting techniques you used on multi-million $$ aircraft.

Thanks to everyone that chimed in, especially SKI. Below is a pic of the old pump and new pump.

Tom, glad you got it going. All of us learned from this troubleshooting process, agonizing as it was for you. If there's any redemption, it's that you were home, at your dock as you worked through this. Much better than being many miles from nowhere in SE AK and having this problem.

Nice! Congrats!

Glad it is running again. Was afraid I was was gonna have to visit and give some adult supervision. Probably would have spent more at the Liquor store than the new parts though. Now get on with packing up for the trip north, and dont forget to light off that water maker before departure, ya never know........
Cheers!!!!

Ken E. said:

Tom, glad you got it going. All of us learned from this troubleshooting process, agonizing as it was for you. If there's any redemption, it's that you were home, at your dock as you worked through this. Much better than being many miles from nowhere in SE AK and having this problem.

Click to expand...

Ha how right you are. In 2016 and 2017 we discovered the genny HATES Friday Harbor. Genny broke down there both years.

What surprised me was that the pump was available from an RV website at half the cost of Onan...

https://anyrvparts.com/

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Ha how right you are. In 2016 and 2017 we discovered the genny HATES Friday Harbor. Genny broke down there both years.

Click to expand...

Bringing our new boat north in November we had issues and had to stay an extra day in Campbell River. When I talked to the previous owner about the issue, he said the only two times the boat had broke down for them in many, many years of cruising, both were in Campbell River.
I'm not sure if the boat is saying that it hates a particular place, or is trying to find ways to stay there longer because it likes it

Make sure your circuit breaker 20 amp red btoon on the engine has not popped .... High amp low voltage can cause it to pop.

alaskansea-Deduction

Thanks for the lessons learned, nice to learn from others far smarter than I. I usually respect quite a few opinions from guys I’ve followed for years (most know who they are) but ski has helped me out on mechanical problems before and even here he deserves expert status. Thanks to all.

So ASD, are you going to order a spare fuel pump?

hello capt, I had a westerbeke 8btd gen that would crank or not start and a few other things, after checking a few shut down devices, water. oil...my emergency stop switch which is a toggle switch, was bad/rotted out and in the closed position inside and was making go to a shutdown, no start...replaced the switch and it was good to go....hows yours doing...joe

Benchmark said:

Make sure your circuit breaker 20 amp red btoon on the engine has not popped .... High amp low voltage can cause it to pop.

Click to expand...

C/B checked. It was replace a couple of years ago. If the C/B was popped or bad the shutoff soliniod would not activate.

tiltrider1 said:

So ASD, are you going to order a spare fuel pump?

Click to expand...

LOL Yes it is on order!!!

A fellow yacht club member was tied up next to me at an island far north of Campbell River, BC. He was ending his vacation because his Generator wouldn’t run. I asked him if he had spare fuel filters for the Gen as it sounded to me like a clogged fuel filter. He said his mechanic had put together a spares box for him but he didn’t know what was in it. We opened the box and I found 3 raycor filters, 3 primary engine filters, 20’ of fuel line, temp sensor, oil sensor, circuit breaker, fuel pump, 2 belts, 2 raw water impellers and a roll of silicone tape. Turned out the problem was the fuel pump. I was so impressed by the spares package that I duplicated it for myself. The only thing I did different was the silicone tape, instead I stock 6’ of silicone hose in every size used on my boat.

Some times we get to learn at some one else’s expense.

tiltrider1 said:

A fellow yacht club member was tied up next to me at an island far north of Campbell River, BC. He was ending his vacation because his Generator wouldn’t run. I asked him if he had spare fuel filters for the Gen as it sounded to me like a clogged fuel filter. He said his mechanic had put together a spares box for him but he didn’t know what was in it. We opened the box and I found 3 raycor filters, 3 primary engine filters, 20’ of fuel line, temp sensor, oil sensor, circuit breaker, fuel pump, 2 belts, 2 raw water impellers and a roll of silicone tape. Turned out the problem was the fuel pump. I was so impressed by the spares package that I duplicated it for myself. The only thing I did different was the silicone tape, instead I stock 6’ of silicone hose in every size used on my boat.

Some times we get to learn at some one else’s expense.

Click to expand...

TR, What brand of silicone tape do you use?