dual bow rollers

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I'm finding it a very useful discussion.

This issue has come up for me because:
a) my primary CQR is at the end of its useful working life
b) because the original setup of the roller and winch are wrong. The chain does not have a straight pull through because of the angle between roller and winch wildcat. Its at an angle and the PO has tried to compensate for the when the anchor shank comes up over the roller it tries to pull off the s/s bowsprit track following the line of the chain to the wildcat. As there is no bail he has bolted two vertical aluminium "guides" to the front of the sprit. However these have over time got a bit mangled. So there is a fix to be made.
c) my bowsprit pulpit is 200mm (c. 8") wide so could accommodate a dual roller set up I think.
d) whilst Im new at anchoring Ive been doing a lot of reading and Earl Hinz says "When a boat sets two anchors it is said to be moored. The anchors may both be off the bow, or they may be fore and aft... There are several reasons why a skipper would want to moor rather than simply anchor (ie with a single anchor set). One is to reduce the size of the swinging circle so that more boats can be anchored in the same area. Another allows the boat to be moored in a narrow channel or close to a land mass. A third allows the boat to ride out a severe storm where excessive sheering or horsing of the boat may take place when riding on only one anchor. Moorings are advisable when anchoring in a tidal river... in marginal holding ground... (if) shelter is limited... if... the boat is left unattended for a while..."

In "the Complete Anchoring Handbook" by Alain Poiraud et al he is similarly emphatic on the benefits of dual anchoring.
e) I have aspirations when I retire in 6-12 months to start travelling up and down the east coast of Australia (Im in the southern state of Victoria at the moment) and it is a very long coast line with lots of bays, rivers, harbours etc where ther will undoubtedly be a diversity of sand, mud, rock coral sea beds. And tight and crowded anchorages depending on the time of year. Not to mention the odd storm.
f) whilst I have a V shaped snubber which I would use to run through both sides hawsers and tie off on the sampson post, I also have a single line snubber for less onerous occasions which would be easier to set up quickly and run over a second roller thus eliminatiing chafing with the anchor chain.

So it seems to me that there a quite a few logical reasons to get a dual set up. I must confess I am rather surprised at how few there seem to be out there. So I guess the real question is am I overthinking and over engineering this. Should I just get a single roller and and get over it?

The current setup is below:

Thanks again for your help.

Janis

Jan I think your ideas are sound indeed. Actually it looks like your set-up is very like mine. Even the winch is the same make I think, but a younger model. One of the mistakes often made is the winch in placed nicely in line with the pulpit bowsprit, which means the gypsy is not in the ideal alignment with the roller assembly. To achieve best alignment it is often necessary to mount the winch at a slight angle to achieve that. That fortunately is how mine is set up. You may want to consider that, then you could mount the Sarca roller in the best alignment with the winch and with enough room to one side for your secondary roller for the snubber, which I think is also an excellent idea.
I doubt you will ever miss the ability to mount another anchor on the bow, as your Excel will cope with virtually anything. A spare is advisable mainly for the possible event of a fouling bad enough to have to release/cut loose your main anchor, rather than because it won't hold well enough.

FF wrote:
The answer here is that you can have an anchor effective in all those substrates, and it's called a Sand And Rock Combination Anchor, = SARCA,

Advertising BS , no reality. " The check is in the mail" Yea right.

Click to expand...

FF, if I could, I'd send you one, and I just know you would eat your words.* I have no shares in the company - they are just damn good anchors, and I feel I have to spread the word.* Sorry if that bugs you.

Peter B wrote:

The answer here is that you can have an anchor effective in all those substrates, and it's called a Sand And Rock Combination Anchor, = SARCA, and even one called a ROCNA might do it...




Actually this should probably be moved to the Anchoring Board, or Eric might miss it.* Eric, where are you...?

Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for defining what SARCA means.* I have been wondering this for a long time.* I figured it was an acronym for the company itself but it never dawned on me it might be an acronym for the product description.

And I believe Eric is most likely involved in his move from Thorne Bay to Washington State.* I think he said they were moving to the litle mountain town of Concrete up the Skagit river valley but I may be misremembering that.* I believe he intends to keep Nomadwilly in La Conner which is south of Bellingham and Anacortes on the Swinomish Slough.

Peter
A key objective for this exercise is to ensure there is a straight pull through of the chain from roller to wildcat. So I could get a wide Sarca S/S roller assembly (150mm) and offset it a little on my 200mm bow pulpit so that the pull though is nearly straight or I could get a narrower one for the primary anchor ie 108mm on the starboard side as well as a smaller secondary 75mm wide S/S roller assembly on the port side Repositioning of the winch is not possible as the pulpit real estate is limiting and the drop of the chain into the deck entry point would be negatively affected.

Appreciating your help.

BTW for FF

I have no affiliation Sarca but Im told you can check out some Sarca anchors in the USA for yourself if you wish at

Joseph B. H. Smith
Director, Special Projects
SEACOR Environmental Products LLC (SEP)
9520 - 10th Avenue South, Suite 175,
Seattle WA 98108-5067 USA
-------------------------------------------------------
PH: +1-206-378-4101; FX: +1-206-378-4103
Mobile: +1-206-423-2661; SKYPE: sepseattle1
Email: jbhsmith@ckor.com
SEP Web Site: www.seacor-env.com
Corporate Web Site: www.seacorholdings.com STRENGTH IN DIVERSITY

Cheers
Janis

Here's my bow rollers:

Marin wrote:
Hey, thanks for defining what SARCA means.

Click to expand...

* * * * * Ditto....I had no clew.

Gulf Comanche
That looks like a great setup. Do you find that you set both anchors often?

I've never set both anchors; the one with rope rode is in exactly the same place as when I bought the boat 4 years ago. The other anchor has all chain rode and that is the one I use.

Our boat did not have a pulpit when we bought it. I did several mock ups in wood before finding what I thought best for us. I wanted a dual roller set up so we could always have the anchor ready to go. The second roller allows us to pick up a mooring without having to move anything. Note the bollard.

The first photo shows it under construction. We were making sure the 44# Delta fit the roller. Some modification was necessary. Construction is 1/4" 316L stainless. Not shown in these shots is the 1" diameter pipe (support strut?) going from the stem up between the rollers.

You can also see in the second image the windlass is directly in line with the roller. These shots were taken during winter storage so it is not as clean as usual. I have also since replaced the line holding the anchor with a locking lever.

Rob

37' Sedan

"I have no shares in the company"

Sorry , when steel bought for $200 a ton gets sold for as much per pound as a 747 , there is a good deal for stockholders.

My WWII Danforths have NEVER failed me , but I don't push the product.

ONE happy user does not make a great product.

In 60 years we will see if CQR and Danforth have been replaced by TONKA , SCARCA or ,,,,,,?

Ok, well, we'll have to agree to disagree FF, but I have had both CQR and Danforths fail me. I used a Danforth on my yacht, and found they could skid along the surface if it was a bit hard or weedy, or pick up stuff like cans on the fluke points. That latter issue happened several times in popular anchorages. However, I agree the design is basically sound for softish, non-weedy bottoms, but my main objection to them is their rather unwieldy shape for bowsprit roller deployment, especially once the weight gets up on a larger boat. Ok if you have an anchor hawse of course - like big ships - similar design.
As to CQR/plows...lots of people still use them...I'll stop there...

Rob, that bowsprit assembly you knocked up looks really businesslike and excellent.* I bet it works well.

Jan, I see what you mean about the sprit not being wide enough to move the winch.* Mine is wide enough the winch could be rotated around the chain drop hole, to angle it slightly towards optimum alignment.* Maybe you need to replace yours with something like Rob's, or with a wider thicker piece of timber.* Mine is almost a foot wide and is 2 & 1/2 inches thick, backing onto a Samson Post similar to yours.


-- Edited by Peter B on Tuesday 14th of February 2012 06:32:59 AM

Jan,
I wouldn't be too fussed about carrying 2 anchors up forward all the time.
If you have a quality heavy primary anchor and all cahin rode (we're talking east coast Aus here) you won't have many problems.
Carry at least 1 spare plough type anchor , doesn't have to be as heavy as your primary and also a good reef pick set up.
My anchor locker is set up in 2, one half carries all the primary anchor chain the other carries all the rope, chain, buoy and reef pick for the reef set up.
Double anchor set up I allways set as previously stated one behind the other, this requires planing ahead due to prior knowledge of strong wind.
Duel anchors off the bow have a tendancy to tangle IMO.

Now when you do head north you must come into Mooloolaba and we can compare engines or we may catch up further up the track.

Thanks guys a most helpful dialogue.

Benn I'd love to say hi in Mooloolaba in due course

Cheers
Janis