Keeping hoses from sticking to barbs

As part of winterizing our boat I would like to disconnect the raw water intake hoses from the strainer and connect a jug with non toxic antifreeze and run thru the raw water pump, heat exchangers, manifolds etc. Engines are closed system. There are also many other times for whatever reason a hose is needed to taken off a barb but is absolutely frozen on and cannot be removed without cutting the hose. Cutting would be ok if there is extra hose but that is usually not the case.
So the question is, can something be done, like lubricating, before a hose is installed to make it possible to be removed or is there some magical solution that I do not know about for removing a stuck hose besides a screwdriver?

I would use s waterproof grease

I use a Sea Flush to winterize my main engines. I can literally winterize each engine in less than 10 minutes. The longest time is to pour the antifreeze into a 5 gallon bucket to get sucked into the engine. I don’t have to take anything apart, just take the top off the strainer and remove the strainer basket. Insert the funnel into the open strainer and bungee it down. Hook a hose to the funnel and put the hose into the 5 gallon bucket then start the engine and watch the antifreeze get sucked into the engine. Simple to do.

Sil-glyde from Napa fits that bill and I use it for that:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7651351

It has a lot of uses, on automotive brake systems, as a dielectric grease, to protect rubber hoses and seals (doors, hatches), etc. It is in different packaging at other auto parts stores, but I rarely see it at marine stores.

There are tricks to getting a hose off the barb if it's a special molded or hard-to-get hose. You can spray Kroil or similar on it at the end a few times; it will work in over time (you have to be patient) and loosen it. Then it can usually be worked off gently by prying with an open-end wrench as a lever from the end on the barb. This will usually work and not destroy the hose like grasping it with pliers and pinching or twisting it will.

If I had to use grease, it would be silicone grease. Maybe that's what Terry started to type. Gotta be a bit careful with petrochemicals and rubber. Rather depends on the rubber. For instance, neoprene and EPDM don't do well near mineral oil and many "greases".

Rubber Chemical Resistance, Rubber Chemical Compatibility, Page 3 - Mykin Inc

Because we do not cruise in the winter, I have used 3-way valves on 3 of my last boats to winterize. I can winterize a 57' in approx 3-4 hours if I hustle. All raw & fresh water lines have them. It also makes it easy to flush salt with fresh if we are leaving for more than a few days.

Allan
Not sure if this solves your problem but I do winterize systems on our Mainship w/o removing hoses. I do it by removing the strainer & lid and fitting a rubber bung with Male NPT /hose barb & hose attached. For those systems that self prime I can draw pink AF from the jugs but for the AC pump I need to provide some head press by using a container placed above the pump level.
Here are the Pics...

For the fresh water system I usually blow out the lines & faucets w/ compressed air first so that when i see pink I have high confidence is is full strength and not being diluted.

I don’t think that system would keep up with my main engines. They suck a 5 gallon bucket empty in about a minute. However it would work for the A/C system and I have adapters for the other strainers that are very similar to what you have and they work well.

Thanks guys, I had thought of using a silicone lubricant Dow Corning 111 on new hoses but wondered if that could cause them to slip or worse, come off even if clamped tight?? Has anyone actually done this with no issues? So far as winterizing I was just trying to save some antifreeze by not having to fill the strainer and hoses down to the seacock, likely a gallon and perhaps more trouble than it's worth. I use a bucket with a hose and ball valve and just keep the strainer full. The admiral starts and stops the engines and we communicate with our headsets. I will likely better this procedure with some additional equipment like Comodave and Bacchus have pointed out. Thanks again.

Rectorseal #5

If you want to lube hoses to put them on or make them easier to take off, try automotive hand cleaner jelly. It works well and won't deteriorate rubber hoses.

Ted

Thanks for that one Diver.

Bendit,
Does NAPA have “Rectorseal #5” ?

I will also vote for Rectorseal #5. Been using it now for a number of years and the application will allow you to remove the hose. It won't be a slip off but it won't be stuck.

I strongly suggest NO to silicone grease. i tried that many years ago and the hose was so slippery it would work off. I won't use it anymore for that purpose. To be clear I do use it but not on my hoses.

Hose barbs doing their jobs...by design.

LaBomba said:

...also many other times for whatever reason a hose is needed to taken off a barb but is absolutely frozen on and cannot be removed without cutting the hose...can something be done, like lubricating, before a hose is installed to make it possible to be removed or is there some magical solution that I do not know about for removing a stuck hose besides a screwdriver?

Click to expand...

Short answer, no.

If you are having the same problem as many of us, you will notice that the edges of the barbs on your metal raw-water hose fittings and other seacocks are very sharp. No amount of grease or any lubricant is going to prevent those sharp-edged barbs from grabbing your rubber hose and holding it tight. You've already noticed that twisting the hose on the barb to break it loose does absolutely nothing. It's the barbs doing exactly what they were designed to do, pretty much the same principle as the barb on a fish-hook. If anything, lubricating will only make them cut in and grip even better.


Generally, these fittings are near or below the waterline, so this is a safety feature.

The answer is...don't do it. Each time you remove a hose from one of these barbed fittings (with a screwdriver, as you mentioned), you are stretching and damaging the hose (which is reinforced with cord, like a tire). These connections are not meant to be disassembled regularly.

Now...If you are draining the raw-water system carefully and completely, there really is no reason to put anti-freeze in there anyway. No manufacturer I have ever encountered recommends this. You already have antifreeze in your engine block (due to your closed cooling system), but be sure you've checked it with a hygrometer to ensure the freeze point is high enough for your area.

Make sure the drain-cocks are clear. Use a coat-hanger or stiff wire to go up through them to ensure they are drained. Obviously this is expecially critical with your heat exchangers.

Now...most manufacturers will recommend that you to remove the cover from the raw-water pump impeller housing. Good idea at this time to also remove the impeller, inspect it and set it aside for the winter. Impellers can take a 'set' when left for long periods of time with the vanes compressed.

If you REALLY want antifreeze in your raw-water system, after draining you could inject your antifreeze into the heat-exchanger via the zinc anode port -- I would think you would be pulling the anodes during winterization anyway, at least for inspection. Then...it should be very simple to make a hose fitting, screw it into the anode port, and use a couple of feet of hose and a funnel to ensure your antifreeze is flowing properly and flushing through the system. You would then see antifreeze running out of the water-pump impeller housing, this is ok. A little antifreeze in the bilge during winter is good.

In any case, you should ALWAYS drain the system first and NEVER rely solely on the raw-water pump to inject antifreeze into a 'wet' system. Unless you know exactly how much water is in there, you won't know your dilution ratio.

Same is true for your lift mufflers (assuming you have them). These must be DRAINED first, because they can hold a lot of raw water. I know this from painful personal experience -- previous owner of our 4788 tried to do a 'shortcut' winterization. Anti-freeze in one of the lift mufflers was too diluted. Froze and cracked the muffler, and it was leaking into the bilge.


Not a fun repair, trust me.

A "hose pick" gets hoses off of barbs easily when they are stuck. And they do not damage the hose.

A very useful set. Use them often! Lisle 80200 Hose Remover Set - 4 Piece https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0095HL710/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_7X3MCb982715E

Civilitas said:

Sil-glyde from Napa fits that bill and I use it for that:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7651351

It has a lot of uses, on automotive brake systems, as a dielectric grease, to ....

Click to expand...

Sil-glyde is 50% castor oil. If you study some threads about auto brake usage, many, many responses on long term stability issues of Sil-glyde.
MSDS sheets are very informative, if people will just look at them. I won't use it on anything critical.

Personally I would find a better way to pull on the hose to remove it - rather than lubricate the hose to fitting joint. Raw water hoses are often below the waterline.

You could install a Grocco bypass kit on the intake of each of your sea-strainers.

Here is what I do.

1) Put a small shutoff valve on the end of a garden hose

2) Take a short hose and cut off about 1 ft from the end that connects to the shutoff valve.

3) I close my seacock

4) Open the top of my sea strainer.

5) I stick the open (cut) end of the hose into the top of the seastainer. (The 1 foot of hose allows me to crack the shut off valve on the garden hose without spraying everywhere)

6) Have someone Start the engine

7) Crack the shutoff valve on the garden hose and tune it until the water level on the seastrainer is neither rising or lowering. (Input and Ouput are matched).

I do this to flush it in the fall and commission prior to launch in the spring.

Winterization:

1) Open at least 6-8 gallons of propylene glycol.

2) I cut the tops off so the opening is larger (but still being able to use the handle)

3) Make sure the seacock is closed

4) remove the cap to the sea strainer (If it isn't already).

5) grab 2 gallons of propylene glycol (one in each hand)

6) HAve someone start the engine.

7) Start pouring the first gallon.

8) As soon as the first gallon is done, start pouring the other gallon while reaching for a new gallon with the now empty hand.

9) keep switching back and forth between hands pouring until done. (Anyone who's ever poured a high volume of beer at a tap is familiar with this process

I like to use pink and the last two gallons I use Purple. This lets someone monitoring the discharge confirm that first, you're discharging pink, then discharging purple. Once purple is coming out, we shut down the engine.

It rarely takes 6-8 gallons, so I use the remainder on the next job (Head, A/C, washdown, etc).

diver dave said:

Sil-glyde is 50% castor oil. If you study some threads about auto brake usage, many, many responses on long term stability issues of Sil-glyde.
MSDS sheets are very informative, if people will just look at them. I won't use it on anything critical.

Click to expand...

I believe you are misunderstanding castor oil's interaction with rubber, or ... (not sure). It, along with the stabilizers and silicone, are strengths here.

Many decades of great success in the field with this product by multiple industries. I'm not sure what some internet "responses" you cite are counter-claiming.

Related: Liquid soap, like hand-soap or dish, is a GREAT thing for installing hoses. It will just have no value when removing them - it will oxidize to a hard crust/powder over time and effectively disappear. Widely valued in the glass installation trade for that reason.

The hose welding itself in place is extra insurance should auto hose clamps rust out.

The hose removal tools do a great job , are quick and don't damage the hose.

A heat gun can assist with hose removal. I dont carry a heat gun so I use a hair dryer. Seems to work fine.

I've thought about this. My thoughts are to use a T with a 1/4 turn ball valve, to connect a temporary hose, at the strainers and filters to run the antifreeze solution through the plumbing systems. Also, compressed air can be used to blow water out of the fresh water system. It would be nice if boats could be plumbed so that the fresh water system completely drains to one low spot to evacuate the system for storage. This is not always possible though.


Also, good old WD40 with the straw can be worked under the hose edge and sprayed around the hose. Working the hose back and forth will usually loosen the hose from the barb.

keep hoses from sticking is easy, I use Rectorseal T plus 2.
Has the benefit of also helping to seal hose to the fitting.

Why suffer with wrecking hoses to get things apart when it is so easy to prevent hose damage. I started using it when I ripped or cracked a soldered fitting right out of a heat exchanger getting a stuck hose loose.
And getting exhaust hoses off risers really meant good chance of wrecking the hose. It was always a pain to work the hose free.

As many have said I would stay away from lubricating hose connections. That's just asking for trouble. I would also stay away from prying hoses off with picks and screw drivers. Even if you don't damage the hose, you might damage the barbs which could create a leak. The best method, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, is to use a heat gun. Be patient and keep the heat gun moving until the rubber is very warm or hot to the touch. This expands the rubber and softens it up to the point where you can wiggle it off. This may take some time with thick walled intake hoses. For winterizing however, try to avoid removing hoses at all. I just drain my raw water system at the heat exchanger and lift muffler and then pour about 10 liters of pink plumber's antifreeze directly into the strainer (with the intake seacock closed of course) while the engine is running. This will dilute or displace any remaining water. Have everything ready to go when you start your engine so your impeller doesn't run dry for more than a few seconds. Don't forget to fog your engine before shutting it down though.

Goto Harbor Freight or Amazon and get two sets of picks; small which has the diameter of a coat hanger and large which has the diameter of a pencil. Circle the pick 360-degrees around the hose and then twist the hose. It’ll break free every time. If then it won’t come off the barbs, use a heat gun to soften the rubber. Easy peasy.

why not just fill the strainer

jleonard said:

A "hose pick" gets hoses off of barbs easily when they are stuck. And they do not damage the hose.

Click to expand...

Absolutely the best way to go! I'd never be comfortable putting any goop on a hose barb with the intention of making it easier to remove.

jleonard said:

A "hose pick" gets hoses off of barbs easily when they are stuck. And they do not damage the hose.

Click to expand...

I wish you'd told that to the hose from our holding tank macerator to its thru-hull.

Took me the better part of an hour (day before yesterday) to get that sucker off that one barb, with hose pick, heat gun, eventually cut-off wheel on a Dremel... and I'm still feeling the bruises and stray cuts all over my hands, etc.

Luckily this was as part of a hose replacement, 'cause the old one was severely mangle in the process -- by the hose pick, even before I went to find the Dremel.

-Chris

Chris, that's too bad about your difficulty with that sewage hose, but I have never had that happen when dealing with the really robust, wire wound exhaust hoses and that ilk. Without the pick, it's a cut-off wheel job being VERY careful to avoid damaging the hardware with the wheel.