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ohno3kids

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Hi guys; I'm new to this forum. I'm 2 years from turning 60, and seeking guidance on my early retirement plan. Except for pulling kids behind 22' ski boats the past 15 years, I have no boating experience. I've been "hanging around the (trawler) rim" for many years, reading most Passagemakers and occasional on-line research. My hope in 2 years is to (1) sell our house and buy a 15-20 year old 60'-65' trawler at $400k-$500k, (2) pay a seasoned captain to train me for 3-4 months, then (3) spend a year cruising the Caribbean, then 6 months traveling thru the Panama Canal to the US west coast, then 6 months cruising up to Alaska (always staying close to shore). My preference is a fuel efficient 3-cabin steel trawler (a la Cape Horn or Real Ships), but I'll likely consider fiberglass/aluminum rather than sacrifice fuel burn. For a newby, is this scenario even possible/reasonable? If so, what on-line courses should I focus on for the next 2 years to prepare? Thanks for the advice.
 
ohno:


Your plan is a bit ambitious. You could do what you propose but there is a high likelihood of getting the wrong boat for you, selling it while wasting a lot of money and then finally buying the boat that fits your needs which will probably have changed.



I would first start with a modest size trawler like an older Grand Banks 36 or a newer Mainship 34/350/390. You could buy one of these for about $150K. Then use it during the last few years of your work life to develop your boating skills and zero in on what your really want when you retire.


And FWIW a 15-20 YO steel, 60-65' trawler will probably be hard to find. There is ony one that meets those criteria currently on Yachtworld in the US and it is listed for $650K: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/cape-horn-ch63-3210994/



David
 
Ohno, your plan sounds like a heck of a lot of fun and a great way to head into retirement!
You're bound to get LOTS of opinions on this thread so sit back and enjoy! I'd start by saying you don't necessarily need 60 to 65' LOA, but perhaps somewhere in the range of 40' to 50' for that kind of cruising. One of the toughest parts of that journey will be the long stretch of open Pacific from San Fran to the strait of Juan De Fuca into the Salish sea. For this you just need good training, very good weather prediction, and patience, though its worth it as the PNW is absolutely beautiful.


To your question; the common national on line resource is US Power Squadrons, website Here.
Its pretty decent training, can do all on line, ends in a test and provides you with a completion certificate. This and other proofs of training will be helpful for getting insurance on your boat.
Other than general rules and boat handling, again I'd strongly suggest a course in marine weather prediction.

Many states also have their own optional training course that can result in a "boating license" of some sort; also helps knowledge and typically not expensive.
Finally if you don't have one, its handy to have your own copy of the "bible" of seamanship; Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship".
 
I would hang around some people that own trawlers to get a feel for what you want. While I am not a real fan anymore of Trawler Fests, for a newby they may prove worth while. Take as many courses as you can from the CG Aux or Power Squadron.

I would also recommend buying the boat you want to end up with first. Buying a “learners” boat first will cost you dearly with depreciation and fixing up the learner boat. Your plan of having a captain teach you is a good one. Just go slow with the large boat and learn how to handle it properly. Sometimes a larger boat is almost easier to handle than a smaller one. But you do have to remember momentum with a larger heavier boat can be exciting. Don’t let people tell you not to go for your dream, just learn how to accomplish your dream safely.
 
Think about this second line in the listing noted above: "[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Present owners plans have changed so she is priced to sell quickly."[/FONT]
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You need to learn 3 things. Boat handling, navigation, and safety (that covers many things). Most yachties never learn boat handling. Docking to them is a controlled crash. With a big boat, that method is expensive. You can get books about handling the configuration you're looking to buy, twin or single screw. Read them and know the material before hands on. Learn how docking lines are used to secure your boat and aid in docking.

There are books and classes on navigation. If you're going offshore it's good to know real navigation and not just depend on electronics. You don't need to know how to shoot stars, but should have backup devices should something fail.
Safety is knowing when it's not safe to dock, if your anchor will hold, knowing your boats systems, understanding weather. At sea there's no fly in mechanics. If something important fails, you need to know how to fix it. You especially need to know your engines, fuel system, and electrical systems. If you're dead in the water, far out to sea, the Coast Guard may come and get you. But if they're busy, and you have a big boat, they may send a commercial tug. Better have good insurance.
I solo an 83' boat most of the time. I do that by planning. When I dock my lines are out and ready. My spring line, the first over, is usually tied off at the proper length. I'm aware of wind and currents and sometimes realize it's not safe to dock.
You don't need a captain for 3 months. You need several days of docking practice in different situations. In an open area you should use different rudder and engine combinations and see the effect. Find an empty city guest dock and land there several times. If there's a current, from both directions. In a few weeks, with a real effort, you'll dock your boat as well as I do mine.
Don't yell at your line handlers, especially your wife. Explain ahead of time how you will dock and what lines to put over.

If you want a detailed conversation, pm me.
 
Welcome aboard TF.
I will second sledge's comment re USPower Squadron now known as Americas Boating Club. They offer an extensive list of boating courses from a basic intro to advanced piloting and celestial navigation plus many electives... engine maint, electronics, weather, etc. Many groups are now offering on-the-water components of many courses.
In addition to some excellent value courses (volunteer instructors and you pay for course materials) you will build a network of other boaters that share your interests.
Good luck with your adventures
 
Anything is possible if you fork over the Benjamins! Btw, 15 years of pulling kids on waterskis is still some experience. Lol. Some folks have ZERO water time at all. Ahem, Ahem....like me 4 years ago.
 
I strongly recommend that you charter several different boats, and at least one for some duration, before jumping in with both feet. Many of the charter companies will let you take some instructive courses and then charter with a captain. After one you can do it on your own.

Best way to learn what you like and don't like. We did something like this and it's served us well.
 
Not to sound flippant or anything, but GO FOR IT!

What you have outlined is totally doable. I'm not saying there aren't many potential pitfalls, but just because they are there does not mean you will fall into them.

Dream big, I say. Just be realistic and willing to listen to people you can trust. Which means take what we say here with a grain of salt!
 
I think it is absolutely possible. Pat yourself on the back for making a sensible plan and asking for advice.

Take the USCG Auxiliary or Power Squadron courses. I am not sure what is online because I took mine in 1984. Next, and this will be at a school, take an approved USCG “captains” course, either the Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels course (OUPV, commonly called the six-pack for six or fewer passengers) or Masters course. You do not need to qualify for the license with the CG to pay and take the course, and you will get some great navigation work, rules of the road proficiency, and networking experience.

There are many good “instructing” captains out there. I think finding the right fit, from an experience and personality standpoint, will get you to your goal. He/she can get you up to speed with systems on the actual vessel you select, followed by boathandling, mooring, anchoring, safety drills, etc. A good training captain should be able to lay out a detailed lesson plan before you hire them.

A little off-topic...You mention a steel boat, and I don’t mean to steer you away from a dream. You may know that the resale market for steel boats you speak of is very soft in the U.S. I encourage you to think about your exit strategy as you shop for the right boat. Perhaps it is not a concern, and that is fine too.

Chartering will be an important step to help you discover what your spouse likes :thumb:.

Finally, latch on to a couple of mentors for which to serve as a sounding boards.

It is highly unlikely that you will regret making this journey - if you have the means and discipline, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Good Luck!
 
Also, Comodave mentioned Trawlerfest. I know some people say the fests are not nearly as good as they used to be but for someone starting out like this, I really think the Trawlerfests are still extremely valuable for two reasons: 1) the seminars are great for learning, and 2) it can give you a chance to walk aboard many different styles of boats...
 
Thanks for the feedback. I'll get going on the Power Squadron courses, and plan to charter a couple of times over the next 2 years.

David - what is your concern about the sentence in the Inace listing: "Present owners plans have changed so she is priced to sell quickly." It looks like a nice boat, though I am 2 years out from purchasing anything.

Jeff - I'm curious about your thoughts: "the resale market for steel boats you speak of is very soft". I don't see many out there, but I thought that was a function of there being very few produced. I think a steel boat will be more forgiving of my newby screw-ups (scraping bottom) than fiberglass. Are buyers generally skeptical of steel because of higher rust potential?

Thanks guys.
 
I’m going to go a bit against the herd. I think. 60+ foot boat is a bit ambitious for you at this stage. The worst way to start this stage of your life is to get in over your head and find yourself in a situation that frightens you (and/or your crew) and ends up cutting your plans short.

I suggest that you start with something in the 40 to 45 foot range, twin engines, thruster(s) if possible. Take it slow for a couple of years and get completely comfortable. That will also let you figure out exactly what you want in a boat.

Then, when you’re completely comfortable and confident, step up to a bigger boat.

I know whereof I speak. I spent many years on boats up to 30’. That was a great foundation for larger boats, but not a substitute for driving larger boats. We bought a Defever 44, then a Defever 50. After a few years on the 50, we’re ready for a 60 to 65.

That program makes every step fun, without overwhelming. Plus, at 60 you have plenty of time.
 
Hi guys; I'm new to this forum. I'm 2 years from turning 60, and seeking guidance on my early retirement plan. Except for pulling kids behind 22' ski boats the past 15 years, I have no boating experience.

Wifey B: You'd be amazed how useful that experience is. :) Then similarly amazed how little you know. :eek:

I've been "hanging around the (trawler) rim" for many years, reading most Passagemakers and occasional on-line research. My hope in 2 years is to (1) sell our house and buy a 15-20 year old 60'-65' trawler at $400k-$500k, (2) pay a seasoned captain to train me for 3-4 months, then (3) spend a year cruising the Caribbean, then 6 months traveling thru the Panama Canal to the US west coast, then 6 months cruising up to Alaska (always staying close to shore). My preference is a fuel efficient 3-cabin steel trawler (a la Cape Horn or Real Ships), but I'll likely consider fiberglass/aluminum rather than sacrifice fuel burn. For a newby, is this scenario even possible/reasonable? If so, what on-line courses should I focus on for the next 2 years to prepare? Thanks for the advice.

Wifey B: You have to decide how much time and effort and money you're willing to spend. A captain isn't going to train you to do those things in 3-4 months. Besides at that size boat and your age, you're likely to need some crew ongoing. You're emphasizing helmsmanship but maintaining such a boat is a real effort. You're also not going to learn it all online.

If your plan above was my plan, I'd start legitimate captain training right now, at least at a 6 pack level. I'd plan on a captain at least the first two years of cruising and after that perhaps a deck hand. You also may need diesel training. See, it's all possible at a price. Either recognize all that is needed or reduce the size boat and/or scope of cruising.

My hubby and I are both licensed captains now with 6 1/2 years of coastal and off shore experience covering around 100,000 nm and we don't do all that on our own without others with mechanical skills we lack. We're fine coastal cruising alone and cruising anywhere with support.

Are you willing to immerse yourself into learning as opposed to casual? :ermm: That's what it takes. Days of courses, days of hands on training, months and years of growth in your new profession. :eek: Did I say "new profession?" Yes, ma'am, I did. See, hubby was a career business exec and I was a career educator and he had his degree and I had all of mine and yet this was an entire new "career." Although not our career and we'll never have the experience those who have made it careers have, we treated it as such because our goals were ambitious. :D

Your goals are ambitious and either you must treat it like a new career or reduce your goals a bit. We've been all the places you mention but not to most of them alone. Today, we could do them in a 60'-65' alone, but we'd worry when 20 hours from shore about engine issues, and we'd sure get help cleaning the boat when we reached a marina and we'd never attempt to do all our own maintenance.

Perhaps I'm exaggerating some of the challenge a bit, but that's to offset what you're seeing as much simpler than it is. After online courses and 3-4 months of training, I wouldn't have dared to head to the Caribbean alone. Most people buying a boat that age don't even get all the bugs worked out in that time.

The typical retired cruiser:
-considers leaving the mainland for the Bahamas a crossing. Has never ventured to the Caribbean or through the Panama Canal or to Alasks.

A few here:
-Have crossed the oceans of the world and done it in small and big boats with others and alone.

But the ocean crossers and the large boat handlers and the Panama Canal types are fewer than 5% of TF. Likely more like 2%. If you're committed, then go to be part of that 2% but just understand all it takes to get there. I can tell you it's a wonderful new way of life. :D

Now, one final word. Before you ditch the house and put that amount of money in a boat that could be a floating money pit or worse and you might end up hating, go charter. Start learning a week at a time on charters. Don't tell me it's expensive either as chartering occasionally doesn't approach the cost of ownership. Find out how you really feel about it. Learn what you can from the charter captain. If you love it like I do, you'll be hooked deep and forever. But you could be like Toocoys and avoid a major mistake. :confused:
 
Jeff - I'm curious about your thoughts: "the resale market for steel boats you speak of is very soft". I don't see many out there, but I thought that was a function of there being very few produced. I think a steel boat will be more forgiving of my newby screw-ups (scraping bottom) than fiberglass. Are buyers generally skeptical of steel because of higher rust potential?

Thanks guys.

I observe steel boats on the market for what seems like an exceedingly long time before they move along. We considered a few along the way, but a paint job alone requires deep pockets. I recall a Kristen and a Vripak, both BEAUTIFUL vessels with nice to premium equipment, that were listed a long time while the more mainstream fiberglass boats were moving. They seem to be more popular in Europe. I have never owned one and I am not saying they are bad, but there is a different set of considerations with them to be sure.
 
what is your concern about the sentence in the Inace listing: "Present owners plans have changed so she is priced to sell quickly."

I'm not speaking for djmarchand, however I will offer why I agree with him and what appears to be the minority....

That seller is doing a short sale and losing money because his plans changed. That was an expensive change of mind.

Going from a runabout to a 60-65 ft boat is like going from a pedal car to a tractor trailer. OR, a bicycle to a race bike. Yes, a casual observation will yield many similarities, but the learning curve is steep and unforgiving.

While there are many examples of successes, I estimate there are far more examples of failures. I've seen many people jump into a large boat as a first boat, only to become so scared of it, it never leaves the dock.

You won't find those people here. Those who slinked down the dock with their tail between their legs and a check too small to cover their expenses in their pocket. You won't hear from those people, because they've since moved on.
 
Oh no...

My wife and I looked at boats in the 60-75' range for two years before buying a 64' 2002 Grand Banks Aleutian.

If you do not have any recent experience on a boat of this size the insurance company will require you have a qualified captain on board for some period of time. Ours was 100 hour requirement. The captain must certify your capability to safely handle the boat to the insurance company before they release the requirement to have a Coast Guard certified captain on board.

Handling the 64' GB with only a bow thruster and twin diesels takes a little practice. The boat responds very well in all situations. The biggest challenge is reading winds and currents and knowing what to do when. Again this takes practice which takes time.

The biggest challenge however is understanding and maintaining all of the systems and components of the boat. This is a steep learning curve because if you don't know how it works you can't identify and fix a problem.

My wife and I spent almost 2 years shaking down, repairing and upgrading the boat. With the exception of a couple of months in the northern Bahamas we were cruising the east coast from the Chesapeake to Key West and spending a fair amount of time and monies in boatyards along the east coast and immersing ourselves in boating courses, discussions and literature.

We are now well into the Caribbean (Antigua) with confidence in our boat, our knowledge and our skills that we can enjoy this part if life's journey.

There is still much to experience and learn but I feel we can now work from a strong foundation.

Good luck with your endeavors.
 
I have to disagree with the experience issue when relaterd to size of vessels.


It's more,sports user (fishing, skiing, tubing, etc) or day tripper versus long distance cruiser.


I have many friends that have boated locally for 50 years and can boat handle well and understand "local" boating pretty well.


But when discussing long distance cruising "out of their area"....they are clueless.


Now... some do expand their knowledge base by reading...but the vast majority are too busy with other life issues to really even know what they don't know.


From teaching captains licensing, it REALLY showed me how little even local charterboat "professional" catains know about cruising and boating in general.


So expect to learn at a rate that seems like drinking from a fire hose.


For every "go for it" discussion and story about a total newbie getting away with successful cruising.... there is a sad story mirroring the same.


As long as you know there is a lot to absorb, you will be fine....it's not hard stuff....just a lot.
 
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For every "go for it" discussion and story about a total newbie getting away with successful cruising.... there is a sad story mirroring the same.


As long as you know there is a lot to absorb, you will be fine....it's not hard stuff....just a lot.

Wifey B: That's what drives me wild at sailor's forums where they talk about the person with no experience sailing around the world. Duh, the one who drowned along the way doesn't ever post. :eek:

Not generally do failed efforts result in death but there are many sad stories. Did the wind gust of reality already blow ohno3kids away? Was he really looking for guidance or a cheering section? i felt like his one post responding to us really showed he was listening but now that we haven't heard from him in 10 days, I wonder. Where or where have you gone? :confused:

If you really want to do this, start immersing yourself in the learning process today. :)
 
So you hit one of my pet peeves, Brentwood, where is that. People deal with info and assume some one in New Zealand or England or Alaska know what the person is talking about, but to the person it is clear - "Brentwood, you know, Brentwood, everyone knows where it is." I googled it assuming it is in the States, which it apparently is, but also in Burnaby BC, just saying. I don't mean this in a heavy handed way, but the reason I googled it was to add some contectuality to my advise.

First I agree, don't settle on what you think you might need, but start your journey into boating now. If you live in the Brentwood in Washington DC then go get yourself 28 - 30 express cruiser or trawler and start the adventure now. You will find much to learn, from the ever fun anchor discussions, gas versus diesel, etc but none of the information is difficult to learn, there's just so much of it. Two burner stove or three or four burner stove, propane to run your stove or all electric. If all electric how are you going to get your power, shore only, gen set, fuel cell, solar, wind turbine, water turbine, and the list goes on and on and on.

The boat you purchase now will help inform you on what is important later, is a trawler too slow, do you want something faster, can your wallet or your brain handle the economics of a faster large boat. If you are considering 65 feet and metaphorically speaking want to follow along the lines of the Fleming Venture, and if so do you really want to do much boating in open water, away from the coast, thinking larger rolling waves, storms to put the fear of god into you, and basically the same view for days at end?

You think you know the answers to the above questions but experience will modify your vision. So focus on the experience you can begin to acquire now. But if you enjoy the lifestyle, you will thoroughly enjoy the learning.

And lastly, after watching many Fleming Venture blog videos of course I'd love a 65 footer. But I thought I'd give you my reasoning for not wanting one after all (please note, I don't have the money for one and all its ensuing costs). For me and my wife, having only two to handle a boat that size is a no-go. There is no way as I age that I would not hire people to run the boat. But for me, running the boat, the galley, the everything is part of boating. Yes I would stand watches at three and four in the morning (ex Navy).

Julia Andrews of Sound of Music fame used to own a large yacht with crew. She would send the boat out from England to arrive in Campbell River BC. Then Julia would fly out from Jolly Old E and meet up with the boat to go to Desolation Sound, the Broughtons, Alaska, etc. For me that isn't the kind of boating I want to do, I would want to bring the boat from England to Campbell River, but for Julia, I'm sure she was thrilled with her experience.

Do I want to hire people to work the boat, for me and my thinking, if I was hiring, a minimal of 3 would be best on a 65 boat. But I don't want to be involved with business, and hiring and being responsible for another person's well being in a fiduciary relationship is business. Boating for me is a "no business" event. What if I don't like one or more of the people, what if they don't like me?

Where am I going to moor such a large boat, in my part of the world, this is a real issue. And I don't want to moor my boat far enough away from the cruising areas I enjoy so that getting there and returning is a hassle (translation: time). I want to be almost there in my car, then finish it off on the boat.

Many marinas have limited space for larger vessels, much more so where I am, maybe not so much where you are. So "for me," smaller is better than bigger.

And this last issue is something that only some will relate to, but its my connection with the ocean underway on smaller boats. When I took a ten day cruise from Baltimore, I and my family were on the 10th deck or something like that, spent most of the day enclosed or really unable to visually connect to the ocean.

On the Canadian destroyer I was on back oh so many decades ago, I was on a ship with no portholes. Unless you were on the bridge, in so many ways you weren't connected to the water:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Chaudière_(DDE_235)#/media/File:HMCS_Chaudiere_1964.jpg

But when canoeing, sailing boats under 40 feet and currently on my 29 foot express cruiser, I'm only five or six feet above the water, I feel connected. I'm not sure I would have that same connectedness on a 65 foot vessel. This feeling is somewhat akin to those who prefer to cruise at 7 knots, they want to see what is going on, not feel they are some kind of metaphorical Interstate trying to get somewhere fast.

But this is me and not you, you need to find out who you are.
 
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To the OP, I don't hear about it as much here, as on the RV forums, but it you are thinking about going from no boat to "full time" make sure that you have an 'exit' plan.

Maybe you will find that a 60' - 65' boat to be everything you ever dreamed of. Or, maybe said boat will be too big or too small, or maybe either you or your wife will tire of the live-aboard life style after 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, whatever.

Sometimes when we follow our dreams, real life exceeds our wildest expectations, and I hope that is the case for you and your wife. It would be prudent, however, to have a plan in case this doesn't happen.

Jim
 
To the OP, I don't hear about it as much here, as on the RV forums, but it you are thinking about going from no boat to "full time" make sure that you have an 'exit' plan.

Part of that is one's own tolerance of risk. I'm in agreement with you. I always have an exit plan, a contingency plan. Always a Plan B. I wouldn't be comfortable otherwise. Yet, I know people who never consider the "what if's" and just merrily go on their way.
 
One more thing. In the first post you write, "My hope in 2 years is to (1) sell our house and buy a 15-20 year old 60'-65' trawler at $400k-$500k, (2) pay a seasoned captain to train me for 3-4 months."

Maybe its just an oversight in your post, but when I take my powerboat classes (I will be moving up from a sailboat to a boat with twin inboards), my wife will be taking several of the courses together with me. Whatever boat we buy, most likely a 35' - 40' express cruiser, I want her to be comfortable on board.

Although I may take additional maintenance course(s), my expectations is that she learn to drive the boat and learn to navigate as well.

Jim
 
Bad idea, unless $$ is absolutely no issue.Putting all that money into something you'll use for 3-5 years at best and watch it depreciate while spending $20k or more in maintenance and dockage is not wise. Like the other sane blogs advise, get a 30-42 MAX. Remember at marinas, its not all about the footage charge, its tough to get any slip with a big boat without well advance notice. And these Dockmasters and dock hands get greased pretty good, as it should be, thats just the way it goes. So get ready $$$$
 
One more thing. In the first post you write, "My hope in 2 years is to (1) sell our house and buy a 15-20 year old 60'-65' trawler at $400k-$500k, (2) pay a seasoned captain to train me for 3-4 months."

Maybe its just an oversight in your post, but when I take my powerboat classes (I will be moving up from a sailboat to a boat with twin inboards), my wife will be taking several of the courses together with me. Whatever boat we buy, most likely a 35' - 40' express cruiser, I want her to be comfortable on board.

Although I may take additional maintenance course(s), my expectations is that she learn to drive the boat and learn to navigate as well.

Jim

Captain Wifey B was just as much involved as I was. Every course together, every day of on board training together.
 
Bad idea, unless $$ is absolutely no issue.Putting all that money into something you'll use for 3-5 years at best and watch it depreciate while spending $20k or more in maintenance and dockage is not wise. Like the other sane blogs advise, get a 30-42 MAX. Remember at marinas, its not all about the footage charge, its tough to get any slip with a big boat without well advance notice. And these Dockmasters and dock hands get greased pretty good, as it should be, thats just the way it goes. So get ready $$$$

We don't know the rest of his financial. Maybe the home he wants in the future can be purchased for $200k and he has that in the bank. I absolutely don't agree with the 30-42' Max as if I'm going to use it as my home I want more. I want to be able to invite many guests. When we did the loop, we always had 5-7 aboard. You do need to get dockage for big boats in advance, those over 200'. There's no problem finding dockage for 50-70'. Only challenge is monthly or more in winter in Fort Lauderdale but that's regardless of size. As to dockmasters and dock hands, if $5 or $10 or even $20 is a serious issue then one shouldn't own a 65' boat. The term "greased" is derogatory and makes it sound illicit in some way.

My bigger caution on a 65' is the amount of work required and one must be prepared to do it themselves or pay to get it done. If we were doing it ourselves, we'd have a smaller boat than that.

That's where something doesn't work in that model equation though. If we say:
-I can't live on less than 60'.
-I'm not going to do the work all myself on a 60'+
-I'm not going to pay others to do the work

Then we must compromise on one of those three issues as they're mutually exclusive. If we compromise then we must deal with the consequences.
 

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