Upper or Lower Helm Station Use

I have a 34 Californian. It has an upper and lower helm. I drive at the upper helm when picking up a mooring or docking when I have crew aboard. When I get underway and have the Auto Pilot on course I will move to the lower helm to be with the wife in the salon and have coffee. When I go to Catalina Island it is a 4 hr trip for me. If I am solo I will drive from the lower helm when docking and picking up mooring. I have a side door at the lower helm which gives me access to the deck to handle lines.

Similar to many here, use Flybridge almost exclusively. It’s fully enclosed - so even chilly days, the enhanced views and, dare I say - quietness - cannot be beat.

That aside, to the specific question. If I knew I would be mostly or quite frequently single handed, I’d sure strongly prefer a side door as to going without. Especially if wind and current are frequent impacts to docking or getting underway. Even with my twin engines, I frequently will utilize a spring line when leaving a tight pump-out dock we frequent that also has tide, wind and other boat traffic. That side door/lower helm on my Mainship 390 was fantastic at that point.

I also vote for two side deck doors from the pilothouse being preferable to a flybridge. If only one door then it should be port side.

My big 65ft, which I usually single handed, I would dock bow-in from the flybridge for visibility, but for stern-in it would be from the pilothouse where the view aft was better. However since it was 60 tons it did not drift too much so I had time to reach the dock and tie lines. If you're looking at a light fiberglass trawler with lots of windage then quick access to the deck and dock are very important.

Honestly, I have a sliding door on port and starboard but only use the starboard, closest to the wheel when by myself. Keep your wipers in good working order however if you plan to steer from lower helm and get a GPS with either two screens or wifi for when you are down below.

Good luck and happy cruising.
Rick

Upper or Lower Helm

When choosing to operate your vessel from the bridge or wheelhouse is a big decision. Climate & visibility aside, the choice is an important one.
Prior, prep, prevents poor performance. Flybridge operation gives goo vantage, but additional steps for docking. Wheelhouse gives better access for line handling. I’ll mentally prep I’m outside until late November. Keeping binoculars, note pads & Equiptment at the ready. I’ll move inside when the mercury dips and hold up camp where climate is controlled. Mother’s Day I’ll move my gear back up to the alfresco location.
But knowing where I stand and why takes all the guesswork out. On Swift Trawler, all docking is to starboard as per vessel design. Asometric offset of house, makes Dockmaster & crew comfortable without direction. Running the boat from the Flybridge is the best. I need to live where it’s warm year round.... and vacation where the mercury dips.

MT 34 aft cabin 90% below

Our cruising grounds in Maine provide enough consisent to discourage the full fly bridge covers, below decks station is comfortable for our low speed cruising, starboard station and gate just outside make for ready access to dock or tend anchor. Notably, even with an abundance of lobster trap bouys, visibility from the lower station is better, the bow flare obstructs close vision, and a step outside confirms “close but no foul” situations in real time.

Diligent

Er consistent wind that os

We have a Helmsman 38. 4200 engine hours entirely from Pilothouse. Bridge is nice for drinks with friends in the evening. We cruise between Fl and New England or Canada seasonally. We spend a lot of time in pot infested waters of the Chesapeake, Albemarle, Florida Bay, etc. we find that the Pilothouse is nicer in Hot weather. There is a good breeze and no sun. We have been through hundreds of locks, and the midship Pilothouse door means easy access to either side. We always back into slips.

Upper or Lower Helm

I operate a Mainship 350/390 year-round in the Pacific Northwest. I have a completely enclosed bridge and always operate the boat from there. Visibility is the main reason but there is also more room for crew/guests to interact with the helmsman. I have installed a lexan front viewing panel and a windshield wiper for those odd days we get rain up here.
I have access to the starboard side deck from the lower helm position and operate the boat from the lower helm when docking, either bow in or bow out, starboard side. This gives me the best visibility of my distance from the dock, enables me to hand a spring line to a dock attendant and to visually see if the Admiral has been able to step off with the stern line.
My home base is a boathouse so I use the upper position when entering or leaving. It gives me the beat view of where the bow and the astern are (it is a fairly narrow fairway) and allows me to stop the boat before I hit the end of the boathouse. Getting down from the upper helm in the boathouse to tie up is not a problem as there is no need to hurry.
Enjoy.

We're ICW Great Loop cruisers and use marinas whenever possible, so port and starboard doors are essential for our style boating.

Imagine that you're approaching a lock single handed. The lock master tells you to use a bollard on the port side. You lay the boat up against the side with the mid-ship cleat next to the bollard. With the winds and other boats in the lock, you've got 5 - 7 seconds to step away from the helm, drop the line on and bring it back to the helm with you. Try that without a port side door.

On the loop, we always approached the locks from the lower helm because it was so easy to see what you're doing, and could easily tie port or starboard because we had port and starboard doors.

During nice weather, we always drove from the upper helm and during inclement weather, and when locking (and sometimes when docking), from the lower helm. We had a DeFever 44+5 CPMY.

In my opinion, port and starboard doors are essential, especially if you have to single hand the boat.

For those who've been in the soup, or looking for markers, watching boats, and trying to stay in a narrow channel, you understand how important it is to have all eyes on look out.

Finally, on the Defever we had stairs out of the salon and a short ladder to the fly bridge from the aft sundeck. Today, we're a lot older and would prefer not to have to climb any ladder, so we're shifting to a pilothouse without an upper helm, but with port/starboard doors.

Currently, we're running around in a great little island hopper Albin 28 Tournament Express and will soon be looking at an American Tug or a Nordic Tug for our next cruising adventures.

Or is essential

This thread illustrates a important point , despite your preference, any boat you’ll sell must have the option available. Folks who have a preference really have a preference.

Diligent had unreadable gauges on the bridge since we bought and rehabbed her throughout 8 years ago, this year the new panel goes in before we list at the end of season.

The bridge is a comfortable place to feed 6 and drink with 8, this spring if someone prefers the bridge helm it will be ready.

Upper helm as long as we can stand it

Upper helm as long as we can stand it. If it's really cruddy weather or just too cold then lower helm.
Having said that, it's always a good idea to have your lower helm ready for use (windshield cover removed or able to remove very very quickly, things out of the way, etc) Experience on a previous boat that has taught me (depending on your steering configuration) that you can lose upper helm steering and still have functional steering at the lower helm (Low hydraulic fluid and upper goes dry first)
Depending on your situation you may very well be able to enjoy good weather and great visibilty afforded by the upper helm and then switch to lower helm prior to arrival at an anchorage, marina, lock or, wherever.

I am a confirmed lower helm station trawler operator. Often can dock and depart by myself from there (occasionally standing outside the window for st'bd side helm), reaching in comfortably to steer and shift. That's where I can best be to perform a single-handed SOB recovery. There's where the best shade is on my boat.

I use lower helm exclusively. View when docking is far better because the close in view is not blocked by the FB deck. I would remove the FB if it wouldnt hurt the value of the boat. My MS 34 Mk1 backs to port so I approach the bulkhead at a 30 degree angle at idle speed till the bow is 12" away with bulkhead to port side and then shift into reverse and it will lay alongside by itself. As soon as its alongside I shift into N and go out the back door to tie the bow line to a mid dock cleat.. then tie off the port stern line. I am essentially done and just add a few more lines at my leisure. As to weather, it gets HOT as hell here and the FB really sucks when there is AC in the salon.

I boat in the PNW on my 3870 Bayliner. I have a canvassed in FB and NEVER run from the lower station. Mainly for visibility cruising and docking.

markpierce said:

Sound SOP! ... When possible, I use both hands on rails. ... Never like climbing/descending ladders or more than several vertical steps while underway. ... Even with high railings, I use a PFD while soloing. An unnoticed, errant/ignored wake could be enough to toss one of their boat.

Click to expand...

I agree, to live or to die is only the difference of a simple choice. I like your boat.

FB is used when manoeuvering in marinas, and when cruising when it's hot and calm. Otherwise, it's the Pilot House for me.

We have an aft cockipt control station, but I donlt find it useful since I can't control the wheel from there.

I have a 44ft Trawler and always use the upper helm for manouvering as it is more clearly visible all round from up there, although it can be wet sometimes. I have used lower helm but found it not so good visibility wise.
I think you should use which ever is more comfortable and good visibility, the choice is really yours.

greatpapabear said:

We have an aft cockipt control station, but I donlt find it useful since I can't control the wheel from there.

Click to expand...

See post #19. Most good autopilot manufacturers offer a jog lever which allows you to control the rudder through the autopilot system. Pretty simple to add as it's the remote control box and a control wire running to the autopilot brain box.

Ted

O C Diver said:

See post #19. Most good autopilot manufacturers offer a jog lever which allows you to control the rudder through the autopilot system. Pretty simple to add as it's the remote control box and a control wire running to the autopilot brain box.

Ted

Click to expand...

DOH! How come I hadn't thought of that! I'm on it to add to my list of 2019 upgrades.

Thanks so much.

O C Diver said:

I don't have a flybridge, but with regard to docking, my stern docking station is an absolute winner. The station is located on the starboard side, allows me a clear line of sight down the starboard side, and unsurpassed vision on the stern. I normally back in or side tie. The station allows me to deploy a spring line without leaving the station and has easy access to the dock through the transom door and off the swim platform.

View attachment 86111

The station consists of a single lever engine and transmission control, a jog lever which controls the rudder through the autopilot, and the bow thruster control. While not common on boats, it wouldn't be difficult to add to most as the only cables are for engine and transmission controls. The jog lever and bow thruster controls are each a multi conductor single wire.

View attachment 86112

Ted

Click to expand...

Ted,

Just LOVE those cockpit control stations.... That's one of my projects. Have the cable to connect to the shifter/throttle control (Glendenning, so dirt simple), and the remote thruster and AP. Just need to buy and mount the control head.

However, just don't need it that often.... even solo.

A question for you...
Is your SOP to stern in?
What is your technique into a slip with a side wind or current pushing you off the dock or out of the slip?

As to the OPs original question....

My ideal boat would have an upper and lower station, with helm doors on both sides. I have than excepting a helm door on the port side, which isn't the end of the world.

I operate from the flybridge 95% of the time, except for docking or really short trips or bad weather. I'm working on redoing the flybridge for better rain, cold and wind protection (ref my posting about "adding a hardtop"). I like the idea of Makrolon or EZ 2CY to see thru when raining, and adding a forward extension for rain and sun protection. Then it would be 98% on the flybridge.

A flybridge is a MUST for me, it's so peaceful and quiet up there, and the view is just unsurpassed. I suppose there's some raised pilot house boats that give a 360d view and can open all the windows, which would be a close second.

And, yes, one can certainly dock from the flybridge, especially with a deck hand or no current/wind, and I've done it many times. It's just way easier and easier to see the stern from the lower helm. But I'd never be up there docking where I'd have to hurry down the stair. (And, yes, stairs are a must.... no ladders).

Seems like the vast majority operate from their flybridge, but nothing wrong with other ways.

Upper or lower

I have one screw, no thrusters so backing is a challenge anyway, especially in a crosswind. I need excellent visibility which the lower station on my GB 36 doesn’t have. The physical layout of my marina requires me to back in so I use the upper station for docking. I also use the upper station for entering a crowded anchorage and for anchoring while my wife is at the bow. However, due to weather and other factors I occasionally use the lower helm.
In your case, you say that you will be going solo a lot, so for what it’s worth, I’ll provide the same advice I give all the time; be brutally honest with yourself about how and where you will use the boat most of the time, then buy the boat that best fits that need. If you will be solo frequently, then I wouldn’t even consider a boat without a port cabin door. You can make almost any layout work if you have to but since you are shopping, you have the luxury of finding a boat that fits your need. Believe me, solo docking in a current or crosswind and having to leave the helm to run out the starboard door and around to the port side isn’t any fun. Good luck!

Lower helm for single handing

Here in South West Florida, we use the flybridge when the weather is nice, but more often use the lower helm for the comfort of heat / A/C and access to dock lines, etc. I cannot imagine docking single handedly from the flybridge. On our boat, I can stand in the starboard companion way outside the helm door and reach throttle and thrusters with my left hand, then step off for lines once we’re positioned in the slip. I can’t see us ever owning a boat without that side door

In your case, you say that you will be going solo a lot, so for what it’s worth, I’ll provide the same advice I give all the time; be brutally honest with yourself about how and where you will use the boat most of the time, then buy the boat that best fits that need.

Click to expand...

Wise words, to which I would add being brutally honest about the capabilities of you and your crew. This includes physical size, coordination, agility and strength as well as situational awareness, communication skills, learning skills and peripheral vision. Recognizing these things helps inform you of what boat ergonomics need to be. Since we were (and to a large degree still are) lacking in most of the aforementioned metrics, it was essential to find a boat whose ergonomic design mitigated those weaknesses as much as possible. For instance, as a starting point one of the very first things I'd do when evaluating a boat was to go to the helms, put my hands on the shifters and look around.
Then, evaluate what was involved in getting from one point to another anywhere on the boat. And so on...

caltexflanc said:

Wise words, to which I would add being brutally honest about the capabilities of you and your crew. This includes physical size, coordination, agility and strength as well as situational awareness, communication skills, learning skills and peripheral vision. Recognizing these things helps inform you of what boat ergonomics need to be. Since we were (and to a large degree still are) lacking in most of the aforementioned metrics, it was essential to find a boat whose ergonomic design mitigated those weaknesses as much as possible. For instance, as a starting point one of the very first things I'd do when evaluating a boat was to go to the helms, put my hands on the shifters and look around.
Then, evaluate what was involved in getting from one point to another anywhere on the boat. And so on...

Click to expand...

That would be true regardless of what the boat has or does not have. The capabilities of a crew can be changed by training, which is a necessity of any boating activity. Unless one is handicapped, the vast majority of us can be trained to run ANY boat. So, I could go back to the OPs original question, which is more important.... how do you use the flybridge, side doors, etc and what value are they for the mission. While training is important, it's secondary to choosing a boat.

I disagree that all boaters can be changed by training. Even if the captain gets better through whatever means, if he/she depends on a crew that chooses not to improve.... a wall has been hit until the captain can basically solo.


Having instructed hundreds of boaters...some are just never operators and a great many more are just never comfortable unless they jump in with 2 feet and most never do. Then there are physical limitations aggravated by bad boat design or forcing oneself to do things outside their capabilities for obtuse reasons.


Even the limited visibility argument is dependent on a skippers abilities. If you cant see your stern, but have great boathandling capabilities...some skippers can walk around their whole boat no matter where windos or doors are.


Like all endeavors in life...beginners need the most they can get gong for them right up front...as one gains experience and talent....reaching further past some limitations is possible. BUT....some never progress as they let fear or lack of pressing forward in any way keep them from ever being able to manage any boat in less than perfect conditions.

Seevee said:

Ted,

A question for you...
Is your SOP to stern in?
What is your technique into a slip with a side wind or current pushing you off the dock or out of the slip?

Click to expand...

In a slip, I prefer stern in for the following:

I have a long anchor pulpit that would either hang over the dock or have my stern sticking way out.

Because of high sides, exiting to a floating dock is much easier off the swim platform.

Many fixed docks don't have long enough finger piers to access the pilot house doors when bow in.

Have the best visibility for docking at the stern docking station.

Feel in many situations it's easier and safer to leave bow first.


Regarding cross wind of current:
I'm single screw with a large foil rudder that swings 40 degrees. The boat turns on a dime because of the ability to throw a lot of water with the 28" propeller, at the large sharply turned rudder. I can move the boat sideways with very little forward motion by having the rudder hard over, transmission in forwad, and pushing the bow in the same direction with the bow thruster. So, once I'm backing in, the rudder is hard over and I'm ready with the bow thruster to offset the wind or current push.

All that said, if I don't like the amount of current (Fort Pierce city marina comes to mind), I'll go anchor or drift till conditions improve. Have nothing to prove to anyone.

Ted

Yacht Controller

When docking solo I find the use of my Yacht Controller extremely valuable. It is a wireless controller I wear around my neck that allows control of both engines (forward & reverse) as well as thruster control.

From any position on the vessel I can dock and handle the necessary lines.

After tying up I can do final adjustment on the dick as well.

carlr said:

After tying up I can do final adjustment on the dick as well.

Click to expand...

Great introductory post and welcome! Even if it is a bit kinky!