Upper or Lower Helm Station Use

It`s quieter mechanically on the FB, and in a way that`s a negative, I like to hear what`s going on under the floor.
It might depend how hospitable the FB is to use, weather incl. I don`t mind not having one if there is a usable cockpit. Good boats without are few and far on the market here.

I have a raised pilothouse with very good visibility, so I usually operate from there. RPH is definitely very nice to have. The flybridge has a hard top, mostly for solar panels but also to keep the sun off. It is deliberately not enclosed. The downside of that is that even at 8kn the wind chill can mean it is preferable to go below.

But I would typically dock from the flybridge, except for the last adjustments which are from down below via the internal stairs, so quick and easy access. Port and starboard doors, and side doors from walk-around decks means that there is no preferred side for berths. I would normally be bow-in, as this provides some privacy in the cockpit.

O C Diver said:

I don't have a flybridge, but with regard to docking, my stern docking station is an absolute winner. The station is located on the starboard side, allows me a clear line of sight down the starboard side, and unsurpassed vision on the stern. I normally back in or side tie. The station allows me to deploy a spring line without leaving the station and has easy access to the dock through the transom door and off the swim platform.



View attachment 86111



The station consists of a single lever engine and transmission control, a jog lever which controls the rudder through the autopilot, and the bow thruster control. While not common on boats, it wouldn't be difficult to add to most as the only cables are for engine and transmission controls. The jog lever and bow thruster controls are each a multi conductor single wire.



View attachment 86112



Ted

Click to expand...

That cockpit control is so damn cool. Was it originally on the boat or did you add it during the refit?

When I had a GB 36 Classic, running solo I would mostly use the FB station (except in bad weather) but when docking or picking up a mooring bouy, I'd first stop the boat go on deck, set lines (and fenders if needed) and then proceed from the lower helm so I could quickly access the lines on deck. Seemed to work well. Note: to reassure wife ( and because it makes good sense) I always wore a PFD when at the upper helm and always put the boat in neutral when moving between upper and lower helms (including breaks to use the head) and always kept at least one hand on a rail when moving about. Visions of bobbing in the water while the boat continued on its merry way on autopilot convinced me that the minor inconvenience was well worth it.

My old boat, a 42 Californian, had upper and lower helm stations. I'd run from the upper helm station any time the weather was nice or I was in crowded waters, e.g. marinas, anchorages, and harbor entrances, or anytime there was something I really wanted to see well at a distance, or I was concerned about local hazards, e.g. crab traps or rocks or the surface of the water.

But, if the weather was bad, or it was at night and cold, as long as I was in open, uncrowded, and uncomplicated water, I had no concern about piloting the boat for hours from the lower helm. And, sometimes when the weather got nasty and I couldn't see well anyway (heavy fog or super heavy rain), I piloted from the lower helm, anyway. I just creeped along really slowly, set and really watched radar, AIS, and stayed prepared to react quickly if anyone moving faster than me appeared out of nowhere quickly.

The other thing I did from the lower helm sometimes was to use it to bump the transmissions to keep myself straight and from drifting too far forward or backward while tying up in the wind. It was a long slow way up to the flybridge from the ropes.

My big problem with the lower helm was just all of the reflection on the glass. I never managed to get it dark enough to see out as well as I could from the top. Up top, the strataglass was worse than the lower windshield for reflections and glare. But, I could see out the back and most of the two sides, and easily look around the front windshield or poke my head out of a zipper. At the lower helm, all I could really do was poke my head out the door, and that gave me less than half of what was around me.

In the boat I just bought, the lower helm has a wheel, but no engine or transmission controls. They were reportedly never hooked up, even when the boat is new. They are dual-engine/dual-function controls. From what I heard from a prior owner, the manufacturer had gotten sued over the calibration of the neutral/gear point after an accident involving a sister ship and left it to the dealer to install the cables and assume the liability -- and they left it to the owner.

I think I am owner #4 -- and the first to be hooking them up. That is, with luck, this weekend's project. If for nothing else, I really want it working in case I need it tying up.

And, I can imagine that if I ever need to catch a ball; by myself (which I have never done) -- I'll need that lower helm.

angus99 said:

We have no enclosure on the FB and we’d probably run more from below in borderline weather if it was quieter. As it is, we’ve stayed on the FB in some uncomfortable conditions both because of the noise and not having an auto pilot below. However, I just installed a new AP28 head on the lower helm and will be exploring SoundDown to see if it makes a difference. Not that it’s unbearable below, just SO much more pleasant (most of the time) up top. Just the distant purr of the engines and an unobstructed view.

Click to expand...

Your loud noise could be due to running powerful engines moving the boat at substantial speed. Pity the galley crew and diners in the saloon who aren't on the remote, elevated flybridge while underway. We don't have that problem using a single 80-HP diesel engine, while occupying either the pilothouse, galley, or saloon.

Gordon GB said:

When I had a GB 36 Classic, running solo I would mostly use the FB station (except in bad weather) but when docking or picking up a mooring bouy, I'd first stop the boat go on deck, set lines (and fenders if needed) and then proceed from the lower helm so I could quickly access the lines on deck. Seemed to work well. Note: to reassure wife ( and because it makes good sense) I always wore a PFD when at the upper helm and always put the boat in neutral when moving between upper and lower helms (including breaks to use the head) and always kept at least one hand on a rail when moving about. Visions of bobbing in the water while the boat continued on its merry way on autopilot convinced me that the minor inconvenience was well worth it.

Click to expand...

Sound SOP! ... When possible, I use both hands on rails. ... Never like climbing/descending ladders or more than several vertical steps while underway. ... Even with high railings, I use a PFD while soloing. An unnoticed, errant/ignored wake could be enough to toss one of their boat.

cardude01 said:

That cockpit control is so damn cool. Was it originally on the boat or did you add it during the refit?

Click to expand...

It was a manufacturer's option during the build. Pretty easy to replicate on an existing boat. With a twin engines boat, just having engine and transmission controls might be sufficient.

Ted

When I was shopping for a boat for use in the PNW a flybridge was just about a "must have". After two years of cruising I am surprised and disappointed as to how little I used it.

Boat was a North Pacific 52 Pilot House--so the lower helm was easy to use, doors on both sides, quiet at normal 7 knot cruise. Just didn't often go up there to run the boat.

markpierce said:

Your loud noise could be due to running powerful engines moving the boat at substantial speed. Pity the galley crew and diners in the saloon who aren't on the remote, elevated flybridge while underway. We don't have that problem using a single 80-HP diesel engine, while occupying either the pilothouse, galley, or saloon.

Click to expand...

Yes, those massive 135 Lehman’s are a real pain in the butt for our extensive galley crew and frequent dining companions while underway. Guess it’s time to sell this tub and get a boat with no known issues. Which would you suggest we buy, Mark?

angus99 said:

Yes, those massive 135 Lehman’s are a real pain in the butt for our extensive galley crew and frequent dining companions while underway. Guess it’s time to sell this tub and get a boat with no known issues. Which would you suggest we buy, Mark?

Click to expand...

I'm surely not Mark. However. I'd suggest a 23' 1948 Chris Craft Express!

in late 50's, through early 60's my family of 5 cruised the heck out of that fun boat! No issues... many smiles!

angus99 said:

Yes, those massive 135 Lehman’s are a real pain in the butt for our extensive galley crew and frequent dining companions while underway. Guess it’s time to sell this tub and get a boat with no known issues. Which would you suggest we buy, Mark?

Click to expand...

SoundDown will definitely make a big difference on quieting the boat. The difference between open and closed engine hatch on my boat with SoundDown is amazing. Didn't realize your engines were so big.

Ted

O C Diver said:

SoundDown will definitely make a big difference on quieting the boat. The difference between open and closed engine hatch on my boat with SoundDown is amazing. Didn't realize your engines were so big.

Ted

Click to expand...

Me either, Ted. Or that a flybridge that we can almost play volleyball on was such a detriment.

How is your SoundDown attached, with the optional adhesive side or fasteners? Is it on all ER surfaces or just the ceiling? Did you remove the original ER sound insulation during your amazing refit or apply the SoundDown over what was already there?

(Just to remain on topic, these questions are all related to greater use of the lower helm.)

Comodave said:

It is simple for us, we don’t have a lower helm station. We deliberately bought a boat that does not have one as we wanted the room in the salon.

Click to expand...

Same here. We do, however, have a starboard side door that makes tying up in the slip a piece of cake. We had a 32' trawler for 8 years that didn't have a fly bridge & never gave piloting from a bridge a second thought. Now that we have one, I can't get over how the increased visibility adds to our cruising pleasure. Since we never go out with less than two people on board, scrambling down the ladder is not required. (I've tried it , however, & it's not a big deal!) Love the enclosed polycarbonate bridge! (Thanks to Tom White for counciling me on the enclosure selection.)

Mainship MK1

I can say I really enjoy the comfort of having a really cold salon after a long day on the water and most of the time my passengers agree. 50% of the time they end up napping inside and I rather enjoy running the boat from inside in the FL heat. I don't much care for the sun and while I have a bimini the sun always finds its way to me.

I prefer the lower helm but spend much of the time at the flybridge "entertaining". Less rocking from rough seas, protection from the sun, and AC or Heated.

Walt
Your PC enclosure looks great. A friend with a Nordhavn 55 is having his fly bridge enclosed with Lexan Margard. He much prefers the FB to any of his 3 external docking stations or pilot house when docking. So many ways ----

Flying Bridges of the world - Unite!!

I tend to do most things from the upper helm. My lower doesn't have electronics. I've rectified that by purchasing a display unit that will be networked (raymarine) this spring.

We have a side helm door. If I didn't I doubt I would use the lower at all. I do find it easier to dock and 'un-dock?' (I'm not sure if that is a word) from below. The side deck is flush with the sole at the lower helm, so I can stand with one foot in and one foot out while docking. Also the midship cleat is right there.

I use the lower for docking almost exclusively. It allows me to literally have a hand on the shifter and a hand on the mid-ship line. My slip is beam-to a strong current in a river. My finger pier is upstream of my slip. It makes docking very difficult especially in the spring or after heavy rain.

I keep a long dock line on the cleat on the end of the finger pier. I can pull up perpedicular to the finger pier, grab the dock line on finger pier and wrap it around my midship. Then use it to spring myself into my slip, while preventing the current from carrying me into neighboring, downstream boat (there are no pilings between boats this marina).

I couldn't do this if my lower helm wasn't setup the way it is.

.................I also run from below when it's raining or very cold. The lower is dry, and has windshield wipers. (I've been using a Garmin app on an iPad to get by in these conditions).

Shrew said:

.................I also run from below when it's raining or very cold. The lower is dry, and has windshield wipers. (I've been using a Garmin app on an iPad to get by in these conditions).

Click to expand...

Interesting, as I use a Raymarine Blue Tooth plotter to send information to the salon which is viewed on an iPad. My guests love it! Also. picture this...you have a camera in the ER and you want to re-position it. On the fly bridge or pilot house, click on the camera and take the iPad with you to the ER. While you are moving the ER camera around, you can instantly see the results! I know this is really basic to most of the TFers but Blue Toothed components sure make life easy!

Here’s a vote for both side doors in a pilot house, makes it easy for the captain to talk to dock hands or lock masters, but again depends on type of boat. Many boats have an elevated pilot house, i.e.: Nordic Tug or American Tug, so your view over the bow is excellent.
We don’t have and didn’t want a fly bridge, personal preference but I’m fair skinned and prefer to avoid potential for skin cancer and other ill effects of too much sun, also love the comfort and commanding position inside the pilot house.
Note also two helms can mean double the equipment you have to maintain, though I get that some people love their FBs.
This FB or no and question of side doors decision really needs to be made prior to purchase. Might be best for OP to be sure and climb around on different types of boats to get a first hand feel, go to a Trawlerfest or other boat shows... good luck!

angus99 said:

Me either, Ted. Or that a flybridge that we can almost play volleyball on was such a detriment.

How is your SoundDown attached, with the optional adhesive side or fasteners? Is it on all ER surfaces or just the ceiling? Did you remove the original ER sound insulation during your amazing refit or apply the SoundDown over what was already there?

(Just to remain on topic, these questions are all related to greater use of the lower helm.)

Click to expand...

Mineis held in place with marine fasteners (screws and fender washers). One day when I have no other boat projects, I'll cover the fender washers with foam circles to decouple the screws from the noise.

Bulkheads fore and aft, and the engine room ceiling are covered with SoundDown. The sides are mostly blocked fore and aft, floor to ceiling with fuel tanks and then walls with equipment fastened to them. Most of the insulation preexisted my ownership. We reworked a few areas, including closing an access stairs in the forward bulkhead and sound insulating it. Went through several rolls of their tape, sealing seams. Reworking the forward bulkhead has made the staterooms much quieter when the engine or generator are running.

Very happy with SoundDown's sound insulation and noise isolation mounting systems!

Ted

O C Diver said:

Mineis held in place with marine fasteners (screws and fender washers). One day when I have no other boat projects, I'll cover the fender washers with foam circles to decouple the screws from the noise.

Bulkheads fore and aft, and the engine room ceiling are covered with SoundDown. The sides are mostly blocked fore and aft, floor to ceiling with fuel tanks and then walls with equipment fastened to them. Most of the insulation preexisted my ownership. We reworked a few areas, including closing an access stairs in the forward bulkhead and sound insulating it. Went through several rolls of their tape, sealing seams. Reworking the forward bulkhead has made the staterooms much quieter when the engine or generator are running.

Very happy with SoundDown's sound insulation and noise isolation mounting systems!

Ted

Click to expand...

Thanks, Ted. I may holler back at you for details some day when I finally get around to this project.

While I don't have a 'flybridge' per se, my 'half-tower' with a 'buggy top' does provide an open-air experience with great visibility when the weather cooperates. Otherwise, I operate from the express bridge which is fully equipped including air and heat when needed. It is so much more peaceful up in the tower though.

My first project however was having a proper ladder fabricated so I could easy to get up there. I'm not a youngster anymore

LarryM said:

While I don't have a 'flybridge' per se, my 'half-tower' with a 'buggy top' does provide an open-air experience with great visibility when the weather cooperates. Otherwise, I operate from the express bridge which is fully equipped including air and heat when needed. It is so much more peaceful up in the tower though.

My first project however was having a proper ladder fabricated so I could easy to get up there. I'm not a youngster anymore

Click to expand...

NICE Ladder!!!

angus99 said:

Yes, those massive 135 Lehman’s are a real pain in the butt for our extensive galley crew and frequent dining companions while underway. Guess it’s time to sell this tub and get a boat with no known issues. Which would you suggest we buy, Mark?

Click to expand...

Pending the sale, you obviously need earplugs. And blinkers too,so that like Mark you can`t see the worth of any boat other than your own.

LarryM said:

My first project however was having a proper ladder fabricated so I could easy to get up there. I'm not a youngster anymore

Click to expand...

When shopping for out boat the #1 rule for the flybridge was it had to be easy to get down from there quickly and safely.

As for noise, don't ignore any gaskets you have around hatches that lead into the engine room. We've got two, one from the cockpit (outside) and another down into from the salon. There's some pretty tired gasket material around that inside hatch and it matters if someone stands on the hatch or not. Drops the noise by a noticeable amount. Been meaning to put that on the 'to do' list...

wkearney99 said:

When shopping for out boat the #1 rule for the flybridge was it had to be easy to get down from there quickly and safely.

As for noise, don't ignore any gaskets you have around hatches that lead into the engine room. We've got two, one from the cockpit (outside) and another down into from the salon. There's some pretty tired gasket material around that inside hatch and it matters if someone stands on the hatch or not. Drops the noise by a noticeable amount. Been meaning to put that on the 'to do' list...

Click to expand...

WOW!! Great bridge access stairs!!!

upper or lower

We have a Monk 36 trawler and live in Florida. I have used lower helm less than five times...mostly when it is raining or one or twice when I was along.

I DEPEND on a side door in the house if I am on the lower helm so I can quickly grab lines or see what's going on. I have no rear vision from the lower helm.

I guess much depends on what part of the world you are using your trawler. I would not have a trawler in Florida without an upper helm.
Rick

I dock from both helms and use both doors midship (from lower helm) to check crew, distance to dock, and any other obstructions. Both doors are very useful and necessary. Does that help?
Dawn