Anchor chain swivel good idea or not?

AnnapolisJoy said:

I can say that we have had too many anchors arrive upside down.

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Are your chain rollers grooved to suit the chain?

We simply don't have the space for a swivel unless doing major modifications to the stainless steel setup up front.
Grooves in the rollers solved our problem and was done onboard with a 4 inch grinder.

Not a groove

Simi 60 said:

Are your chain rollers grooved to suit the chain?

We simply don't have the space for a swivel unless doing major modifications to the stainless steel setup up front.
Grooves in the rollers solved our problem and was done onboard with a 4 inch grinder.

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Not really a groove but a wide roller with a smooth surface that is lower in the middle and has edges on each side to prevent the chain from slipping sideways. I will say at anchor in a breeze it moves a lot unless I adjust the bridle clamp below the water line. The Fleming windlass is about 8' off the water. It looks like you have the same distance.

BTW I also use the Mantus bridle. Super strong.

An actual groove to match the chain makes a big difference.

AnnapolisJoy said:

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BTW I also use the Mantus bridle. Super strong.

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Nothing special about it.
According to their site its just 3 strand nylon the same as we use, cheap as if bought from a non mantus place

https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-bridle/

$50 and an hour or two with a cold beer doing the splices and easily replaced every 18mths or so.

Boatcrazy said:

Multiple sources talk to added a few (4-12 links) between the anchor and the swivel. IF you put a good quality clevis on the anchor, then 4-12 links of chain, then the swivel, another good quality clevis (Crosby, etc), and then the rode....putting a side load on the swivel is near impossible. A side loading will kill a swivel....don't do it!

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We have done this as well. It also gives you the option of going up a size or two in chain and shackle for that short length, as most of the swivels will accept multiple chain sizes.

motion30 said:

Mantus

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Stainless safety wire?

Yep.

The Mantus was the only robust solution I could find to the problem of the anchor coming up to the pulpit wrong way, no matter what I did with my all-chain rode to the anchor attachment point. Stronger than my chain.

Jason Steele said:

The mantis looks like it worth a shot. I like thee design. Not so worried about the cost I’d rather know the boat is safe.
Thanks for everyone’s input I really appreciate it.

Cheers

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You may be disappointed with the Mantus if anchor orientation is the issue, as it was with us. Grooved roller - anchor came up backwards sometimes. Add swivel, like the Mantus, anchor came up backwards sometimes. Fiddle with the chain orientation, anchor came up backwards sometimes.

Add Ultra flip swivel and problem solved. Both the Mantus and the Ultra are stronger than the chain so no weak point there, but the Mantus isn't designed to orient the anchor right side up while the Ultra is. I believe Anchor Rite in Oz is now manufacturing a flip swivel as well that might be worth a look.

The other caution that the Ultra addresses and the Mantus might, but I don't know for sure it does, is that the strength tests are generally straight pull values. With a design like the Mantus (if I am understanding it correctly), a side pull may yield a very different strength value. The Ultra is more expensive in part because its strength test - verified independently - is based on side pulls, which it is designed to handle.

One other bit of recommendation for the Ultra - when I bought mine initially I followed their recommendations. Subsequently, they starting recommending the next size up for my anchor size. Ultra swapped out a three year old swivel for new, one size larger without cost. I thought that was pretty impressive customer service.

Hi Delfin,

Maybe I'm missing something - I guess I don't understand why the Mantus design would have any trouble with a side pull. As in the photo in post #8, it attaches to the anchor with a robust built-in bow shackle. The chain could pull at 90 degrees to the anchor and the swivel would stay aligned with the chain while its shackle turns relative to the anchor shank.

RCook said:

Hi Delfin,

Maybe I'm missing something - I guess I don't understand why the Mantus design would have any trouble with a side pull. As in the photo in post #8, it attaches to the anchor with a robust built-in bow shackle. The chain could pull at 90 degrees to the anchor and the swivel would stay aligned with the chain while its shackle turns relative to the anchor shank.

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With the Mantus, regardless of how many shackles one has between the direction of pull and the end of the swivel, that load is going to be measured at the angle of the pull. With the Ultra, the ball in socket will reduce that angle before the load is felt by the body of the swivel. Kind of hard to explain, but assuming a 90 degree pull on the Mantus would place the greatest load on the body of the swivel, the same 90 degree pull on the Ultra would reduce the angle by the degrees of pivot of the ball within the socket, which I think is around 45 degrees. The net result, I think, is that the loading on the non pivoting body of the Ultra is reduced by the pivot of the ball, which doesn't happen with the Mantus. I was told by Ultra that their loading tests were done at that angle of pivot. Mantus doesn't say one way or another, but my guess is that their load values are in a straight pull, not an angled pull.

All of this would only matter if the anchor gets wedged in a rock so it can't pivot itself, so as a practical matter perhaps it doesn't matter. My point is that the Mantus isn't designed to do what the OP wants - bringing the anchor into a position so it doesn't have to be turned - and I am not sure that the strength values are necessarily an apples to apples comparison since the designs are very different.

Speaking of flipping anchors... this is a link (pun) to a link that is said to right an achor upon retrieval... saw it on a CF thread, some time ago...

https://www.accastillage-diffusion.co.uk/junction-chain-anchor-elbow-a09601-1.html

Haven't found out much about it, though. I think I remember seeing a video of this thing in action, but if so, I can't find it again.

Nor have I found who actually make it, or more about it's construction.

But I mention it because it looks to be shorter than the Anchor Right flip link... which is too long for our own application.

Looking at pics of the shape of the shank on our SuperMAX anchor.. I don't think the Ultra flip swivel would attach to our anchor properly.

I don't actually remember which swivel brand we've got attached now -- either Kong or Suncor -- but it's one of the style that swivels on direction and pivots another. The pivot part is presumably about handling side loads.

-Chris

Had the same problem and the swivel fixed it. Not sure if it is a week link.
Has held on for anout 7 years so far and we live aboard and are anchored most of the time.