"Free" anchorage? Not really....

free for the taxpayers who have to pick up the tab. Here in San Diego, the current fiscal year will cost the taxpayers $592,000 to pay for impounded/abandoned vessels, to be increased in 2020 to $745,400. There has been an increase from 24 to 36 vessels being turned over to the Impound Services company, due in part to an un-patrolled area off the northwest side of Coronado Island, known as the Zuniga Jetty Shoal, where boaters are mooring for free. The boats break free and wind up on the beach, requiring removal. With no paper trail to identify the owners, the taxpayers are forced to pick up the tab.

ancora said:

free for the taxpayers who have to pick up the tab. Here in San Diego, the current fiscal year will cost the taxpayers $592,000 to pay for impounded/abandoned vessels, to be increased in 2020 to $745,400. There has been an increase from 24 to 36 vessels being turned over to the Impound Services company, due in part to an un-patrolled area off the northwest side of Coronado Island, known as the Zuniga Jetty Shoal, where boaters are mooring for free. The boats break free and wind up on the beach, requiring removal. With no paper trail to identify the owners, the taxpayers are forced to pick up the tab.

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$745,400 for 36 vessels??? Something's wrong with this picture. That's $20,705 per vessel. What am I missing here. I could hire a junk man and dispose of a boat for less than $1K. And I'm doing that right now, for WAY less.

ancora said:

...With no paper trail to identify the owners, the taxpayers are forced to pick up the tab.

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Why is there no paper trail to the owner? Don't boats have to be registered and taxes paid on them? The registration number or hull ID# should trace back to someone. If the current owner doesn't file the paperwork to register the boat, the last registered owner should be able to tell the authorities who he sold it to. If the owner can't show who he sold the boat to, then it becomes his problem (or encourages the seller to make da*m sure the paperwork is in order for the sale).

$20K a pop should provide enough money to track the owner down. You won't get them all, but it should help.

Greetings,
Mr. ancora. Source please?

"$745,400 for 36 vessels??? Something's wrong with this picture. That's $20,705 per vessel. What am I missing here."

Government doing anything is never cheap.

In NYC the cost for the housing authority to change a single light bulb is $1,900.

Google finds:
"The Log", page 9
https://issuu.com/dmcinc/docs/february-22-to-march-7-2019-combine

CA taxing authorities and governmental agencies together form a robust well oiled and monied industry and if employed by same one might be very fortunate....for common citizen not so much.

FF said:

Government doing anything is never cheap.

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Pretty much this. It's one thing to think about just the cost of physically retrieving a derelict. In some situations that might not be terribly expensive.

But there's a lot of other costs that come into play. Mitigating anything come off the vessel and polluting (and cleaning that up) is one. Transporting it and putting it somewhere pending disposal comes next. No doubt there's a lot of steps between "it's an immediate hazard that MUST be dealt with", "who does this belong to" and eventually "we can legitimately dispose of it". All of those costs add-up.

Worked both in government and small business.


The corners small businesses cut amazed me. Of course that was only till their insurance companies and lawyers demanded performance making them as bureaucratic as government and subsequent pricing increases. Seeing my bosses curse the very things that they used to complain about the government doing was comical.


It's not that government does things so inefficiently (generalization), they often are just following regulations placed on them by laws created to protect and serve...when businesses have to do the same, often the similarities in costs and performance are strikingly similar (generalization).

Greetings,
Ah. I see now. Well, the solution that immediately comes to mind is take a survey of all the vessels moored in the offending area and cull (remove) the ones that ownership cannot be found then remove them from THAT area before they end up drifting onto Navy property.


Liability be damned. IF the owner cannot be found in a reasonable length of time (45 days perhaps), "ownership" reverts to the municipality/state for removal and disposal. I expect hauling and clean up of a floating vessel would be far less expensive than retrieval from a beach somewhere.

Depends RTF....hauling a boat further up the beach with medium heavy equipment, crushing it up and putting it in a dumpster is already less a towing charge. Its usually the hazmat fees to transport and dispose of it and the legal issue of declaring it "abandoned" that most likely suck up the revenue.


After it washes ashore and maybe the oil and fuel are already dissipated and no cleanup required...even less money.

The root problem is there are too many people where you live

I’m all for fining the owner for the cost incurred for their uber litter. No money no problem. They can work it off with jail time served.

High Wire said:

I’m all for fining the owner for the cost incurred for their uber litter. No money no problem. They can work it off with jail time served.

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Prison is a retributive punishment. Assessing fines and cost is a restitutive punishment. A retributive punishment will never become restitutive no matter much you try. Sitting in jail will not generate revenue. In fact, it only serves to add to the operating cost for the county or state.

Now the taxpayers pay for the cost of salvage plus the offender's room and board along with the cost of processing him through the system to get there.

ancora said:

free for the taxpayers who have to pick up the tab. Here in San Diego, the current fiscal year will cost the taxpayers $592,000 to pay for impounded/abandoned vessels, to be increased in 2020 to $745,400.

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Wow! Seems a little high. Whose brother in law got that contract?

Group9 said:

Wow! Seems a little high. Whose brother in law got that contract?

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Add to the graft:

Why so much? An understanding of regulated unsorted refuse, construction materials and hazardous waste disposal procedures will provide the answer.

sunchaser said:

Add to the graft:

Why so much? An understanding of regulated unsorted refuse, construction materials and hazardous waste disposal procedures will provide the answer.

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I've only disposed of one derelict sailing vessel, and I got the waste company to take it for free for the lead keel.

But, then again, I wasn't in California. I guess that matters more than I know.

So if I want a boat, I should just hang out in Coronado and wait for a "gift" to float to shore.
On a side note: San Diego's beaches and bays are being taken over by homeless folks living in their motorhomes, cars and boats. Almost every beach/bay parking lot has trash, drugs and crap everywhere. There are boat anchored around the coves that are just covered with trash. One of the sailboats washed ashore at Mariners Point last week. It has been sitting on it's side for a week now (guy still living in it). Disappointing.

MurrayM said:

The root problem is there are too many people where you live

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Only because they have not yet discovered what a garden spot Kitimat is! ??

AlaskaProf said:

Only because they have not yet discovered what a garden spot Kitimat is! ??

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Shhh...

Group9 said:

I've only disposed of one derelict sailing vessel, and I got the waste company to take it for free for the lead keel.

But, then again, I wasn't in California. I guess that matters more than I know.

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I also assume you had a legal right to dispose of it. Otherwise it can be very complicated and expensive. It's not just so in California. States do not have laws that make it easy to handle. They must take the towed vessel, inventory it, store it, haul it, transport it, take it through the lien sale process, acquire the title to it, and then demolish it. They can't just go from point A to point B. Derelict vessel laws need to be written like abandoned vehicle laws but they are not.

OK, it may smoke a bit , but 10gal of gasoline with the local FD out for practice should take care of beached hulks.

BandB said:

I also assume you had a legal right to dispose of it. Otherwise it can be very complicated and expensive. It's not just so in California. States do not have laws that make it easy to handle. They must take the towed vessel, inventory it, store it, haul it, transport it, take it through the lien sale process, acquire the title to it, and then demolish it. They can't just go from point A to point B. Derelict vessel laws need to be written like abandoned vehicle laws but they are not.

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B and B, your post captures the problem. We currently keep our boat in the California Delta where there is also a significant a problem with abandoned vessels. It's not as simple as some think it is to find the owner since before they are abandoned the owner grinds off all hull numbers, engine and drive numbers, removes and buffs out registration stickers and often leaves them with enough fuel and oil still in the tanks and engines to create a hazmat issue. About 25 years ago we had a 22 foot runabout that needing "junking" because of structural issues. Although I would never do it, that experience made me "understand" why some simply abandon their boats.

This is a nationwide issue. The problem is that some people are scum and ruin everything for the rest of us.

FF said:

OK, it may smoke a bit , but 10gal of gasoline with the local FD out for practice should take care of beached hulks.

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How do you clean the petro residue from the beach afterwards? Can you just dump it onto the water? Or do you haul the sand away along with the rigging, motors, and ash/waste.

Burning old tires became a no-no almost half a century ago. FRP smoke and toxins are every bit as bad if not worse. You'd likely go to jail doing an open burn on a beach whether done by a fire department not. I've considerable air emissions experience with EPA, States and CARB - the personal outcome would not be good.

BandB said:

I also assume you had a legal right to dispose of it. .

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They never even asked.

BandB said:

Derelict vessel laws need to be written like abandoned vehicle laws but they are not.

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Sounds like a common sense solution to the problem.

ancora said:

There has been an increase from 24 to 36 vessels being turned over to the Impound Services company, due in part to an un-patrolled area off the northwest side of Coronado Island, known as the Zuniga Jetty Shoal, where boaters are mooring for free. .

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I don't understand "un-patrolled" this is an area under the authority of the U.S. Coast Guard and probably one of the local municipalities. With the Navy being in the are I am sure they should be able to board and check the ownership.

They have the same problem in FL with abandoned boats. However, as I heard it, once the local authorities tag a vessel as abandoned (big orange sticker) then it is fair game for anyone who wants it. Of course, by the time any given boat is tagged as abandoned it is usually in such a state that no one wants it anyway.

There is a spot on the ICW just south of the cruise port in FLL that seems to be a drop point for these sorts of boats.