It Pays To Pay Attention To Peggie

When I bought “Obsession” I did a major refit including rebuilding the sanitation system. I chose the Raritan Elegance head and the Sealand T pump along with PVC pipes for the straight runs and Trident Hose. I installed a f/w tank and for 3.5 years the system has worked flawlessly.

I read an article in which Peggie Hall described a cleaning process using vinegar. She recommended allowing the vinegar to sit for 2 hours but I thought, hey if 2 hours are good then 2 days would be great. This would come back to haunt me.

Shortly after the treatment it began to flush slowly requiring 2-3 flushes to clear the bowl. I removed the head and disassembled and found no blockage. A call to the Raritan tech line was helpful and they gave some potential problems. When I described the condition of the 2 joker valves they thought they were OK. In fairness they they could not see or feel them. However, the joker valves seemed to be the only potential so I replaced them and the head was back to normal, yey.

I suspect there was a reason Peggie said 2 hours and not 2 days. My fault. I would like say that we are indeed fortunate to have Peggie hovering around this site like an angel of blackwater responding to questions and giving valuable advice even if some folks (like me) don’t always follow it to the letter.

Don

It pays to buy her book too.

The cast of characters accessed through this site are pretty amazing. You could travel for a lifetime and never meet a crew like this.

steelydon said:

like an angel of blackwater

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Now there's an interesting moniker! :lol:

We are, indeed, fortunate. Tip of the hat in thanks to the angel.

Good lesson learned on your part. Thanks for passing it on to everyone.

John

For those who don't know Peggie Hall, here's her book. She goes by HeadMistress here on TF.

https://www.amazon.com/Get-Boat-Odors-Peggie-Hall/dp/1892399156

I read an article in which Peggie Hall described a cleaning process using vinegar. She recommended allowing the vinegar to sit for 2 hours...

I appreciate all the compliments! However I think Don mis-remembered the length of time I recommend letting the vinegar--which, btw, should always be distilled white vinegar, not cider--sit in the plumbing. It should be at least 45 minutes, no longer than ONE hour, followed by at least a couple of quarts of clean fresh water...and never leave it standing in the bowl 'cuz when soft rubber--i.e. joker valves--is left to sit and soak in vinegar it swells and distorts.


"Angel of blackwater" <LOL> At least that's a little classier than the nickname someone at West Marine christened me on the Compuserve sailing forum sometime in the '90s: "Princess of Poop." I began getting emails addressed to "your royal highness." To get out from under that one, I adopted "the HeadMistress" when a writer for Boating magazine hung that on me in a full page interview in 1997.


--Peggie

Well heck, if distilled white vinegar will do it, a high-dollar Italian Balsamic is bound to be better, right? Seriously though, the Admiral and I took one of Peggy’s workshops at St. Petersburg a couple of years ago. She’s good medicine.

healhustler said:

a high-dollar Italian Balsamic is bound to be better, right?

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Can you imagine being an owner sometime later in the boat's life wondering, WTF is that smell? It's like an italian salad or something... or SOMETHING.

healhustler said:

Well heck, if distilled white vinegar will do it, a high-dollar Italian Balsamic is bound to be better, right?.

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An Italian fisherman friend of mine used to refer to it as “Balls-Matic” vinegar. So thats how I pronounce it now.

Jim

HeadMistress said:

someone at West Marine christened me on the Compuserve sailing forum sometime in the '90s: "Princess of Poop."

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I think I remember that.....

Well heck, if distilled white vinegar will do it, a high-dollar Italian Balsamic is bound to be better, right?



I know you posted that as a joke, but there's good reason to use only distilled white vinegar. For one thing, it's not sticky...but the more important reason is, it's more acidic which makes more effective in preventing mineral buildup. Although it is possible to use vinegar to dissolve buildup in hoses, it's way too labor intensive compared to muriatic acid or products specifically made for that purpose. People who claim it doesn't work make the mistake of just letting something soak in it for hours even days...not realizing that it exhausts itself and has to be replaced every couple of hours. As is true of most things, prevention--a cupful or two every week or two--is a whole lot cheaper and easier than cure.


--Peggie

Wifey B: As common as water and sewage issues are on boats, I can't imagine why anyone on this site (or elsewhere, but elsewhere may not know) not having her book. We have the Old Get Rid and the New Get Rid, both in Kindle.

Yes peggy guided our refit installed 2 new Raritan elegance heads with electric touch panel works super no issues in first year .... using cleaner CA as Peggy recommends.

I'm pretty sure you meant to type CP (Raritan C.P.)...


I have really appreciated all the kind words from so many of you!
--Peggie

Just know that the CP Cleaner does not "eat" hair as she has stated in the past!

For me, it has paid to install a Nature’s Head composting toilet and not have to deal with any of these problems! [emoji51]

You can see the effects of vinegar without sticking your head down the dunny. Very effective cleaning the electric kettle, which gets so stained inside incl the plastic water level gauge is obscured. I also use it to descale the counter top espresso machine. Vinegar contains acetic acid, usually 4%,is that the active ingredient?

Peggie rocks

Peggie Rocks.

Awwww....shucks...


--Peggie

Peggy do you recommend the distilled white vinegar treatment for fresh water flush heads? Thanks for your contributions

HeadMistress said:

Awwww....shucks...


--Peggie

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Peggie, you forgot the part of looking at the ground and shuffle a foot in the dirt. SMILE

motoryacht lover said:

Peggy do you recommend the distilled white vinegar treatment for fresh water flush heads? Thanks for your contributions

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It depends on how "hard" the water you typically carry is.Water is considered "hard" if it has a high concentration of dissolved minerals like magnesium and calcium. It's pretty easy to tell if you have "hard" water...you’ll see mineral deposits, stains or a white film on surfaces like shower doors, tile, glass etc. Regular doses of white vinegar can prevent hard water buildup in the plumbing for toilets that use fresh water as it can in sea water systems.

If you're not seeing any signs that your water is "hard," you prob'ly don't need to "treat" your sanitation system with vinegar...but it can't hurt the plumbing if you want to use it anyway.

--Peggie

OldDan1943 said:

Peggie, you forgot the part of looking at the ground and shuffle a foot in the dirt. SMILE

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I couldn't find an emoji for that.


--Peggie

HeadMistress said:

It depends on how "hard" the water you typically carry is.Water is considered "hard" if it has a high concentration of dissolved minerals like magnesium and calcium. It's pretty easy to tell if you have "hard" water...you’ll see mineral deposits, stains or a white film on surfaces like shower doors, tile, glass etc. Regular doses of white vinegar can prevent hard water buildup in the plumbing for toilets that use fresh water as it can in sea water systems.

If you're not seeing any signs that your water is "hard," you prob'ly don't need to "treat" your sanitation system with vinegar...but it can't hurt the plumbing if you want to use it anyway.

--Peggie

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Peggie DOES ROCK!! Two years or more ago you helped Tom and I replace our heads, and we couldn’t be happier!

I do have a question though. Our guest head is rarely used...I may flush it once a month or so. I noticed when cleaning last weekend that the bowel now has a crunchy texture. Our master head does get pink/red stains under the rim of the bowel where the fresh water flows. Is this caused by hard water and will vinegar help clean these issues?

Thanks in advance!!

Do you leave water sitting in the bowl of the guest toilet when you know it won't be used for an extended period? Does the crunchy material wipe off when you clean the bowl, or does it require an abrasive cleaner? Whatever your answer, it's apparently what's left behind when the water in the bowl evaporates. Easiest solution: prevention. Don't leave any water sitting in the bowl.


As for your master toilet.. Any stains from the rim of the bowl are from the flush water coming into the toilet, so pouring vinegar into the bowl won't help because bowl contents don't recirculate through the flush water inlet. Do you also see pink stains in sinks, in the bowls or around the faucets? If so you may need to install a water softener in your fresh water system.



--Peggie

HeadMistress said:

Do you leave water sitting in the bowl of the guest toilet when you know it won't be used for an extended period? Does the crunchy material wipe off when you clean the bowl, or does it require an abrasive cleaner? Whatever your answer, it's apparently what's left behind when the water in the bowl evaporates. Easiest solution: prevention. Don't leave any water sitting in the bowl.


As for your master toilet.. Any stains from the rim of the bowl are from the flush water coming into the toilet, so pouring vinegar into the bowl won't help because bowl contents don't recirculate through the flush water inlet. Do you also see pink stains in sinks, in the bowls or around the faucets? If so you may need to install a water softener in your fresh water system.



--Peggie

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Guest head - not really, no more than to fill the drain. I have not tried abrasives....but it does not come all the way off with general cleaning. I used clorox wipes so to not get cleaning chemicals into the plumbing hoses and tank.



Master Head - yes, we get pink spots everywhere.....I'll put water softener on Tom's to-do list.

One thing to toss in for consideration of water softness and PH factor is watermakers. If you fill your tanks from docks part of the time and use watermakers part of the time, you're getting two very different types of water. You probably need to do some filtering but also monitoring. Typically the dock has hard water with high PH and has chlorine. Before filtering or treating, watermakers typically produce low PH and soft water. That''s before even considering that every dock is different and every cruising area you're making water in is different.