PVC vs Hypalon dinghy

Baker said:

Very similar to the gas versus diesel debate. PVC=gas Hypalon=diesel. Gasoline bpoats are cheaper and perfectly serviceable. Diesel boats are.....BETTER!!!

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Interesting analogy - in our experience our diesel inflatable was less desirable then our gas inflatable.

Lollygag1 said:

Looks like a $600 difference at the place that has them on sale this week. Looking through the seat cushions now for extra change.

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If you're looking for dink seat cushion/saddle bags, take a look at these.

https://www.boatstogo.com/bags.asp





I picked up a couple of these for under $39 each and found them well built and versatile. I use them to store all my PFDs, first aid kit, air horn, GPS, anchor, etc. The external pouches work well as drink holders. The underbags unzip from the cushion and come with a shoulder strap to easily take with you if you need to.

They are currently out of stock but they place an order periodically to support the back-orders. (at least that's what they told me when I initially ordered)

I am surprised that there is any debate as between PVC and Hypalon. In over 40 yrs experience boating with a large number of friends and acquaintances I have never, before this thread, heard anyone putting PVC ahead of Hypalon.
As I have never owned a PVC, these comments only apply to Hypalon.
Cleaning: MEK or Toluene and looks like new.
Patching: New Glue, clean with Toluene, holds for the life of the dinghy.
I bought a new Hypalon dinghy in 1988, sold it after cleaning with Toluene in 2004, and that owner resold it in 2017 to get a different style, not because that 29 yr old dinghy was at end of life.
My present Hypalon dinghy was new in 2004. I expect to get at least the same service out of this one.

Just about everything being said in this thread is not accurate. I did some checking in the industry and got completely different answers from two different manufactures. The first thing I was told was military inflatables use a military spec material that is neither Hypalon nor PVC. Secondly, Hypalon is Dupont’s trade name for a 5 layer spec material that they no longer make. That many low end manufacturers are using a low grade material that is rubber coated and calling it Hypalon. That PVC boats come welded or glued depending on manufacture.

In the end both manufactures agreed that a high quality PVC was better than the junk being pass off as Hypalon on low end boats. What they couldn’t agree on was which was better high end PVC boats or high end Hypalon style boats.

Novurania feels that the superior abrasion resistance of Hypalon style material and its superior UV resistance is necessary to make the finest boats in the world.

Zodiac feels that the extra cost of Hypalon material is not worth the small gains in abrasion and UV resistance.

In the end I would have to say if cost is an issue then PVC will be your choice. If cost is less of an issue you will probably choose a Hypalon boat.

Both manufacturers were very clear that junk materials make junk boats.

koliver said:

I am surprised that there is any debate as between PVC and Hypalon. In over 40 yrs experience boating with a large number of friends and acquaintances I have never, before this thread, heard anyone putting PVC ahead of Hypalon.
As I have never owned a PVC, these comments only apply to Hypalon.
Cleaning: MEK or Toluene and looks like new.
Patching: New Glue, clean with Toluene, holds for the life of the dinghy.
I bought a new Hypalon dinghy in 1988, sold it after cleaning with Toluene in 2004, and that owner resold it in 2017 to get a different style, not because that 29 yr old dinghy was at end of life.
My present Hypalon dinghy was new in 2004. I expect to get at least the same service out of this one.

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"I have never, before this thread, heard anyone putting PVC ahead of Hypalon."
There are advantages to each neither one comes out ahead in every category.

"As I have never owned a PVC, these comments only apply to Hypalon"
There are various grades of quality with Hypalon just like with PVC boats. Describing only the material type does not represent each boat in that category on either material.


"MEK or Toluene and looks like new."
Yes - you can generally clean these boats with those solvents, and maybe some orange cleaner for rusts etc. Not nearly as easy as just a soapy water solution - and the mildew that can affect the Hypalon boats can mainly be bleached out as well.

"I bought a new Hypalon dinghy in 1988, sold it after cleaning with Toluene in 2004, and that owner resold it in 2017 to get a different style, not because that 29 yr old dinghy was at end of life."
Sounds like a quality boat - not all Hypalon is made that way and certainly today none are the same as a dozen years back

tiltrider1 said:

Just about everything being said in this thread is not accurate. I did some checking in the industry and got completely different answers from two different manufactures. The first thing I was told was military inflatables use a military spec material that is neither Hypalon nor PVC. Secondly, Hypalon is Dupont’s trade name for a 5 layer spec material that they no longer make. That many low end manufacturers are using a low grade material that is rubber coated and calling it Hypalon. That PVC boats come welded or glued depending on manufacture.

In the end both manufactures agreed that a high quality PVC was better than the junk being pass off as Hypalon on low end boats. What they couldn’t agree on was which was better high end PVC boats or high end Hypalon style boats.

Novurania feels that the superior abrasion resistance of Hypalon style material and its superior UV resistance is necessary to make the finest boats in the world.

Zodiac feels that the extra cost of Hypalon material is not worth the small gains in abrasion and UV resistance.

In the end I would have to say if cost is an issue then PVC will be your choice. If cost is less of an issue you will probably choose a Hypalon boat.

Both manufacturers were very clear that junk materials make junk boats.

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Thanks for a great post , our experiences are the same.
I think Zodiac still makes tubes in each material - at least last time we checked to buy tubes about 6 years back.

Love the feedback folks. We are looking at Mercury 280 which comes in either PVC or Hypalon.

Trading up from a smaller, older, more expensive hypalon dink to a larger cheaper brand spanking new PVC dink makes sense for some.

When my $500 PVC dink fails, I plan to take it back to Costco for a refund, credit or replacement. If that doesn't work, I'm only out $500, not $3500. I can buy 7 of these for the price of 1 of those.

Call me cheap...guilty as charged. I can't help it, I'm a pilot.

Why Are Pilots So Cheap?

Al,
What power are you pushing the Costco dingy with?
How are you mounting it?
We are not cheap--just frugal.
I assume the seat is mounted in the new Costco dingy.
Greg

Beekeepergreg said:

Al,
What power are you pushing the Costco dingy with?
How are you mounting it?
We are not cheap--just frugal.
I assume the seat is mounted in the new Costco dingy.
Greg

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I know absolutely nothing about the Costco dinghy but here are the specs that answer your questions....

https://www.costco.com/Hydro-Force-Mirovia-Pro-Inflatable-Boat.product.100341175.html

Beekeepergreg said:

Al,
What power are you pushing the Costco dingy with?
How are you mounting it?
We are not cheap--just frugal.
I assume the seat is mounted in the new Costco dingy.
Greg

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I use a Merc 15HP, 2-stroke OB. It weighs 77 lb. I use a Garhauer lifting davit to lift the motor onto the transom mount and to tilt the dink vertically on the swimstep.

The photos below show the transom setup on the swim step with the motor on the transom mount (port corner), the dink on its float in my slip and the dink with seat saddlebags installed.

The dink lives most of its life on the float. When I want to take a ride, I just pull it off the float by its painters and position it at my swimstep. When I return, I drive up onto the float and step off the bow on the dock. As I step off, the boat and motor float clear of the water.

When cruising (i.e., not fishing) it rides well on the swimstep. If I wanted to fish with the dink on the transom, I'd need to drop the dink to a more horizontal position to allow fishing off the aft rail. I have not had to do that yet.

I bought the dink during the summer months when it was on sale for $480. Looks like its everyday price is $650.

FlyWright said:

I use a Merc 15HP, 2-stroke OB. It weighs 77 lb. I use a Garhauer lifting davit to lift the motor onto the transom mount and to tilt the dink vertically..,.

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The best 15 ever made, IMO

I prefer airdeck floors to wood slats(better support) or aluminum(weight). At 10ft/4 adults it`s quite a large tender which would take the bigger motor. Advt doesn`t say the thickness of the pvc, .9mm seems the max I see advertised, better than thinner material. And it looks to have good size tubes, important imo.

FlyWright said:

When my $500 PVC dink fails, I plan to take it back to Costco for a refund, credit or replacement. If that doesn't work, I'm only out $500, not $3500. I can buy 7 of these for the price of 1 of those.

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Even if you replace it every 4-5 years, compared to the 20 year life of a hypalon dinghy, you'll still be ahead.

FWIW, I have a Intex Mariner 3 dinghy. Cost me about $150. Works great and it is much more robust than I expected. You may scoff, but since we only use it for a couple of days about every 3 years and the rest of the time it sits in a plastic tub in the basement, it makes perfect sense for our use case. Every once in awhile I treat it with 303 Protectant (2x so far). BTW, it is now about 4 years old and still looks like new.

Hypalon will hold up better. I just bought an Achilles aluminum RIB. It’s lighter than the fiberglass. We love it.
Cole

Used both types for 10,000 miles each. Found no significant difference in performance. Used mostly to take dog to shore twice per day. PVC was a Mercury 8 ft. Good dink. Wish I could say the same about the Mercury 3.5 motor.

Thats a LOT of dinkin around[emoji848]

As noted before Hypalon was a trade marked product by DuPont, which was discontinued. The product is actually a synthetic rubber (CSM): chlorosulfonated polyethylene (CSPE). There are a number of sources for CSPE. This material will allow air leakage, so the boats are built with a neoprene coating on the inside.

There are a number of different characteristics of an inflatable boat, which makes it more suitable, as well as the actual coating of the fabric. The thickness, and seam construction are major factors in the boats durability and longevity. So do you want a $150 pool toy type of inflatable (and if you use the inflatable instead of a life raft--or even go from your moored boat to shore, in rough weather,) to fail--and leave you in the drink?
The fabric, the quality of the seams, the fit and finish, as well as place of manufacture have a great deal to do with durability, as well as if the material is PVC, CSPE or polyurethane.

I believe back in the late 70's maybe early 80's Zodiac bought Bombard, then Avon in 1998. All of the boats were cheapened, and catastrophic failures began, especially with PVC boats. Virtually all of the cruisers in the South Pacific had dinghies which were failing. A numbers of cruisers were using the inflatables as life rafts, and trusting the Zodiac Name.

Fast forward to 2015, when Zodiac failed, and the new companies: Zodiac Nautic, Avon, Bombard and Mil Pro were spun off. There are the light use, leisure boats, all of the way up to the serious military boats used by SEALs, and other Commando type of operations.

Seam Constriction: Overlapped (with or without taping inside or outside) or butted and taped. The best seams will be butted and taped inside and outside. Good glued neoprene/CSPE seams are stronger than the fabric. PVC boats are usually built with high heat pressure, radio frequencies (RF), or electronic welding, today. This allows a very rapid construction technique, vs the hand gluing of the CSPE materials. Of course PVC boats can also be glued--but this is rare in the commercial world. Recently I made some covers using a PVC/dacron material from Sailrite. I used HH66 glue. (An MEK solvent based glue). I did destructive testing of the seams, and the PVC fabric began to fail before the seam.

My first inflatable was an Avon RedSeal (10'3") Hypalon boat purchased in 1962, and kept for about 15 years. I had a 12 foot PVC "Cagliari " it was cheaper than an Achilles or Avon in the late 1970s. Only problem, was that after using it several years of full time cruising, Calif. Panama to East Coast, one day during a thunderstorm, the "synthetic material Transom--(plastic nylon re-inforced) split right along the sides of the 25 HP Johnson outboard motor. I hand held that motor until my wife jumped off onto our boarding ladder, and then had a spinnaker halyard ready to drop to me as a made a pass, and she held up the motor. I repaired the transom with aluminum and plywood--two days later it split all of the way outboard. I bought a 13' Commercial duty Achilies Hypalon boat. Later I bought a 10 year old Avon 12'6" RIB. I used that for another 8 years and sold it for what I paid for it. My son has a 10' Costco boat for harbor use, but when he ventures out into the Pacific, there is a 20 + year old Avon Hypalon boat aboard his C Dory 25.

With that history, you would think I own a Hypalon dinghy today--but no. I have owned a Bombard AX2 and a AX3. Today, I own a 14 year old West Marine 9;4" boat made by Avon. which is PVC. I have used it for at least 2 months daily every year, in high UV environments. No problems. The rest of the time, it is rolled up into its container.

If I was cruising full time and crossing oceans, I would have a CSPE RIB (fiberglass, because I can repair it easier than I can repair an aluminum hull.)

diver dave said:

Thats a LOT of dinkin around[emoji848]

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Diver Dave, my right arm became massive from all the pulling of the starter cord. Our Hypalon was a Caribe with a Yamaha which was mostly better than the Mercury O/B but four strokes with a carb have a personality of their own. I did Rigid Inflatable with both dinks which was a good decision given a variety of landing situations eg. rocks in the great lakes, muddy shore lines on the Mississippi, etc. No regrets. I still like the smell of an outboard in the morning.

ok another quick question for the crew. Fiberglass or aluminum hull. I am specifically concerned with stability as my wife struggles w balance issues.

The hull material will make almost no difference in the stability.
The length, beam, hull shape, weight, tube size and tube design will make all the difference in stability.

If you are in an area with lots of barnacle growth along the shore, goes with aluminum.

Costco dinghy

Al:
Thank you for posting pictures of your dinghy mounting system. I have pretty well decided to purchase the Costco dinghy as well rather then trying to glue the transom back to the floor of my inherited dinghy. Just purchasing the boat.

You did not say how (if at all) the port side of the dinghy is attached to your swim platform. Do you have a davit type hook system like on the attached photo (similar to https://www.weaverindustries.com/index.cfm/category/5/davits-for-hardshell-dinghies.htm)?

Or does the dinghy sit loose on the swim platform?

Furthermore, my engine mount has a 90 degree rotating connection to the dinghy transom so that when the dinghy is hoisted vertically the mount will turn and the engine stays more or less vertical. It may be a chore to mount that on the Costco dink transom. What do you think? Plus glue the davit hooks to the dinghy!

Erik

My last PVC aluminum bottom RIB, Aquapro from NZ lasted for 11yrs. It was never covered and never indoors. It cost half of a hypalon version.

My current Highfield PVC aluminum rib is four years old and is out side on dock full of snow right now. It also cost about half of a hypalon version.

For the cost of hypalon I figure I'm way ahead of the game.

boatpoker said:

My last PVC aluminum bottom RIB, Aquapro from NZ lasted for 11yrs. It was never covered and never indoors. It cost half of a hypalon version.

My current Highfield PVC aluminum rib is four years old and is out side on dock full of snow right now. It also cost about half of a hypalon version.

For the cost of hypalon I figure I'm way ahead of the game.

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Only 12 years?
My first hypalon dinghy was a 1984 Achilles. It was stolen in 90 and replaced with new. I sold that one in about 2005, its owner still had it in 2016, so at least 26 years.
My present hypalon is a Caribe, 2003. It looks like new at least once a year, a little toluene cleans it right up. A little 303 makes it shine for another year. I expect a few more years of trouble free service.

My opinion; Hypalon will last longer, but cost twice as much. I prefer a PVC boat for half the money that I replace twice as often. I would stay away from any PVC boat that has glued seams, like the Zodiac "Zoom" models. A PVC boat with welded or "thermo-bonded" seams is a better product than glued PVC. PVC will likely last as long or almost as long as Hypalon if you keep it covered/out of the sun.

boatpoker said:

My last PVC aluminum bottom RIB, Aquapro from NZ lasted for 11yrs. It was never covered and never indoors. It cost half of a hypalon version.

My current Highfield PVC aluminum rib is four years old and is out side on dock full of snow right now. It also cost about half of a hypalon version.

For the cost of hypalon I figure I'm way ahead of the game.

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"...is full of snow right now.." There is your answer. You dinghy spends half of its life in colder climates. I would imagine it would not be the same story if you lived in tropical climes.