Chris71
Member
Would 2 of these work like 2x30 shore power to create 50 amps or would there be phase issues
Thank you
Thank you
Honda 30amp Compani
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Chris71
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My ignorance is coming out, my boat is 50amp service, I never use anywhere near that much and I have the dual 30 amp connector cord , so how would that work?
Thanks for your help
Thanks for your help
O C Diver
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First thing to determine is whether you have any 220-240 VAC appliances or equipment (it's unlikely, but you want to make sure).
There is a shore power cord adapter that converts your 50 amp 250 volt cord plug into a single 125 volt 30 amp plug. That should connect directly to the generator. How the two generators are wired together should be explained in the owner's manual which you should be able to download from the Honda website.
Ted
There is a shore power cord adapter that converts your 50 amp 250 volt cord plug into a single 125 volt 30 amp plug. That should connect directly to the generator. How the two generators are wired together should be explained in the owner's manual which you should be able to download from the Honda website.
Ted
Chris71
Member
240
My boat is all 240 except for the 120 outlets
My boat is all 240 except for the 120 outlets
Chris71
Member
Don’t mind as you are helping me, it is a Pursuit 365I and they use a 240 volt concept, from the a/c to the battery chargers
Two Honda Companions will not supply 240V AC. I don't know of any small inverter generators that can supply 240V either by themselves or hooked to another one.
I agree with O C Diver, it would be unusual for an American built boat to be rigged for almost all 240V. Lots of marinas don't have 50A 240V AC service. Some may have two 30A service nearby on different legs that can be combined to produce 30A 240V but not all.
David
O C Diver
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I don't know how much you know about electrical wiring on boats and don't mean to question your knowledge, but:
It's very common for boats to have 240 VAC power to the boat's breaker panel. The service includes 2 hot wires (120 VAC), a neutral, and a ground. An appliance that uses 240 volts is connected to both hot wires and would have a double pole breaker on the panel. Appliances, outlets, lights and other devices that are 120 VAC will use a single hot wire, the neutral, and have a single pole breaker on the panel. While your boat may have a 240 VAC breaker panel (referencing the shore power voltage), it probably uses only 120 VAC individual circuit breakers.
If you would, please take a picture of the breaker panel and post it to this thread. Please make the panel as large as possible in the picture.
Ted
C lectric
Guru
I will chip in.
What voltage rating shows on your equipment, specifically. Some equipment these days can be designed to operate properly on a wide range of voltage and Hz. Chargers, inverters, etc. This way the boat mfgr. can get around the old problems of; do they wire for North America or wire for Europe and it is a big, expensive problem.
Plus the equipment builders can avoid the same headaches, built only for Europe or N.A. or build so it can do both without modifications or different designs.
That does NOT mean the boat was wired to operate on 240V only. 240V is split into two phases [not exactly the correct term'] to give us two 120V sides.
A 240V only system would have only three wires or contacts on the cord ends; 2 hots and a ground/earth.
A 240/120V system would have 4 wires; two hots, a neutral, a ground/earth.
Can you tell us what MAIN cord you have , a photograph, a good clear one.
The fact that you do indeed have 120V outlets would indicate you may have a 240/120 v system but that does not mean that the boat must be supplied with 240 only.
You may only need splitters or 'Ys' as suggested. But you won't get 50A
Nor does it mean that the equipment must have only 240V.
And NO, two parallel Hondas will not provide 240V. If you try to wire them in a manner to get around that you will damage them. The HZ phasing MUST BE EXACT or one of them will turn into a short circuit to the other damaging one or both and maybe some other equipment.
You may need to find out from the boat builder exactly what you have and not guess or this could get expensive and maybe damaging. Or get a marine electrician to look over what you have if the boat builder is no longer in existence.
I'm not trying to be difficult or insulting but it seems like you don't know enough to give enough information to safely sort this out from what I am reading. That could be expensive and/or dangerous.
What voltage rating shows on your equipment, specifically. Some equipment these days can be designed to operate properly on a wide range of voltage and Hz. Chargers, inverters, etc. This way the boat mfgr. can get around the old problems of; do they wire for North America or wire for Europe and it is a big, expensive problem.
Plus the equipment builders can avoid the same headaches, built only for Europe or N.A. or build so it can do both without modifications or different designs.
That does NOT mean the boat was wired to operate on 240V only. 240V is split into two phases [not exactly the correct term'] to give us two 120V sides.
A 240V only system would have only three wires or contacts on the cord ends; 2 hots and a ground/earth.
A 240/120V system would have 4 wires; two hots, a neutral, a ground/earth.
Can you tell us what MAIN cord you have , a photograph, a good clear one.
The fact that you do indeed have 120V outlets would indicate you may have a 240/120 v system but that does not mean that the boat must be supplied with 240 only.
You may only need splitters or 'Ys' as suggested. But you won't get 50A
Nor does it mean that the equipment must have only 240V.
And NO, two parallel Hondas will not provide 240V. If you try to wire them in a manner to get around that you will damage them. The HZ phasing MUST BE EXACT or one of them will turn into a short circuit to the other damaging one or both and maybe some other equipment.
You may need to find out from the boat builder exactly what you have and not guess or this could get expensive and maybe damaging. Or get a marine electrician to look over what you have if the boat builder is no longer in existence.
I'm not trying to be difficult or insulting but it seems like you don't know enough to give enough information to safely sort this out from what I am reading. That could be expensive and/or dangerous.
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I'm looking to solve the same issue.
There ARE a few 240 only boats out there. The Mainship 400 is one, which I have.
The input is 240/50 which is the ONLY power source it will take. It goes thru a transformer and then supplies power to the charger and the panel. The panel is a 240/110 set up.
Most of the appliances are 240v. The Charger, AC, Stove, Grill, pumps and water heater. There are also 110v outlets for the 110v appliances.... coffee, micro, blender, etc.
I wish I had a simple way to just keep the batteries topped off while at my dock (which only has 1130/30).
A generator doesn't make a lot of sense... I have one on the boat, but don't want to run it daily.
I could rig up an additional supply line straight to the batteries, get another charger (but would need a smart one), and keep the batteries topped.
I could just wire a new shore power line, but can be rather expensive. Not sure what the cost would be but probably north of $2000.
Thinking of solar, still at least $1000, but also would give portable power on the hook.
====
Let's keep this thread going, perhaps we'll both find a good solution.
There ARE a few 240 only boats out there. The Mainship 400 is one, which I have.
The input is 240/50 which is the ONLY power source it will take. It goes thru a transformer and then supplies power to the charger and the panel. The panel is a 240/110 set up.
Most of the appliances are 240v. The Charger, AC, Stove, Grill, pumps and water heater. There are also 110v outlets for the 110v appliances.... coffee, micro, blender, etc.
I wish I had a simple way to just keep the batteries topped off while at my dock (which only has 1130/30).
A generator doesn't make a lot of sense... I have one on the boat, but don't want to run it daily.
I could rig up an additional supply line straight to the batteries, get another charger (but would need a smart one), and keep the batteries topped.
I could just wire a new shore power line, but can be rather expensive. Not sure what the cost would be but probably north of $2000.
Thinking of solar, still at least $1000, but also would give portable power on the hook.
====
Let's keep this thread going, perhaps we'll both find a good solution.
C lectric
Guru
Ok, understood. The builders didn't make it easy did they?
So maybe Chris71 has the same system and problem.
As you say nothing some changes couldn't fix but it likely would be a few bucks.
However what I suggested for him may also stand. Get a marine electrician involved as a misunderstanding and the resultant errors could be both expensive and dangerous.
So maybe Chris71 has the same system and problem.
As you say nothing some changes couldn't fix but it likely would be a few bucks.
However what I suggested for him may also stand. Get a marine electrician involved as a misunderstanding and the resultant errors could be both expensive and dangerous.
C,
Builders often build things that are not user friendly. I which I could just plug in a single 110/30a plug and charge the batteries, like I could with all the other boats I've had.
And, yes, if one is not positive about an electrical install, it makes sense to hire an expert.
Do you have an owners manual and/or specific schematics supplied for your boat?
http://www.pursuitboats.com/Owners_Manuals/2017OwnersManuals/DC325(D9).pdf
It appears that Pursuit does have good documentation and that these boats were typically supplied with the more standard 30/120 unless ordered differently.
Securing your boats actual wiring setup will likely lead to a more simple way to add a 30/120 line with the appropriate lockouts.
http://www.pursuitboats.com/Owners_Manuals/2017OwnersManuals/DC325(D9).pdf
It appears that Pursuit does have good documentation and that these boats were typically supplied with the more standard 30/120 unless ordered differently.
Securing your boats actual wiring setup will likely lead to a more simple way to add a 30/120 line with the appropriate lockouts.
C lectric
Guru
Yes, I can think of several ways of dealing with this now that I understand , or so I think, what he has. But over the internet is a disaster waiting to happen since even a minor misunderstanding could be dangerous.
Chris 71 ,
Pursuit is still in business so it would appear. Contact them and as Smitty477 suggested get them involved for a wiring diagram which will help an electrician if you go that route. Pursuit may already have a solution.
Chris 71 ,
Pursuit is still in business so it would appear. Contact them and as Smitty477 suggested get them involved for a wiring diagram which will help an electrician if you go that route. Pursuit may already have a solution.
Good point, but FWIW, I found very few marinas on my recent loop trip that couldn't provide 2 30s (out of phase to work), or one 50a service. However, smaller marinas are more limited.
Chris71
Member
Boat is a 365I and manual is here
http://www.pursuitboats.com/Owners_Manuals/2018OwnersManuals/SC365i(Z6).pdf
http://www.pursuitboats.com/Owners_Manuals/2018OwnersManuals/SC365i(Z6).pdf
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Chris71
Member
Panel pic
Please pardon me if I screw up, I think I have the panel pic and it came from the 4 section of the owners manual previously shown
Please pardon me if I screw up, I think I have the panel pic and it came from the 4 section of the owners manual previously shown
Chris71
Member
Appears to be a new boat - not even fully past warrantee maybe.
The dealer appears to be nearby.
Why not ask the dealer what options they recommend utilizing 30/120 other then what is in section 4.7 of the manual?
Yes that is a primary 240V two phase electrical system with fairly minor loads covered by 120V. You don't say if you have an inverter or not but if you do I will bet it only supplies 120V to the 120V panel, which isn't all bad as the microwave and galley outlets are what most people use an inverter for.
The only downside I can see is the fact that some marinas (fairly few but may be significant) can't supply 240V directly or indirectly with two opposite leg 120V supplies Y'd together.
David
The only downside I can see is the fact that some marinas (fairly few but may be significant) can't supply 240V directly or indirectly with two opposite leg 120V supplies Y'd together.
David
O C Diver
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My apologies, you were quite right.
Never seen a 240 VAC dominant wired boat that small (under 50'). If you want to run it off a gas generator, it will need to be a 240 VAC, not the inverter style you were considering. It will likely be significantly heavier and noiser, but possibly cheaper. Looks like $1,550 would get you 3,500 watts (14 amps 240 VAC) and $2,000 would get you 5,500 watts (23 amps 240 VAC).
Ted
Never seen a 240 VAC dominant wired boat that small (under 50'). If you want to run it off a gas generator, it will need to be a 240 VAC, not the inverter style you were considering. It will likely be significantly heavier and noiser, but possibly cheaper. Looks like $1,550 would get you 3,500 watts (14 amps 240 VAC) and $2,000 would get you 5,500 watts (23 amps 240 VAC).
Ted
Can you imagine the noise and vibration from one of those in that boats cockpit?
Genset start switch maybe.
O C Diver
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I apologize for not having followed all of your other theads on the need for this generator. I think I read that the current onboard generator isn't working. I believe that I also read if you liked your upcoming trip, you were considering selling this boat and buying something else. If that's the case, bite the bullet and fix or replace your current generator. The hit you will take selling a relatively new boat with a dead generator will likely be more than squaring it away now, plus you get to use it on your trip.
Ted
Ted
Don't even think about it. I had a 4,000 watt, 240 V, propane fueled generator for home power outages. It was horribly noisy. Unless you can find a small 240V inverter generator, forgetaboutit.
David
Chris71
Member
The start button is for the gen set. My original desires were to take the boat all over the Carribean and I would like to feel comfortable with reliability of my systems. I don’t want to have to run my engines to charge the batteries that run the boat. The boat is an express and IMHO was designed to be a lake/ICW cruiser and the concept of system redundancy, except for the engines, was not a primary thought. Now, I am intending to go on this initial 3 week journey and see if I really like the solitude(a real question as it would be much better with a partner, but that the current situation and because of age I am going now, hopefully) and the journey. Should that stand, then when I come back, a better designed boat for my mission will be in my short term future, see other posts.
Thanks for all of your help.
Thanks for all of your help.
High Wire
Guru
How exactly are your shore power cords set up? In post #3 you say you have 50 amp but have 2 cords. That does not compute.
Since you have 240 and 120 VAC in your panel, I would guess you have a single 120/240v 50 amp cord. I can not think of a work-around to solve all of the 240V loads, especially since both battery chargers are 240V.
Since you have 240 and 120 VAC in your panel, I would guess you have a single 120/240v 50 amp cord. I can not think of a work-around to solve all of the 240V loads, especially since both battery chargers are 240V.
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