Current PNW cold snap - interior water line protection?

I am debating whether it's better to keep low-level heat going in the boat to keep water lines from freezing (via the small low-watt fan/heater and now a small space heater on low watts/low setting), or just drain the interior water lines completely. My boat in the water at the slip, and we do use the boat year-round. I'm not terribly excited about a space heater running unattended, but I do have eyes on the boat via a camera, and it shuts off during daylight hours.
Space heater does run straight for about 12 hours (750 watts) at night. Probably best and safest to drain the water completely... I know. How many of you are in a similar situation and running a space heater but not living aboard?

I’m using one of those oil filled electric units on low. I keep it in the shower below deck. If it does short it’s basically in a fiberglass container. I check it every day.

Draining the potable water lines would be good in this frigid NE wind; better would be blowing them out with compressed air or pumping potable antifreeze through them. Another concern is the raw water side of your engines' cooling system. Some heat in the engine room would be good for that.

As already mentioned, oil filled heaters are a good choice. If you're primarily concerned with plumbing in the engine room, an engine block heater is very safe and radiates heat well.

Something to remember, it takes very little heat to keep an in water boat above freezing. A standard 60 watt incandescent light bulb will keep a bathroom above freezing if you open the door under the sink and close the door to the bathroom. Also, a 60 watt bulb under the galley sink will keep the plumbing from freezing.

Ted

I have two in-wall style electric heaters that I imagine are running most nights right now. I can't wait to see the electric bill after this cold snap. I guess I'm not too concerned about a fire issue. UL has a tendency to be pretty strong on that issue.

I have been running 2 small heaters (1000w and 750w), both on a thermostat. They have been keeping things dry and warmed to about 50-55 throughout the boat.

Last night, I fired up the hydronic system set to 50 in 3 zones. I want the heat from the lines to keep their respective spaces warm, as the water lines are nearby. The boiler is in the lazarette with lots of stuff I don’t want frozen, such as the water maker and water heater, and it will keep that space warm. I will also be checking things more frequently during the cold snap.

Jhance: I have the same boat as you (as you know). I'm running a oil filled space heater 24/7 on my Camano in the engine room but I'm also a full time liveaboard so I'm constantly keeping an eye on things. IMHO don't use ceramic space heaters. Oil filled space heaters are the safest and have a more linear wattage draw. No "kicking" on and off. Just a steady draw.

One important thing that I learned this winter from being a full timer in Boston is that keeping the salon warm is just as important as the engine room. Obviously heat rises, but keeping the salon warm is VERY important for winter storage (or living). Lots of the heat from the salon in the Camano will make it's way down to the ER. I understand that you're only asking about boat storage but I still think my liveaboard knowledge may be relevant.

How cold are we talking? And for how long? You may be worrying over nothing....Another good Camano tip is to keep the lower galley cabinets and lower head cabinets OPEN. It's good to get more salon heat in there.

I would also also suggest buying a Mr Buddy propane heater. Can be a lifesaver.

I have a small elec heater on low that keeps the boat around 42F. I also have a warm air box next to the engine. Went down today and power must have been off on the dock for a while as it was about 34F inside. This is probably shaping up to be one of the coldest and snowiest February's ever. More on the way!

I have a dehumidifier/heater probably on the order of 200w keeps the lazerette and the two 50gal water tanks from freezing. The sheer volume of the tanks helps a lot.
In the engine compartment I’ve got a long “golden rod” about 3’ long. It’s a bit hotter than most being hard to hold onto. 300w.
Fwd in the head I’ve got two goldenrods about 18” and about 22” long. One on the left side of the Raritan head and the other onthe right. Probably 300w.

So I think I’ve got the whole boat covered w less than 1kw on 24/7 though.
Nothing on the boat is winterized.

I have my hydronic heat set at 50. I also have wolverine heaters on each main.

Unfortunately my ice make is on the enclosed but not heated back deck. Got one of those phone calls you never want to get. Water running off the boat and a pump running full time. Turned out one of the plastic feed lines in the ice maker froze and then got warm enough to thaw and drained the water tank. Today I was able to refill the water tank and locate the leak and check system. Tomorrows goal is to repair the broken line.

Note to self: next time it is going to drop to 17 degrees, drain the lines outside or put a heater out there.

The lowest temp prediction I can see for my boat (Vancouver harbour) is -7°C, 19.4°F. Vancouver has seen lower temps over extended cold snaps in the 33 winters I have had a boat in the water here. My successful regime consists of:
1-leave the water heater turned on - in the ER so provides warmth to the whole of the ER including engines.
2-leave the charge on - also in the ER
3- in the forecabin, heater on its lowest setting
4-in the aft cabin, heater on its lowest setting
I have seen ice on the water around my boat once or twice, but never thick ice.
I have never had any signs of freezing inside the boat.
My hydro bill will be above $50 (Cdn, so $30 US) per month for the winter.

Jason -

I am running a 0.65A heater/fan in the engine room and another in the galley with the head door open a crack and cabinet doors open. I needed to upgrade that program, though, when I found an icicle hanging from the galley faucet. It probably didn't help that, although I thought I had closed it, the galley roof vent was open, and that was allowing cold air in. Corrected that, moved the 0.65A heater to head, and small space heater in the galley. Also plugged engine room vents.

Low temps forecast to be 20F, maybe a little lower, with a 25 knot sustained NE wind. Cold for our standards, and that wind sucks the heat out of everything. Of course the worry is that if the power goes out, I am either draining the lines or on the boat running the Webasto! I just haven't studied the draining procedure... I assume there is a fitting in the engine room at a low point that I can disconnect.

Also if you can close off your ER vents that is quite helpful.

It depends on the water temp more than air temp. I liveaboard, so my boat doesn't get as cold. But I don't heat the engine room unless working there and it's well insulated from the rest of the boat. The coldest I ever measured in the bilge or other unheated space was 34°F. That was one winter in Nanaimo, BC. Night temps were about 0°F. During that time I spent some time away and during that time the dock experienced some power problems and the power had been off for 2 days. In the main cabin it was still 40°F when I returned. Sea water temp was around 50-55°F.

I leave on the electric boiler and the circulation pump for the hydronic system while i’m Gone. This keeps heat in all parts of the boat.

In Poulsbo, our boat has two Caframo electric heaters going, and a fairly large dehumidifier. Several cabinet doors and hatches open for circulation, and the engine room vents blocked. Large fuel and water tanks full.

No problems in the last two winters, but this cold snap has me hoping my cockpit shower (which I haven't yet figured how to drain completely) survives OK.

Oh damn, had not even thought about the cockpit shower. We never use it but I am sure it has water. I guess I will find out when the thaw comes.

On my Camano, I shut off the water input to the HW heater and drained it most of the way which also drained the higher HW lines after opening their faucets. My CW is all still on except I did try to drain the lines to the cockpit. We'll see if I failed but last year I did fine. I have an extreme heater in the engine room and a ceramic on the galley floor pointed at the open head with open cabinet door. I sit in ice a few days each winter. Got to believe your water temps in PNW are much better.

During the first cold winter in Seattle with our Camano I learned two lessons. Drain the cockpit shower. I didn't and the freezing water pushed the handheld nozzle off. That was the only damage. Drain the raw water anchor washdown. The filter cracked, but the seacock was closed so no danger of sinking. I kept three air dryers going and had no other problems.

RCook said:

In Poulsbo, our boat has two Caframo electric heaters going, and a fairly large dehumidifier. Several cabinet doors and hatches open for circulation, and the engine room vents blocked. Large fuel and water tanks full.

No problems in the last two winters, but this cold snap has me hoping my cockpit shower (which I haven't yet figured how to drain completely) survives OK.

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Richard, are you in the water at Poulsbo or hauled out?

MiltonP said:

On my Camano, I shut off the water input to the HW heater and drained it most of the way which also drained the higher HW lines after opening their faucets. My CW is all still on except I did try to drain the lines to the cockpit. We'll see if I failed but last year I did fine. I have an extreme heater in the engine room and a ceramic on the galley floor pointed at the open head with open cabinet door. I sit in ice a few days each winter. Got to believe your water temps in PNW are much better.

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Not sure what you mean by much better water temps, but Puget Sound is very cold especially in winter, below 50F. There is ice around my boat all this week. PS is quite cold, even in summer it rarely goes much above 50F.

Ken E. said:

Richard, are you in the water at Poulsbo or hauled out?

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In the water, Ken.

I have a Wolverine oil pan heater (200W) on the engine on 24/7. It keeps the engine room (with the vents blocked with foam) around 50 degrees and helps to fight off moisture caused corrosion and makes for easy starting.
I also use a dehumidifier in the galley draining overboard through the sink drain. I also run 2 electric heaters, one in the galley and one in the master forward, set on low power. This AM the boat temp in the pilothouse was 55 degrees. I am using around 10-12 amps on the AC power (30 amp service).
I have most of the cupboard doors open, and the door to the head open for air circulation.
Because we don't use the boat in the winter, I have, as an extra precaution, put RV antifreeze in the water lines, drained the water heater and water tank, and added the antifreeze to the anchor and stern (raw water) washdowns. Fuel tanks are full.
One year on my former boat, the cockpit shower nozzle split from freezing even with the antifreeze (probably didn't ensure that all the water was flushed out).
I also check on the boat more often in this weather (I am also prone to "overkill").
Regards,
Tom

I am with Lepke on this relying on seawater temps for protection from freezing.
With nearly 6 feet of both boats below sea level and all of the plumbing that I am aware of near or below sea level, I do not add heat when I am away during Winter cold blasts. I was pretty worried the first couple of years but when temps are around 18F as they are projected to be in this blast, I have never been able to find a temp below 40 anywhere on the boat.

Not saying I don't worry a little.... but perhaps worry less about freezing than I would about heaters running, even diesel furnaces which are on both boats. Quite often with the windy NE cold blasts here we lose power at the docks. I prefer to have minimal to no draw during those periods and am often 5 or more hours from the boats.

By cold, I mean water temps below 40 since that is when I give up on my reverse cycle heat. That happened around mid-January here. I am only concerned about the cockpit lines as far as air-temps go since I have no wash down for the anchor.

We use two calframo heaters:

#1 is a calframo low wattage “palli” engine room heater which kicks in below 40 degrees Fahrenheit and just provides enough heat to keep things safe below decks...

And

#2 a calframo adjustable heater on the floor in the galley which is adjustable and keeps the interior around 50 degrees farenheit when it is around 25f as it has been recently in our area. ( this is at a fairly low setting)

Works well to date and the main risk I see, is to ensure that if you have a power outage that you get to the boat and run the boat heater.

We also drain the cockpit shower for the winter....

The coldest I have ever seen the water in the Puget Sound is 48 degrees.

Well it varies of course from place to place. I don't drive around in my boat with a sea temp gauge but here is some info. And yes it does get below 48F in PS.
https://www.currentresults.com/Oceans/Temperature/washington-average-water-temperature.php

We're in Blaine and were looking that frigid northeaster right in the teeth. Temps in the low 20s/high teens and wind howling 30-40 mph for days on end.

No heat in the bilges/engine space. One small ceramic disc space heater in the aft cabin and an oil-filled radiant heater in the forward cabin. As I always did when living aboard my sailboat in Seattle, we use simple physics to keep the boat bone-dry. A small fan draws in cold, dry air at the stern, pressurizes the boat, and the warmed air, having absorbed water vapor as it was heated, is ejected out vents forward.

Have never drained water lines or added antifreeze. The only concern I would have would be in the event of a prolonged power outage as we depend upon shore power for those two heaters. When we're aboard the diesel stove and a couple of fans heat the entire boat nicely.

Sounds like your area will get most of the wind, but less snow that south of you. I hope to avoid the wind with all the big trees I have around. Our danger zone is ESE though and NE is not usually a big factor here. But we are in the red zone for 4-8 inches of more snow!