Communications While Docking

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menzies said:
Mark, not sure that helps answers the original poster's question?

We have a guy who has bought a new to them boat and wants to make sure that they communicate well while handling the boat. It is a FB vessel where he wil be on the FB and she on the aft deck and then dock.

I understand we have a good number of well experienced boaters on here. But we have an inexperienced boater asking for direction. And I feel that "showing off" what we experienced boaters do may not be the most helpful direction.

Not just a response to you, as others have responded similarly. But maybe this is not a case of showing how we "experts" handle it, but how best to smoothly introduce them to boat handling.

Maybe headsets are good for now, and they can adjust later.
Click to expand...

Yes; can't disagree with your statement. My point was that some boats are designed consistent with easy communication. Recall the many previous posters saying voice instructions can work well if the boat's design is consistent.
 
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Codger2 said:
There have been several mentioned in this thread. Make sure you get a "voice powered" one with BlueTooth if possible. With those, you just start talking and there are no buttons to push ....leaving your hands free.

Here's Sena's site again:

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle...MIj6r5uNab4AIVFMZkCh1_hABSEAYYBCABEgJdLPD_BwE
Click to expand...
The price is for 1, of course you need 2. Shipping to Oz shows as $40 USD, however many you buy.
I may check ebay here. They are a good idea. Just remember the old saying"When you are up to your ass in alligators, it`s hard to remember you got into the water to drain the swamp" (NOT intended as a political observation).
 
ranger42c said:
As others have said, advance planning, always. Then establish hand signals for all time, even if intending to use a headset or other electronic comms (which can crap out). Doesn't hurt to have a hailer, to yell at bozo dock hands.

Wifey is often out of sight when we're docking now, and we often can't hear each other when I'm on the bridge and the enclosure panels are closed... (although the hailer can sometimes help with that)... so we do use headsets (FWIW, SENA SPH10-10) more often these days. Sometimes that's about communicating when were doing other chores, too, like pumping out the holding tank when she's inside and I'm outside.

Useful to do an after-action analysis after each docking... or at least those where something seemed a bit amiss.

-Chris
Click to expand...

Chris,

Ya got things arse backwards.....

When docking, SHE should be on the bridge and YOU should be outside throwing the lines.

And with the holding tank, SHE should be outside when YOU'RE inside.

......
Yes, absolutely agree on headsets. Yelling just doesn't cut it. Wouldn't be without them, even though we do use hand signals occasionally.
 
While entering our very first lock with the Defever (on the Erie Canal), my wife was handling the lines while I was on the flybridge. We didn’t have headsets and I couldn’t see her, so I had to yell an audible which changed her entire plan for the lock as we were entering the gates. (My lousy planning). She was initially scared about not knowing what I meant and then frustrated at having to uncoil additional lines while we were in the lock, then royally pissed off at yours truly for the stream of orders being yelled from the FB.

So she started cussing me—and this is where it was good we didn’t have headsets, because, as she told me later, she was enraged and hurling every name in the book my way—but I couldn’t make any of it out over engine noise from us and other boats in the lock. But as we rose in the lock—and her language became even more colorful—she heard a very calm, professorial voice from above her: “Locking through can be accomplished much more easily if you were just to . . . .” Apparently, the lockmaster had heard a lot of her rant and she became as red-faced as this guy. :dance: We laugh about it now, but the headsets (we have the SP-10s) are stress-savers for us and really make an enormous difference on our boat. They’re also great at keeping up with one another when one of us goes below.

I do wish people who don’t use headsets wouldn’t look down their noses at people who do. Boats, crews and docking/locking situations are all different and if a crew works better together with electronic communication it has nothing to do with their seamanship or their choice of boats.
 
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Not sure anyone is looking down their nose but I do want to comment about docking and seamanship/communications.

Like docking without thrusters, docking without headsets is certainly doable and safe for some.

Its the equivalent discussion as about docking vessels in general between single handling or not and how to do things so others are not required at all....

Using or not using is somewhat a personal preference for some, more likely a good idea for many and an absolute necessity for some.

Generally I would say, they may make life easier for any vessel using 2 or more people on board to dock....but I have also have seen pushy people on the dock not in the communications circuit being counterproductive...so the captain still needs to deal with that. So boat handling skills still reign supreme in cases where you have to deal with that.
 
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Headsets can be Like other tools...
Better to have them and not need them than run into the odd situation where needed and you don't have them.
There can be real emergency situation in locks that need IMMEDIATE action.
Traveled w a couple where lock line got jammed in a cleat while going down... skipper quickly grabbed knife from helm and cut the line. It could have gotten ugly very quickly if not in sight.
 
Seevee said:
Chris,

Ya got things arse backwards.....

When docking, SHE should be on the bridge and YOU should be outside throwing the lines.

And with the holding tank, SHE should be outside when YOU'RE inside.
Click to expand...


I absolutely agree, ref docking. Lots of reasons, including reach. That said, she's unenthused. She can and sometimes will dock the boat... but I've not yet been able to talk her into doing that all that time. Or even most of the time.

Ref holding tank... can't think of any way to entice her to be the bubba at the pump-out fitting. She's quite happy to be below confirming the tank gauge eventually says empty, adding some rinse water, etc.

-Chris
 
Bacchus said:
Headsets can be Like other tools...
Better to have them and not need them than run into the odd situation where needed and you don't have them.
There can be real emergency situation in locks that need IMMEDIATE action.
Traveled w a couple where lock line got jammed in a cleat while going down... skipper quickly grabbed knife from helm and cut the line. It could have gotten ugly very quickly if not in sight.
Click to expand...

I haven't done huge locks, but I am never at the helm in locks anyway once tied up.

While I see perfect communications as superior..I believe that operating as if you don't need them as the goal, and have them as you suggest as a backup.

So my suggestion is if you use the A LOT...maybe time to sharpen the need not to.
 
psneeld said:
I haven't done huge locks, but I am never at the helm in locks anyway once tied up.

While I see perfect communications as superior..I believe that operating as if you don't need them as the goal, and have them as you suggest as a backup.

So my suggestion is if you use the A LOT...maybe time to sharpen the need not to.
Click to expand...

Whatever works for people is good. The headsets are an excellent way to learn docking/locking skills that hopefully become automatic over time. Beyond that, in some boats they’re a convenience; I have perfectly good legs but still use my car for trips to the store. On other boats where crew is regularly out of sight or earshot, they are more than a convenience.
 
ranger42c said:
I absolutely agree, ref docking. Lots of reasons, including reach. That said, she's unenthused. She can and sometimes will dock the boat... but I've not yet been able to talk her into doing that all that time. Or even most of the time.

Ref holding tank... can't think of any way to entice her to be the bubba at the pump-out fitting. She's quite happy to be below confirming the tank gauge eventually says empty, adding some rinse water, etc.

-Chris
Click to expand...

Chris,

Agreed, enticing her to be bubba probably won't work....

But putting her at the helm does more often work fine. Here's a few thoughts for starters:

First, get a headset, and a remote thruster(s) control. That's what I have.

Establish communication protocol.
For some of the communications we use:
One reverse, means put the power into reverse for a "one thousand one" or one full second in reverse and then back to idle.
Two reverse, means two seconds, etc.
One reverse plus, means one second in reverse with a small goose, rpm goes up to 1200 instead of 600.
One wheel port means turn the wheel to the port one turn.
etc. etc.

We practiced those so it became second nature to respond to each other and both knew what the boat would do.

For the most part, I'd position the boat prior to backing in or bowing in, then give her the helm.

We would ALWAYS brief the docking or locking, with a back up if it didn't work. Locking was always dirt simple and worked really well from either side.

Overtime, she developed the skill to tell when something needed to be done before I said anything, but she would say, I'm giving you one forward, or one bow thrust to port, and in some cases she didn't have to say a thing.

The most difficult was backing in against a wind, and occasionally it just couldn't be done (we couldn't do it), so plan B... fortunately rare.

We have a stern thruster so I would be in the cockpit and could tweak the stern over a matter of inches as we backed in and it often worked perfect.

We became good enough that we could do it without major damage or loss of a crew member.

=====
As a side note, I'm teaching my neighbor and his wife how to operate their 35ft twin IO, with thruster. The guy is a 40year Navy vet and his wife does a better job with the boat. Seems like women just have a finesse that us guys don't have, especially with tight maneuvering and docking. Not a generalization, but an observation I've seen many times. Often the wife never gets the chance. They are actually pretty good and occasionally worth keeping.
 
Seevee said:
But putting her at the helm does more often work fine. Here's a few thoughts for starters:
Click to expand...


Yeah... it's not that she can't... she just doesn't want to. And in general, ours is relatively easy to dock anyway including stern-to, good aft visibility, etc.

Every time we dock, I suggest she take the helm, but she only does it about 5% of the time. She knows how, and can do it well enough (although more practice wouldn't hurt).. she simply isn't willing, most times.

I keep trying... :)

-Chris
 
ranger42c said:
Yeah... it's not that she can't... she just doesn't want to. And in general, ours is relatively easy to dock anyway including stern-to, good aft visibility, etc.

Every time we dock, I suggest she take the helm, but she only does it about 5% of the time. She knows how, and can do it well enough (although more practice wouldn't hurt).. she simply isn't willing, most times.

I keep trying... :)

-Chris
Click to expand...

Chris,

I had that same issue with my first wife .....

Good points, and she may be perfectly happy handing lines and can do it well. If she can take the wheel more often enroute, that could help. If she sees other lady skippers, that could influence her.

When we crossed the gulf, we had three boats together and at one time, all the guys were sleeping and the lady skippers were at the helm. It was "ladies night out" and they had a lot of fun.
 
psneeld said:
Not sure anyone is looking down their nose but I do want to comment about docking and seamanship/communications.

Like docking without thrusters, docking without headsets is certainly doable and safe for some.

Its the equivalent discussion as about docking vessels in general between single handling or not and how to do things so others are not required at all....

Using or not using is somewhat a personal preference for some, more likely a good idea for many and an absolute necessity for some.

Generally I would say, they may make life easier for any vessel using 2 or more people on board to dock....but I have also have seen pushy people on the dock not in the communications circuit being counterproductive...so the captain still needs to deal with that. So boat handling skills still reign supreme in cases where you have to deal with that.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with the pushy dock hand. Occasionally they can be a pita. I've learned to hand them the line, or even a loop of the line and tell them to just put it over a cleat or piling. I want the bitter end in my hand to control what happens. They usually comply, but occasionally communicating with them doesn't work real well.
 
Seevee said:
Totally agree with the pushy dock hand. Occasionally they can be a pita. I've learned to hand them the line, or even a loop of the line and tell them to just put it over a cleat or piling. I want the bitter end in my hand to control what happens. They usually comply, but occasionally communicating with them doesn't work real well.
Click to expand...


We've sometimes found "communicating with them" isn't the issue; they sometimes hear fine but just don't do as they're asked.

"This line on that cleat, please." Line instead goes wherever the dock hand feels like at the time... which may or may not be "that cleat."

-Chris
 
We don't use headsets. Most of the time, we can hear each other. Admittedly, I have a deep voice that simply doesn't carry well. Our biggest challenges have been when she is on the bow and I am trying to yell into the wind. Hand signals work well when she is on the bow, but only when giving direction to the person at the helm. Hand signals don't work great for communicating from helm to bow when the person on the bow typically has their back to you.

The biggest challenge I have is line handlers communicating with and taking instruction from people on the dock. Or people on the dock attempting to shout instructions over mine.
 
Shrew said:
We don't use headsets. Most of the time, we can hear each other. Admittedly, I have a deep voice that simply doesn't carry well. Our biggest challenges have been when she is on the bow and I am trying to yell into the wind. Hand signals work well when she is on the bow, but only when giving direction to the person at the helm. Hand signals don't work great for communicating from helm to bow when the person on the bow typically has their back to you.

The biggest challenge I have is line handlers communicating with and taking instruction from people on the dock. Or people on the dock attempting to shout instructions over mine.
Click to expand...

Shrew,

Dock hands will often shout instructions, disrupting your and your mates thoughts. I try to emphasize to ignore them, and ignore the instructions I give to them.....

Any ideas on how to get that done? That's a weak area of mine....
 
Unwritten rule on our dock is that only one person on the boat calls the shots and no one offers "advice". They can let us know when a line is attached. If it is the same folks helping each time just speak to them and let them know that it is best to only have one voice. I have the same rule with guests on my boat, when docking I want the only communication to be between my wife and I as she calls the shots as i back in.
 
Being both Italian and married for over 50 years, we don' need no stinkin' headsets. Hand signals work just fine.
 
Crusty and I used the below during our trip to SE Alaska!!!
 

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So let me give you all my wife's take on the subject of her learning to slip the boat.

On our last boat, a Silverton 40 aft cabin, we did spend some time on a few quiet days having her take the boat out of the slip run down the fairway, turn and come back and reverse it in. However, apart from those few times, she has zero interest in doing so.

Her reasoning - you are always on board when we go out so you can handle it. If anything ever happend to you, stroke, fall and break a leg, get sick, trust me, I am not taking the time to run to the marina, come up the channel, slow down up the fairway, turn and back into the slip!

I will be on the VHF and or cell, make sure help is on the way and based on where I am I either drop the anchor and wait, or start motoring towards where they are coming from. If I need to get to a marina I will be running up the channel and dropping the hook off the fuel dock. If in the VERY remote case where no one is around to help, then they ain't at a marina I can get to either!

She has a point!
 
menzies,

Interesting..... I'd suspect you'd prefer she become more interested, and there's probably a way. Peer pressure is probably the greatest.

My wife learned a few things strictly because of peer pressure.
She learned how to scuba dive and couldn't swim. Barely can now, but all the couples were doing it, and she wasn't going to be left out.
She learned how to fly for the same reason, but developed an interest, when she had a few girlfriends that did, one a flight instructor.
She had a strong interest in boating, but developed her skills because the other ladies on the loop were doing the same.

Having her help run the boat on trips is a HUGE benefit to me. I can sleep, relax, look at the weather or just sightsee when she's at the controls.
 
Seevee said:
Having her help run the boat on trips is a HUGE benefit to me. I can sleep, relax, look at the weather or just sightsee when she's at the controls.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, she runs the boat, ICW, Gulf Stream, through the islands etc. etc. She just doesn't do the close quarter work, and doesn't care to. When she takes the helm she always asks the same question if I don't automatically tell her: "what do I have control of?" She wants to know if the AP and Syncs are on.

That's fine with me.
 
In our previous boat we did not need headsets as we were on the same level and he could see and hear me and I could see and hear him. In our KK42 he is in the pilot house about 10 feet higher and he cannot see or hear me. Hand signals don't work. Yelling doesn't work because he can't see where he is in relationship to the dock. We have a side tie and the next boat is only about 10 feet down the slip, so there is not a lot of room for error. We use ear-tec and they are great. I should note that we have been boating together for 35 years and in the old boat there was never any yelling, just a bit of quiet direction and conversation. It all depends on the type and configuration of the boat - there is not one simple answer.
 
Sena headsets

Hard to beat the Sena headsets. They are bluetooth and have a significant range, no wire going to a battery pack elsewhere, they stay on your ears and head, lightweight and waterproof. Makes docking much easier and much less entertainment for those on the dock watching.
 
This could not be better said. My husband usually finds that when other men are on the boat and want to help, they almost always "screw it up". He tells them to "sit over there and do what she says".
 
We love the Eartecs.
 
I've read several of the posts and see that there are experts among us that don't need any communication while docking/undocking.

That's great for them but the rest of us want to be able to communicate at those times. Let's hope for those experts, they never have a time where something unplanned or unexpected occurs.

We find there are also times, unplanned, or unexpected, that the headphones are extremely helpful. BTW, Cruising Solutions offers these and if you are a member of the AGLCA, there is a discount.

Where for us there has been a benefit is when 1 of us is driving and the other needs to go to a part of the boat where communication comes in handy.

Say an engine check. Maybe experts don't need to do that but we do them on a regular basis. 1 engine check I did I found 1 of the 2 on engine fuel filters was leaking. I called my mate who was driving to inform her there was an issue and just to hold the boat steady. I tried to tighten a bolt to fix the problem but when that didn't work, I had to shut the engine down. Without notifying her what was going on she would have had extreme anxiety when I shut the engine down and couldn't hold further communication on what was going on.

Another time when they come in handy, the mate has gone below for something, coffee, head, etc. We all know moving around the boat while underway is dangerous, so we try to limit that. While she is moving if something I need comes to mind, I can ask for it before she returns, limiting the number of trips, much safer.

Docking or undocking could be considered an easy task. The mate has learned that when docking, we bow in, her job is to get the mid-cleat line secured to the dock. With that secured, we are fast and can make other lines secure leisurely. Since we drive exclusively from the bridge, I can see if that line is secure. The opposite when we depart, so I can see that from the bridge, with that said, we wish we had them earlier in our boating and wouldn't now, cruise without them.

There are other times we've found them helpful as well. Use your imagination and you'll see they are a worthwhile investment in vessel safety.
 
cantal said:
Having just purchased a Marine Trader Tradewinds 38 trawler my wife and I are wondering about docking communication. I will be on the fly-bridge and she will be on deck. Any suggestions for making our communication clear, except for yelling louder?



I have 40 years sailing experience, and she has 25. We enjoyed racing and cruising our 36 foot sloop around the Great Lakes together these last 18 years. We just want to be prepared for the spring launch when we depart fully under power.
Click to expand...
 
Charlie,

We had good success with our phones with the headphones/mics plugged in. After a while we rarely use it. She negotiates with the marina Port or starboard tie, floating or fixed docks. Passes on the info. Often use Google to eyeball the layout if it’s a new marina. Any info on currents etc at the dock is shared.
 
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