Urine in a fiberglass tank

QQ - For a variety of reasons (wind, cold, repairs going on), we have been unable to pump out for 3 or four months. We have urine only in our fiberglass tank. Is it getting acidic or somehow damaging the tank sitting in there for so long?


Thanks.

No....especially if gelcoated.

When I cleaned out mine after 20 years of neglect, it looked cleaner and better than my hull sides.

Tom.B said:

QQ - For a variety of reasons (wind, cold, repairs going on), we have been unable to pump out for 3 or four months. We have urine only in our fiberglass tank. Is it getting acidic or somehow damaging the tank sitting in there for so long? Thanks.

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Two probable causes: 1. Urine isn't damaging the tank, but it can produce urine crystals called "struvites"...especially common in toilets that use fresh water. If the toilet uses salt water, sea water minerals AND struvites can block the pumpout hose or discharge fitting in the tank

2. a blocked tank vent. All tank vents have two primary functions: to provide an escape for air displaced by incoming contents and to provide a source of air to replace contents as they're drawn out. When air can't get out, the tank can become pressurized...when no air can be pulled in, the pumpout or overboard discharge pump pulls a vacuum that won't allow more than a gallon or two to be removed.

So first, make sure that flushing the toilet is forcing air out the tank vent. If it's not, use a screwdriver blade, ice pick--whatever works to scrape out the vent thru-hull (the most common location for a vent blockage). If there's a screen in it, knock it out...screens cause more problems than they solve or prevent.

If there's a filter in the vent line, it could be the blockage if it's ever gotten wet. Replace--or better yet, remove it.

If a blocked tank vent isn't the culprit, there have been several recent threads dealing with sludge and struvite buildup in tanks, discussiing which products work best.


--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Struvites are a significant constituent of kidney stones and form in waste tanks when the pH of the solution is basic. Because sea water had a pH of 8+, sea water flush toilets are more prone to struvite formation (and other precipitates) than fresh water. The cure is prevention, by keeping the pH of the tank acidic, which can be done with vinegar, or injection of a formaldehyde solution like San-X, which has the added benefit of killing e coli, should you care. And just FYI, but formaldehyde breaks down quickly in the environment, has the same toxicity as bleach, so don't drink bleach or San-X, and don't stick your nose into either bottle.

Tom, not sure if your using sea water flush or not, but if you're concerned about precipitates, dump a couple of gallons of white vinegar into the tank. As long as the pH is acidic, struvites won't form and if they have will slowly dissolve in a week acid solution.

Because sea water had a pH of 8+, sea water flush toilets are more prone to struvite formation (and other precipitates)...

Most "other precipitates" such as sea water calcium carbonate and salt are pretty much limited to systems that use sea water, but the high incidence of struvites in RV tanks and sanitation plumbing contradicts the idea struvites are more common in sea water toilets than in fresh. The pH level in the tank may play a part, but failure to use enough flush water plays a bigger one. A weekly dose of 1-2 cups of distilled white vinegar flushed all the way through to the tank, followed after 45-60 minutes by a quart of clean fresh water will prevent most buildup. White vinegar CAN also dissolve a buildup, but the vinegar would have to be replaced every hour for it to work, making it way too labor intensive.

SanX (nee TDX) or any other toxic chemical in the tank would make it impossible to use aerobic bio-active tank management to prevent odor 'cuz killing bacteria doesn't work.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

I wasn’t clear... SORRY! It isn’t that we are failing in attempts to pumpout... more that we were unable just to get to the pumpout dock due to scheduling. I was just making sure that decomposing urine isn’t messing up the tank. Sooooorryyyy.

Again, no. Without all the confusion.

No it will not fiberglass holding tanks are mint and built to stand up to waste no matter how acidic or harming you might think it is ,it will be fine.

Thanks Ya’ll!! Tomorrow looks like a perfect weather window to get to the pumpout dock!!

As long as the pumpout is back on from the low temps, we should be back on track! (And it’s only been 3 months, one of which we weren’t onboard much)

The hassle with putting poison into the waste is far beyond stink control.

A small marina that is not connected to a municipal sewer may have its septic system poisoned to the point that will require repair or replacement.

FF said:

The hassle with putting poison into the waste is far beyond stink control.

A small marina that is not connected to a municipal sewer may have its septic system poisoned to the point that will require repair or replacement.

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Pump out stations go to septic systems???

Yes, some do. Not all marinas have municipal sewer and don’t want to pay a hauling fee. Scary though, as boat waste is not the same as house waste.

PMF1984 said:

Yes, some do. Not all marinas have municipal sewer and don’t want to pay a hauling fee. Scary though, as boat waste is not the same as house waste.

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It would have to be a very, very large tank and field to handle public use, or pumped out very, very often. You need about 500 gallons of capacity per person using a septic system, so a tank and field to handle even a small marina would be an epic system. Love to see that system pass inspection....

Delfin said:

Pump out stations go to septic systems???

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Maybe, but our marina's pump doesn't go to a municipal sewer system... instead it's routed to the marina's in-ground holding tank... and then subsequently pumped out by a mobile service when necessary.

-Chris

ranger42c said:

Maybe, but our marina's pump doesn't go to a municipal sewer system... instead it's routed to the marina's in-ground holding tank... and then subsequently pumped out by a mobile service when necessary.

-Chris

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I think FF's concern was running bacteria killing chemicals through your marine head killing the bacteria in the septic tank, which is perfectly reasonable. However, any septic system that is sized to function as a septic system with anerobic and aerobic decomposition of organics (which takes weeks) for a few hundred people is completely impractical, so any such septic system in a marina would depend on those pumpouts, since it is very unlikely the system would be functioning normally anyway. Bottom line, the chemicals in your john wouldn't have much impact since the system wouldn't function as a septic system in the first place.

Most small marinas on inland lakes and rivers have septic tanks...my YC on Lake Lanier north of a Atlanta did (and most likely still does...I moved from Atlanta 17 years ago). Pumpouts aren't the only thing that go into it...the rest rooms and club house kitchen also do. The houseboat rental business on Lake Lanier Islands had a septic tank too and so did other small marinas. They're a lot more common than you think they are and because they do indeed function as septic tanks those places who have 'em are very strict about which holding tank products they'd accept...if the boat uses toxic chemicals, they won't pump it. Larger marinas have inground holding tanks that are serviced by pumper trumps. Some smaller city sewage treatment facilities won't even accept waste from pumper trucks that service marinas.



--Peggie

Greetings,
Re: Post #16. I really hope "pumper trumps" is NOT a political comment.

"Umm, hello Janet, yes RT Firefly is just over there. No, I'm sure it was just a typo.

Yes, I know, he does quite a few typo's".

Edit: my apologies Mr RT, it wasn't a typo after all. Very brave of the Headmistress I must say.

PMF1984 said:

Yes, some do. Not all marinas have municipal sewer and don’t want to pay a hauling fee. Scary though, as boat waste is not the same as house waste.

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No it's the not the same. The only thing that goes into holding tanks is toilet waste and a few bad tank product choices. But house waste also includes chemical cleaning products, whatever was rinsed out of any container before putting it in the trash, rinsed off shoes...whatever was spilled on anything that goes into the laundry...everything that goes down a sink drain.

(RT, some day you may figure out that there's a difference between having something to say and just having to say something.)

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

I had no idea that there was so much going on besides bacterial activity.
Vinegar treatment coming up for Knot Salted!
Thanks everyone.

What do you expect a single vinegar treatment to accomplish?


--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Fiberglass tank

You probably have a steel tube extending into the bottom of the tank that allows pump out. After awhile the urine corodedes the pipe and if it’s corroded away at the top, it won’t drain he tank.