Proper Radio Channel Usage

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
koliver said:
I have a 2007 Motorhome. Came with a CB radio. I have actually had it on once in 5 years, to call for a ride in 7 Feathers RV Park, where the Casino provides a bus from the RV sites to their own door. I can't think of any other reason to own a CB, since Burt Reynolds was calling "Breaker, Breaker".
Click to expand...

I think they use theirs for communicating, but I could be wrong.
 
rolomart3 said:
I believe that in the not so distance future, VHF radios will succumb to satellite cell phones and EPIRBs just like LORAN died with GPS.
Click to expand...


If a vessel is in need of emergency assistance RIGHT NOW, and doesn't know the phone number of "that boat right over there" -- and if hand- and light- and sound-signals don't seem to be working...

-Chris
 
My favorite is “over and out”. Sure sign on a newbie.
 
FootballFan said:
After reading the thread below about using CH 13 for passing I wanted to ask a question from a recent experience.

I have always used 16 to hail a marina or another boater, then when they answer move to a different channel.

Recently pulled into an area in South Florida, approaching the fuel dock and hailed the fuel dock on CH16.

Immediately - the response from CG was the message we have heard when someone is inappropriately using CH16. Was not directed at me specific - but the timing - felt like my hailing initiated.

The CG facility is really close to the marina I was going to - but wouldn't think that would matter.

Is my usage of CH 16 correct? or incorrect?

TY
Click to expand...

After much discussion I thought we might answer the question with the words from the FCC. "Calling coast stations. Call a coast station on its assigned channel. You may use Channel 16 when you do not know the assigned channel.". This may conflict with many experiences but it's at least what the FCC says on the subject, my two cents.
 
You make a very good point Chris. It is why for short range conditions VHF could survive. But it will not survive simply because that VHF functionality can easily be absorbed by a cell-phone or EPIRB like devices. Upon keying in the 911 button in such devices, signals would automatically go out via every available media including AIS with all the information necessary, to include a distressed vessel skipper's voice message briefing about the emergency situation. The location would be automatically reported. The distressed vessel would be automatically identified and highlighted in chart plotters, AIS devices and Coast Guard Centers. Then, fewer people would be monitoring VHF anymore. Insurance companies would be favoring the new equipment including short-range medium or VHF capability over just VHF radio.



It is simply just the case of progress providing a more reliable medium to communicate when reacting to emergencies. How long before it happens? A lot less than past experience indicates due to the dramatic contraption of time frames in deploying new technology experienced during the last few decades.


If the folks at the vessel close by did not care much to respond to flares and sound signals, what makes one expect that they will even have their VHF radio on, properly squelched to hear you, and loud enough to be herd over the sounds of engines and loud music? How does one prove when using VHF that someone refused to render assistance when they were close by, could do so and were supposed to do so?


Then of course is the fear that the alleged vessel-in-distress is just trying to lure in a wealthy yacht owner to hijack or rob it.


I do not know when but I do know that the replacement of VHF radio will be a superior and safer capability to deal with emergencies. We boaters just have to make sure that the replacement equipment costs approximately what VHF radio costs us. If it costs too much, we'll keep monitoring channel 16!
 
I don't know where to start.
Wow! So many of the respondents to this post need to go and take a maritime radio course.
I'm sorry to have to tell you that you have NO idea how a marine radio and marine radio protocol works in this century.
I'm in Canada but it can't possibly be that much different in the US.
First, you can't raise that commercial vessel on 16 because they aren't there and don't have to monitor it. They monitor their working channels. Dates back over a decade.
Second, GET your MMSI number and program it into your radio. Now you can use your DSC function of your radio.
Three, with DSC you can simply push a single button on your radio and every boat out there in radio land, whether they are on 16 or not, even if they are transmitting, they will get an obnoxious alarm telling them you are having a mayday. Your position shows up as a bright, special marker on their radar, on their chart plotter, on their AIS, on the face of their radio, and the coast guard gets to know about it too. All the above now switch to 16 to rescue you.
Fourth, oops, you have to have your gps wired to your radio so they know your position or your radio transmits the last position you manually set in it. You did enter one within the last 4 hours didn't you?
Fifth, if you have an AIS or a smart phone or computer/tablet with data access, you can look at the screen and read their MMSI number from their AIS signal and you use your DSC feature of your radio to send a radio call to that specific boat. Their radio goes into alarm telling them someone is calling them. They acknowledge the call and their radio clicks itself to the working channel you chose and you chat with them.

That's all I'm going to type tonight. There are a few more steps in some of this but when you RETAKE YOUR RADIO COURSE you should learn more.

Does this sound like a rant? Sorry. Your VHF radio is lightyears ahead of the pipe dreams some of you are suggesting to replace it.
 
rolomart3.... you realize what you describe is exactly how the GMDSS system currently in place is supposed to work?



GregS...lots of your info is how it should be (to a point).


According to studies of small recreational vessels.... most DSC radios are unregistered or are not hooked to GPS. As far as using DSC radios to make specific ship calls...most are so cumbersome to use it either never gets used or very limited to small groups f individuals. Also, there are plenty of boats out there without DSC radios. AIS is also scarce even on small commercial vessels.
 
rolomart3 said:
But it will not survive simply because that VHF functionality can easily be absorbed by a cell-phone or EPIRB like devices. Upon keying in the 911 button in such devices, signals would automatically go out via every available media including AIS with all the information necessary, to include a distressed vessel skipper's voice message briefing about the emergency situation.
Click to expand...


Sounds good on paper, but...

Stuffing a VHF radio and an AIS transmitter... maybe even sat xmtr and HF/SSB :)... into the size of a smartphone... easily carried in a pocket... probably isn't on the near horizon I guess.

Yes, "that boat right over there" might not have its radio on, or tuned to 16, or may be over-squelched... but that doesn't mean a hail isn't worth trying in an emergency situation. Might be "that other boat around the corner" is the one that really answers...

All those other emergency signals are sort of them same: you're at the mercy of the other guy. Yeah, well, that's kind the way emergencies play out sometimes... so having the ability to signal in many different ways is better than not.

-Chris
 
ranger42c said:
Sounds good on paper, but...

Stuffing a VHF radio and an AIS transmitter... maybe even sat xmtr and HF/SSB :)... into the size of a smartphone... easily carried in a pocket... probably isn't on the near horizon I guess.

Yes, "that boat right over there" might not have its radio on, or tuned to 16, or may be over-squelched... but that doesn't mean a hail isn't worth trying in an emergency situation. Might be "that other boat around the corner" is the one that really answers...

All those other emergency signals are sort of them same: you're at the mercy of the other guy. Yeah, well, that's kind the way emergencies play out sometimes... so having the ability to signal in many different ways is better than not.

-Chris
Click to expand...

Chris, in populated areas..even the old system of pre-DSC radios worked pretty well.

Out of thousands of SAR cases I was involved with, often a good sam would be the key component in resolving them Either the actual rescue of key info leading to the conclusion.
 
menzies said:
It's a US one as well!
Click to expand...

The FCC recognizes it as a port operations channel limited to one watt where the Canadians designate it as a ship movement and navigation channel as well as port operations also one watt. Those are basically the same thing.
 
Last edited:
psneeld said:
Chris, in populated areas..even the old system of pre-DSC radios worked pretty well.

Out of thousands of SAR cases I was involved with, often a good sam would be the key component in resolving them Either the actual rescue of key info leading to the conclusion.
Click to expand...


Yep, that's what I'd have expected. You know we hear a lot of emergency and semi-emergency (?) VHF calls around this area... and it's pretty common that another boat "right over there" somewhere chips in with whatever help they can offer.

And I guess we've only heard the actual DSC alarm a handful of times over the last 15 years or so... More often, it's just a voice call. Or a Pan-Pan from Sector Bal'mer (now called "National Capital Region" I guess).

For that matter, even when we've received the DSC alarm those few times, I can't recall ever getting any location data along with the alarm. Might have happened once or twice in my own early days with these radios, while I yutzed around with the menus to look for associated locational data... but I really don't remember coordinates ever being available.

-Chris
 
ranger42c said:
Sounds good on paper, but...

Stuffing a VHF radio and an AIS transmitter... maybe even sat xmtr and HF/SSB :)... into the size of a smartphone... easily carried in a pocket... probably isn't on the near horizon I guess.

-Chris
Click to expand...


Oh Chris but it is already here. In fact, a cell phone has the electronics equivalent of more than two VHF radios, operating simultaneously, no push to talk. Have you seen how small some of those clam-shell cell-phones are? Their miniaturization is limited primarily by the size of the keypad and the screen, not the electronic functionality inside. In addition to full duplex transceiver capability, each cell-phone includes a computer to automatically engage the tower (an automatic channel 16) and manage seamless transfer from tower to tower.



But here is the clincher that support my position: It is cheaper to buy, install, service and operate a cell-phone transponder in a drone than in a cell-phone tower!!!!!!!

Drones, a primary and a backup, would operate in selected bodies of water and 20 miles or so out in the coastline areas by going in circles and every 4 hours returning to base when relieved by another pair of drones. Coast Guard personnel could post guard duty from their home. Only the rescue helicopter crews would have to be in standby at the CG centers--Beyond 100 miles from the coast line EPIRB and the satellite would be the order of business.



Now imagine waterproof floating cell-phones that could be within range of a drone cell-tower.




  • Instead of 30 miles of range, it would have 100 miles.
  • Instead of push-to-talk, just talk.
  • No contact channel like channel 16 would be required because instead of several dozen channel, the cell-phone transponder can handle 10 of thousands of simultaneous calls.
  • Instead of one radio per vessel, one cell-phone per life vest. What good is your boat-mounted VHF radio if the boat sank?


So, I stand by my statement and in defense of all the boaters out there, no they do not need the safety course or a communication course. They already know all the procedures as some of them have been boating for decades. Besides, all these radio procedures will go out the waste side as soon as the drone- cell-tower or something equeivalent begin to show up. Should we wait until the Chinese start doing it or we really intend to keep America First?



For the moment, I suggest that you contact the marine towing services and ask them which modality is most frequently used to reach them when requesting assistance, VHF radio or cell-phone? You may be surprised by their answer.



Cheers,
 
rolomart3 said:
Oh Chris but it is already here. In fact, a cell phone has the electronics equivalent of more than two VHF radios, operating simultaneously, no push to talk.
Click to expand...

Adding that whole VHF frequency range thing would be a big deal... as is 25W fixed/5W handheld power compared to cell phones. Let me know when you find one that can transmit in both cell and VHF frequencies, latter at VHF power ranges. I can do without sat freqs. :)

There's a reason a handheld 5W VHF is the size it is. There's also a reason why a fixed 25W VHF is a lot larger. And you'll remember both of those are significantly larger than a smartphone, let alone a flip phone.

There's maybe a way to solve that: store/forward from cell towers -- when in range of a cell tower. Don't hear anyone making any moves in that direction. And we are occasionally NOT in range of a cell tower, which sorta means emergency service would be blanked out in those regions.

Anyway, not holding my breath...

Wouldn't be bad, though, to have everything all in one and in my shirt pocket. :)

I do know the answer, at least for around here. Both BoatUS and SeaTow get more calls on cell than on VHF. But the ones they do get on VHF are usually those where a cellphone didn't work, for whatever reason. Probably don't want to strand those folks... and any given day, "those folks" could be different people, depending on where they are relative to cell towers around here.

-Chris
 
Last edited:
rolomart3 said:
Oh Chris but it is already here. In fact, a cell phone has the electronics equivalent of more than two VHF radios, operating simultaneously, no push to talk. Have you seen how small some of those clam-shell cell-phones are? Their miniaturization is limited primarily by the size of the keypad and the screen, not the electronic functionality inside. In addition to full duplex transceiver capability, each cell-phone includes a computer to automatically engage the tower (an automatic channel 16) and manage seamless transfer from tower to tower.



But here is the clincher that support my position: It is cheaper to buy, install, service and operate a cell-phone transponder in a drone than in a cell-phone tower!!!!!!!

Drones, a primary and a backup, would operate in selected bodies of water and 20 miles or so out in the coastline areas by going in circles and every 4 hours returning to base when relieved by another pair of drones. Coast Guard personnel could post guard duty from their home. Only the rescue helicopter crews would have to be in standby at the CG centers--Beyond 100 miles from the coast line EPIRB and the satellite would be the order of business.



Now imagine waterproof floating cell-phones that could be within range of a drone cell-tower.




  • Instead of 30 miles of range, it would have 100 miles.
  • Instead of push-to-talk, just talk.
  • No contact channel like channel 16 would be required because instead of several dozen channel, the cell-phone transponder can handle 10 of thousands of simultaneous calls.
  • Instead of one radio per vessel, one cell-phone per life vest. What good is your boat-mounted VHF radio if the boat sank?


So, I stand by my statement and in defense of all the boaters out there, no they do not need the safety course or a communication course. They already know all the procedures as some of them have been boating for decades. Besides, all these radio procedures will go out the waste side as soon as the drone- cell-tower or something equeivalent begin to show up. Should we wait until the Chinese start doing it or we really intend to keep America First?



For the moment, I suggest that you contact the marine towing services and ask them which modality is most frequently used to reach them when requesting assistance, VHF radio or cell-phone? You may be surprised by their answer.



Cheers,
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be suprised because I was an assistance tower for 15 years, and USCG operational for 20.

While your theories may well come true, satellite communications for big ships have been available for decades yet vhf radios are still used quite frequently in coastal and port operations.

Until some sort of vessel ID transmitter is mandatory, how do you propose singular comms that would be any different than current vhf?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
Lehman sp120 oil consumption
Replies
19
Views
1K
ronobrien
R
slowgoesit
PNW to Mexico, Panama Canal, and Florida, on our way at last!
8 9 10
Replies
284
Views
30K
slowgoesit
slowgoesit
C
Thoughts on my “post Loop” idea?
Replies
13
Views
1K
Capt. Rodbone
C
slowgoesit
Loss of SV Rum Truffle, Bahia del Sol bar, El Salvador
2
Replies
45
Views
5K
slowgoesit
slowgoesit
Adopo
Stability and righting ability
Replies
19
Views
3K
Hippocampus
H

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom