Partially Submerged

I am looking at a 1980's vintage trawler. The broker informed me that the boat was partially submerged, up to the engine room about 4 years ago after it broke off it's mooring. The trawler appears to be in very good overall condition, the Cat 3208 was rebuilt, genset was replaced and I am told the boat was completely re-wired. I was told the owner operated the boat for two years following the grounding with no related issues.
Has anyone had any experience with recovering a boat after being submerged in salt water? Should I be concerned? Besides performing a full survey on the boat and engine are there any other checks I can conduct to ensure I won't have problems in the future? Or should I just walk away?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Mike

What discount on price from others you see listed?

I'd check that it has been completely rewired. 30-40 year old wiring should be fairly obvious.
Check how well the hull repairs have been done as well. It must have been damaged to allow water intrusion.

If it has all been repaired properly, I'd be willing to buy at less the average market price.

Was it declared a total loss by the insurance company? If so, it might make it more difficult to insure. Give the surveyor as much details of the sinking and repair work as you can. They can put a bit more attention to ensure repairs were done right and nothing is deteriorating prematurely.

I can't find any direct comparison to this model and year trawler but from what comparisons I can make it seems to be average to slightly less than average asking price for her.

Mike. Getting insurance for what is essentially a sunk boat may be your biggest issue. If this is disclosed in the application process, then if you get insurance, great. But don’t hide it because if something goes wrong big time, insurance will investigate the history and deny coverage.

I have brought drowned whale watching boats to life

What boat is this, Rawson or what? Also what exactly happened to this boat? How was it repaired? Send pics of the repairs.

I own a whale watch company and look for drowned boats lol but it is very tricky and sometimes can cost way more than what it looks like. I need more info to help.

Capt. Gutch

907-321-2853 you're more than welcome to call me too for questions. Sounds like a big decision. I have grown up commercial fishing and installed more engines and gears than I care to think about.

Capt Mike said:

I can't find any direct comparison to this model and year trawler but from what comparisons I can make it seems to be average to slightly less than average asking price for her.

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Then surely you should consider those other comparative boats that are the same price and have not been sunk?

Or are you thinking that the post-sinking upgrades make her a better buy?

I hadn't considered the insurance angle. How would I know if it was declared a total loss or if it will be a challenge to insure? I guess I can call my current insurance broker and ask, but outside of that is there another way of knowing a boat's history? Like a CARFAX for boats?

I think the engine rebuild, new genet and other upgrades are certainly worth considering. The rest of the trawler is in very good condition as well, seems the previous owner put a lot of money into maintenance and upgrades.

Boats don't have salvage titles like cars, particularly USCG documented vessels. I would confirm that the entire wiring was redone including all engine harnesses. That is the thing that can plague you forever if it got seawater in it.


Then if it is in good condition for its model and age and it is priced very competitively against others without its history then with a good survey I would go ahead. It is the survey that will determine insureability, not previous water damage.


David

For an 80ish sunken trawler, regardless of what was rebuilt is NOT an expensive boat. I would guess that his boat is selling for $20K TOPS, probably a lot less. So, insurance is not a issue, just don't insure it... not worth it.

But I'd be absolutely SURE anything below were it flooded was new or rebuilt. New writing, hoses, and anything electrical for sure.

It isn't mentioned how big and that could make a difference, so because most trawlers are in the 35 to 45 foot range, I'd expect it to be the same, unless the OP says otherwise. Also, no mention of the make, which could make a difference.

And to be SURE the damage was repaired and everything below the "flood" level was replaced could cost a large percentage of what the boat is worth.

For "me", I wouldn't even spend the time looking at it... just WAY too many negative with a ton of much better boats out there.

Consider making the sale contingent on the boat being insurable by a reputable insurer without loading for the history of sinking.

On the insurance, Hull replacement or damage to your vessel is not the issue. It is liability (eg broken steering control sends your 30k trawler into the side of docked Nordhavn 63.). That’ll be a big bill.

Price-wise, I'd start at about half the asking prices of similar boats and work downward from there. I know of a couple brought-back-from-dead boats that were a continuum of problems later. For me, I'd walk and not deal with damaged goods.

Mark P said:

On the insurance, Hull replacement or damage to your vessel is not the issue. It is liability (eg broken steering control sends your 30k trawler into the side of docked Nordhavn 63.). That’ll be a big bill.

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You can pick up liability pretty cheap.... and for a boat like this it would be a must.

Capt Mike,

I just gotta ask.....

You have a 2000 Mainship which is a NICE boat. What the heck is the appeal to a much older boat with major damage history?

Seevee said:

For an 80ish sunken trawler, regardless of what was rebuilt is NOT an expensive boat. I would guess that his boat is selling for $20K TOPS, probably a lot less. So, insurance is not a issue, just don't insure it... not worth it.

But I'd be absolutely SURE anything below were it flooded was new or rebuilt. New writing, hoses, and anything electrical for sure.

It isn't mentioned how big and that could make a difference, so because most trawlers are in the 35 to 45 foot range, I'd expect it to be the same, unless the OP says otherwise. Also, no mention of the make, which could make a difference.

And to be SURE the damage was repaired and everything below the "flood" level was replaced could cost a large percentage of what the boat is worth.

For "me", I wouldn't even spend the time looking at it... just WAY too many negative with a ton of much better boats out there.

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AND not only insurance will be hard to get, it will be very hard for you to re-sell.
This boat pretty much has no value, since the risk in unknown, yet a boat this age in prefect condition is worth only so much.

The fact that you are still considering it as "just less than average value" tells me you do not understand the risks.

These kind of deals ONLY work for the owner at the time of the incident, because they already have money sunk (figuratively) in the boat.

You will not regret walking, no running away.

I guess i will be one of the opposing opinions to most of the posts.


If the following statements are true I would consider the boat:


All motors, engines, wiring, electrical components, were replaced and now have low hours.
If there was no water damage to be found.. anywhere.
If there where no strange squeaks, smells, odors, of signs of corrosion.
If insurance coverage wasn't an issue.
If it was attractively priced to other comps
It was a good value and i wasn't looking to sell it anytime soon.


Why not? if it has good history AFTER the repairs it shouldn't be any problem.
Some view damaged boats like a potential spouse that has been around the block a few times and has a lot of baggage.. there not..



HOLLYWOOD

the engine wasn't replaced. It was rebuilt. that could mean almost anything. New mains, valves, rings would qualify as a rebuild. New starter, alternator, wiring harness would not. So you may have an engine and transmission with significant internal corrosion.

Wouldn't bother me if the asking price was substantially less than the average selling price of similar boats but it doesn't appear to be. I think I'd be tempted to lowball it.

Capt Mike said:

I hadn't considered the insurance angle. How would I know if it was declared a total loss or if it will be a challenge to insure? I guess I can call my current insurance broker and ask, but outside of that is there another way of knowing a boat's history? Like a CARFAX for boats?

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Start by looking for the Hull Identification Number on the top right of the transom. Can't find it? then it is a junk boat.

On the other hand, why waste your time. Look for something that hasn't been under water.

If - assuming you pay cash, the boat is not material to your overall financial well being, structural, mechanical and electrical systems check out, cosmetically it looks good, current state of upkeep is decent and your significant other likes the vessel - go for it.

Many in fact use the above criteria for a boat that has not "sunk".

Capt Mike said:

I am looking at a 1980's vintage trawler. The broker informed me that the boat was partially submerged, up to the engine room about 4 years ago after it broke off it's mooring. The trawler appears to be in very good overall condition, the Cat 3208 was rebuilt, genset was replaced and I am told the boat was completely re-wired. I was told the owner operated the boat for two years following the grounding with no related issues.

Mike

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Seems to me you should be able to confirm a lot of what broker has represented.

Cat 3208's are good engines and there seem to be plenty of rebuilds available for not insurmountable $ if need be.

We briefly looked at a 36 Marine Trader Europa that had a similar sinking experience. Engine had been "pickled" but not much more was done. So it would need a lot of what you describe has been done to the boat you are looking at. Cosmetically the boat was in great shape with lots of attractive features. At an asking price of 10K it was interesting but more than we were willing to take on.

Separately I had a sailboat that took on water above the floorboards. Water got into the transmission but not the engine - multiple oil changes later that was good as new. Starter got wet but worked fine. The only thing we wound up having to replace was the fresh water system pump. And we cleaned everything out of the lockers and fresh water washed all that got salt water on it. We never had any problems for years afterwards. And the boat seemed to sail faster after cleaning out all the junk we never used...

Any used boat comes with unknowns.

If water damaged equipment, wiring was replaced and hull breach repaired, and done right, this could be a net positive. A fresh gennie is always nice in an older boat as they tend to be problematic with age. Same with the Cat engine.

It all depends on what was actually done, and whether it was done right.

Since present owner owned the boat at the time, he should be able to go into detail about what happened and what was done in recovery and repair. Should be able to produce invoices. No invoices, things look shady.

Surveyor should be briefed on all details and then will be primed to do a good inspection. Wiring is a big concern as much goes from ER to other parts of the boat and is very difficult to replace through all the chases. Tempting to cut off wet sections and splice new with old, and that can be problems.

It may have been handled through insurance and there might have been no skimping. But it sure is tempting to skimp and pocket the ins money.

And what about woodwork, soft goods, insulation, AC systems, etc. What was damaged and what were the recovery steps?

Done right, boat could be better than prior.

Does owner have insurance on it now?

The appeal of a bigger boat to fit more stuff is too much to resist? Seriously, I love my Mainship Pilot but it is a great day boat and not a good boat for a trip several days long with the family.

Capt Mike said:

The appeal of a bigger boat to fit more stuff is too much to resist? Seriously, I love my Mainship Pilot but it is a great day boat and not a good boat for a trip several days long with the family.

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Capt Mike,

Sounds reasonable... BUT an old boat that has been partially sunk is really worthless, I don't care what you say. You'd be better off with an old boat that someone took TLC with even if it cost more. There are a few boats that have a value of zero... perhaps negative. And the one your looking at is close.

IF you buy it, pull the good stuff out, trash the hull, sell the stuff and go get a nice boat.

There's nothing worse than having a problem boat, and that's what you're looking at.

With so many good, floating boats available out there, why even consider buying someone's partially sunken boat?

I can't imagine all the financial headaches and potential problems lurking around every corner. That's not a way to relax on a boat, IMO.

Some salvaged boats are a great possibility, but very few.

Essentially, it can be a near new boat if stripped to the bare hull and cabin and brought back from there.

Obviously the price should reflect near new boat costs as that's what you might have....less the cost of building a shell.

If only a partial rebuild, only the particular boat can tell the true story and possible future.

Are partially sunk boats a good possibility? In my mind the wind up being a great deal or a bad deal....not much in between because you may never know all the details.

With everything that can go wrong with any boat why add an unnecessary potential additional risk on a salvaged boat? What you may save on the price will likely be lost when you resell her. Personally I would continue looking for a well kept boat. Just my opinion.

John

There are no absolutes.

Some partially sunk boats with a good pedigree of repairs make people money when they sell them.

Yes its a tiny market but so are one off builds that go for a handsome profit to a terrible loss.

One huge factor is how is the new owner going to use the boat and for how long.